Ybodonk wrote:
Furthermore i do believe the peloton in general are way cleaner. In the 90's and 00's you would never ever see youngsters from 19-23 competing at the highest level. There are so many youngsters now. Which is awesome, since we will have favourites and stars for way more years. Earlier a "young" rider was considired at the age of 27. I like to believe that the general jump from youth racing to the pro-peloton is now a smaller gap - hence less doping compared to before. But no doubt that there still is a lot of dope circulating, especially within Sky. They are turning almost every rider to a potential GT winner.
Are you sure that it is this way around? I rather believe that it easier for youngsters to do the same doping as the pros, therefore they are faster up there. (In other words, pro riders have reduced their doping, amateur riders have improved their doping.)
Thats an interesting point of view. Im not sure of anything, since we only can speculate. But i will definately have this argument in my thought process.
Some of the substances you find in those supplements are not even listed on the packaging at times. They have apparently found banned substances in some supplement products, even in as basic products as Whey if I remember correctly. So if it is not driven by the industry itself as a whole it can be driven by the competition between business in the industry.
Edited by Malkael on 08-07-2013 18:25
Ybodonk wrote:
Furthermore i do believe the peloton in general are way cleaner. In the 90's and 00's you would never ever see youngsters from 19-23 competing at the highest level. There are so many youngsters now. Which is awesome, since we will have favourites and stars for way more years. Earlier a "young" rider was considired at the age of 27. I like to believe that the general jump from youth racing to the pro-peloton is now a smaller gap - hence less doping compared to before. But no doubt that there still is a lot of dope circulating, especially within Sky. They are turning almost every rider to a potential GT winner.
I agree with this point as a general trend, but only as a general trend. And I'll tell you why.
Back in 2007 I heard quite a few people make that exact same argument as to why the peloton must be cleaner. The example of the youngster they used to 'prove' everything was cleaner? Riccò
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"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
Malkael wrote:
Some of the substances you find in those supplements are not even listed on the packaging at times. They have apparently found banned substances in some supplement products, even in as basic products as Whey if I remember correctly. So if it is not driven by the industry itself as a whole it can be driven by the competition between business in the industry.
In DK especially, all supplements version are ultra light compared to US in particular. We have extremely high control with whats in the supplements, therefore they also "works" a bit less compared to some other europe countries. And in particual US. Pro-hormones are legal, and some supplements has pro-hormones in them. Its basically steroids.
But yes there is shady substances in many of these things in most countries
Ybodonk wrote:
Furthermore i do believe the peloton in general are way cleaner. In the 90's and 00's you would never ever see youngsters from 19-23 competing at the highest level. There are so many youngsters now. Which is awesome, since we will have favourites and stars for way more years. Earlier a "young" rider was considired at the age of 27. I like to believe that the general jump from youth racing to the pro-peloton is now a smaller gap - hence less doping compared to before. But no doubt that there still is a lot of dope circulating, especially within Sky. They are turning almost every rider to a potential GT winner.
I agree with this point as a general trend, but only as a general trend. And I'll tell you why.
Back in 2007 I heard quite a few people make that exact same argument as to why the peloton must be cleaner. The example of the youngster they used to 'prove' everything was cleaner? Riccò
Yes we are on the same boat, since I also said "in general".
Well Ricco was 26 at that time right? He was one of a kind, and i actually miss him. History proved he was no worse than any others in those years, and yet he pays the highest price (12 year ban) He Reminded me of pantani. But there was not a whole bunch of Ricco's if you know what I mean? Today we have Sagan, Betancour (my new favourite, the new iban mayo ), Majka, Niemic, Kwiatkowski, Quintana, Talansky, Dombrowski, Pinot, Rolland, Bardet, Van Poppel and probably a lot i dont remember right now.
Ybodonk wrote:
Furthermore i do believe the peloton in general are way cleaner. In the 90's and 00's you would never ever see youngsters from 19-23 competing at the highest level. There are so many youngsters now. Which is awesome, since we will have favourites and stars for way more years. Earlier a "young" rider was considired at the age of 27. I like to believe that the general jump from youth racing to the pro-peloton is now a smaller gap - hence less doping compared to before. But no doubt that there still is a lot of dope circulating, especially within Sky. They are turning almost every rider to a potential GT winner.
I agree with this point as a general trend, but only as a general trend. And I'll tell you why.
Back in 2007 I heard quite a few people make that exact same argument as to why the peloton must be cleaner. The example of the youngster they used to 'prove' everything was cleaner? Riccò
Yes we are on the same boat, since I also said "in general".
Well Ricco was 26 at that time right? He was one of a kind, and i actually miss him. History proved he was no worse than any others in those years, and yet he pays the highest price (12 year ban) He Reminded me of pantani. But there was not a whole bunch of Ricco's if you know what I mean? Today we have Sagan, Betancour (my new favourite, the new iban mayo ), Majka, Niemic, Kwiatkowski, Quintana, Talansky, Dombrowski, Pinot, Rolland, Bardet, Van Poppel and probably a lot i dont remember right now.
He is 33 actually. Just having more freedom this year to ride for own results.
And I can`t say Ricco was just like many others. He was more extreme I think and the 12 year ban is the best for himself in especially.
Ybodonk wrote:
Furthermore i do believe the peloton in general are way cleaner. In the 90's and 00's you would never ever see youngsters from 19-23 competing at the highest level. There are so many youngsters now. Which is awesome, since we will have favourites and stars for way more years. Earlier a "young" rider was considired at the age of 27. I like to believe that the general jump from youth racing to the pro-peloton is now a smaller gap - hence less doping compared to before. But no doubt that there still is a lot of dope circulating, especially within Sky. They are turning almost every rider to a potential GT winner.
I agree with this point as a general trend, but only as a general trend. And I'll tell you why.
Back in 2007 I heard quite a few people make that exact same argument as to why the peloton must be cleaner. The example of the youngster they used to 'prove' everything was cleaner? Riccò
Yes we are on the same boat, since I also said "in general".
Well Ricco was 26 at that time right? He was one of a kind, and i actually miss him. History proved he was no worse than any others in those years, and yet he pays the highest price (12 year ban) He Reminded me of pantani. But there was not a whole bunch of Ricco's if you know what I mean? Today we have Sagan, Betancour (my new favourite, the new iban mayo ), Majka, Niemic, Kwiatkowski, Quintana, Talansky, Dombrowski, Pinot, Rolland, Bardet, Van Poppel and probably a lot i dont remember right now.
He is 33 actually. Just having more freedom this year to ride for own results.
And I can`t say Ricco was just like many others. He was more extreme I think and the 12 year ban is the best for himself in especially.
He did nearly kill himself if I remember correctly. So a 12 year ban that effectively ends his career was probably best.
Ybodonk wrote:
Well Ricco was 26 at that time right?
23
Ybodonk wrote:
He was one of a kind, and i actually miss him. History proved he was no worse than any others in those years
Agreed
Ybodonk wrote:
Today we have Sagan, Betancour (my new favourite, the new iban mayo ), Majka, Niemic, Kwiatkowski, Quintana, Talansky, Dombrowski, Pinot, Rolland, Bardet, Van Poppel and probably a lot i dont remember right now.
Oh absolutely. But Mayo had the mental strength of a beanbag chair. Hopefully Betancur can withstand more.
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"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
Ybodonk wrote:
Furthermore i do believe the peloton in general are way cleaner. In the 90's and 00's you would never ever see youngsters from 19-23 competing at the highest level. There are so many youngsters now. Which is awesome, since we will have favourites and stars for way more years. Earlier a "young" rider was considired at the age of 27. I like to believe that the general jump from youth racing to the pro-peloton is now a smaller gap - hence less doping compared to before. But no doubt that there still is a lot of dope circulating, especially within Sky. They are turning almost every rider to a potential GT winner.
I agree with this point as a general trend, but only as a general trend. And I'll tell you why.
Back in 2007 I heard quite a few people make that exact same argument as to why the peloton must be cleaner. The example of the youngster they used to 'prove' everything was cleaner? Riccò
Yes we are on the same boat, since I also said "in general".
Well Ricco was 26 at that time right? He was one of a kind, and i actually miss him. History proved he was no worse than any others in those years, and yet he pays the highest price (12 year ban) He Reminded me of pantani. But there was not a whole bunch of Ricco's if you know what I mean? Today we have Sagan, Betancour (my new favourite, the new iban mayo ), Majka, Niemic, Kwiatkowski, Quintana, Talansky, Dombrowski, Pinot, Rolland, Bardet, Van Poppel and probably a lot i dont remember right now.
He is 33 actually. Just having more freedom this year to ride for own results.
And I can`t say Ricco was just like many others. He was more extreme I think and the 12 year ban is the best for himself in especially.
For once i actully made a fool of myself in cycling - Sorry
Well he was on CERA, just like most of the peloton i guess.
I think he has an image of being more extreme hence his last doping incident. However, his last doping attempt was on his own, since he wasnt on a team with "hidden organised doping", or doctors connected to the team who could do all the magic for him. So he tried himself, which almost ended fatally. Imagine him on Sky......
Edited by Ybodonk on 08-07-2013 19:20
Ybodonk wrote:
Well Ricco was 26 at that time right?
23
Ybodonk wrote:
He was one of a kind, and i actually miss him. History proved he was no worse than any others in those years
Agreed
Ybodonk wrote:
Today we have Sagan, Betancour (my new favourite, the new iban mayo ), Majka, Niemic, Kwiatkowski, Quintana, Talansky, Dombrowski, Pinot, Rolland, Bardet, Van Poppel and probably a lot i dont remember right now.
Oh absolutely. But Mayo had the mental strength of a beanbag chair. Hopefully Betancur can withstand more.
Thanks for correction, i didnt check up.
I truely hope so too. And I think Betancour is stronger mentally, so many great performances this year. And the only rider almost matching Nibali in the mountains (in some cases mathching). Yeah whenever Mayo did experience resistance he was done. Furthermore I believe something went wrong with his dope in the years after 2003. He had a fantastic Dauphine.
But in TDF nowhere near his 2003 level. He was in top 10 i think on the first mountain stage to La mongie (basso won 04) .
After that, and also the following year we all remember the dramatic stop from him. Going of the bike, forced back, and then out. His way of attacking, dancing through the climbs, the style of his is the most beautifull and powerfull for ever in my world of cycling. I hope he one day will open the black book and tell what happened in the years after 2003
Mayo won Alpe d'Huez in 2003 then won the Dauphine in 2004. (Fastest time ever on the Ventoux in the timetrial). He was supposed to be the rider keeping Armstrong from his 6th Tour. Peaked too early that year, abandond the tour and never return to his old form
Ybodonk wrote:
Well Ricco was 26 at that time right?
23
Ybodonk wrote:
He was one of a kind, and i actually miss him. History proved he was no worse than any others in those years
Agreed
Ybodonk wrote:
Today we have Sagan, Betancour (my new favourite, the new iban mayo ), Majka, Niemic, Kwiatkowski, Quintana, Talansky, Dombrowski, Pinot, Rolland, Bardet, Van Poppel and probably a lot i dont remember right now.
Oh absolutely. But Mayo had the mental strength of a beanbag chair. Hopefully Betancur can withstand more.
Thanks for correction, i didnt check up.
I truely hope so too. And I think Betancour is stronger mentally, so many great performances this year. And the only rider almost matching Nibali in the mountains (in some cases mathching). Yeah whenever Mayo did experience resistance he was done. Furthermore I believe something went wrong with his dope in the years after 2003. He had a fantastic Dauphine.
But in TDF nowhere near his 2003 level. He was in top 10 i think on the first mountain stage to La mongie (basso won 04) .
After that, and also the following year we all remember the dramatic stop from him. Going of the bike, forced back, and then out. His way of attacking, dancing through the climbs, the style of his is the most beautifull and powerfull for ever in my world of cycling. I hope he one day will open the black book and tell what happened in the years after 2003
I miss Mayo a lot.
Same can be said for Carlos Sastre. Speaking of which, Quintana reminds me a lot of Sastre.
They are probably 2 of my favourite retired riders.
Also wasn't Cunego rumoured to Sky at one point? I reckon he'd be doing pretty well if that had actually happened.
On the Mayo subject, a former teammate of his on the u-23 team spoke out.
Essentially he said the 'general knowledge' on Mayo is dead on the money: He was psychologically weak and crumbled when Armstrong had that meeting with the UCI to complain that Mayo was on something new that he didn't like, after which the UCI started warned Mayo and started testing him very frequently.
Yep, Armstrong has a lot of pull.
Edited by issoisso on 08-07-2013 19:39
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
Interesting to hear that Dave Brailsford doesn't want full disclosure of Power tests/blood samples (ITV Interview on the Tour show tonight). Just thinking if he's got nothing to hide, he's got nothing to fear...
nutter453 wrote:
Interesting to hear that Dave Brailsford doesn't want full disclosure of Power tests/blood samples (ITV Interview on the Tour show tonight). Just thinking if he's got nothing to hide, he's got nothing to fear...
Precisely.
For the benefit of people who haven't seen this interview...
The most absurd thing was his response to the question of why Team Sky aren't part of the MPCC. He picked up one point (and specifically one point only) of their charter to explain why Sky was not a member: the rule that you cannot sign a rider within 2 years who has served more than a 6th month suspension. He twisted this so that his objection was that MPCC members were allowed to sign riders who had served a sentence shorter than 6 months, which goes against Sky's zero tolerance policy.
It's quite simple, Dave. 1) You become part of the MPCC 2) You don't sign anyone who contradicts your supposed zero tolerance. You have the power.
I'm quite sure the MPCC don't bully people into signing dopers. That would be slightly counterintuitive.
Kimmage asked how Kennaugh lost 5kg since Romandie, which is Sky's excuse for PK having zero results or performances until the Tour, then suddenly being so strong.
The explanation for Kiriyenka blowing however made sense
Edited by issoisso on 08-07-2013 21:51
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
issoisso wrote:
Kimmage asked how Kennaugh lost 5kg since Romandie, which is Sky's excuse for PK having zero results or performances until the Tour, then suddenly being so strong.
He spouted so much bullshit on Twitter that he lost 5kg? Or he contracted some obscure disease?
), Majka, Niemic, Kwiatkowski, Quintana, Talansky, Dombrowski, Pinot, Rolland, Bardet, Van Poppel and probably a lot i dont remember right now.
Just having more freedom this year to ride for own results. 
