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Tour de France Discussion
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| Bushwackers |
Posted on 14-12-2014 19:15
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I think he won because Schleck burned his matches with his accelerations but allowed Amador to catch up each time. Also, as SN noted, it didn't look like there was much of a sprint, so it may not have come into play at the end.
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| beagle |
Posted on 14-12-2014 19:32
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So far good, everyone in green jersey survived first mountains 
Great report, nice first real battle between monsters!
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| SotD |
Posted on 14-12-2014 19:48
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The Schleck Fan wrote:
SotD wrote:
The Schleck Fan wrote:
Schleck and Amador were brilliant,Madrazo and Tenorio were horrible,Phinney was aveage,Spilak and Pluchkin disappointed a bit.
I don't think Spilak and Pluchkin was all that dissapointing... Sometimes other riders have a good day, and to be honest, the difference between the four riders is not big enough to say that one should constantly beat the other.
I believe that the combination of the exact timing of the attack, and daily form was the reason for the outcome. 37 seconds is nothing on a mountain that is 20km long (or so).
Spilak 85/80MO/HI and 74ACC
Schleck 85/75MO/HI and 79ACC
Pluchkin 85/75MO/HI and 74ACC
Amador 84/75MO/HI and 72ACC
Amador is the best downhiller, Pluchkin is the best flat rider, Schleck is the best recover and Spilak the best endurance rider. They are all in the top 7 climbers imo. Only Cunego, Madrazo and Machado should be able to keep up with them, Alarcon could probably also keep up occasionally.
You are true but Amador won with 72 ACC?I saw Avin saying'Aceleration is the most important stat bar mountain on the mountains' in Vuelta thread.I thought Spilak's acceleration is as much as high as Schleck.Oh and imo Alarcon is a bettter climber than Cunego if he doesn't fuck up in one stage,and Cunego was better than Alarcon because of the maglia rosa and nationality bonus
Acceleration is a factor, absolutely. And you see each time riders that should be better isn't, because they simply can't keep accelerating long and fast enough to keep up, and once a group of strong climbers have settled, you don't chase them back alone, unless you are infact stronger og the group decides to go slower.
The climb itself has a lot of influence on the HI/MO ratio, and what makes Cunego great is his combination of those stats. The higher the mountain, the less influence the HI has as far as I know. That is probably also the reason why Spilak was stronger on the short climb than on the last. And he burned energy being alone or in two man groups for a long time, while others were in bigger groups.
And finally the daily form comes into account. If Schleck and Amador were both on +5 Schleck should normally win, but seeing how he rode that could level out. The difference between the riders is very little to begin with. And if Schleck has +5 and Spilak has +3 for instance, then Schleck is probably going to win, unless Spilak attacks at the exact right spot.
The Tour is going to be decided by whoever have the luck to get the highest amount of high daily form, on the mountainstages, and those who are good at attacking on the times where they actually get a gap. Those who attack without getting away will probably end up losing time.
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| beagle |
Posted on 14-12-2014 20:06
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SotD wrote:
The climb itself has a lot of influence on the HI/MO ratio, and what makes Cunego great is his combination of those stats. The higher the mountain, the less influence the HI has as far as I know. That is probably also the reason why Spilak was stronger on the short climb than on the last. And he burned energy being alone or in two man groups for a long time, while others were in bigger groups.
It would be great if every single climb has its own MO/HI ratio. I don´t think it works like that, though 
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| SotD |
Posted on 14-12-2014 20:14
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beagle wrote:
SotD wrote:
The climb itself has a lot of influence on the HI/MO ratio, and what makes Cunego great is his combination of those stats. The higher the mountain, the less influence the HI has as far as I know. That is probably also the reason why Spilak was stronger on the short climb than on the last. And he burned energy being alone or in two man groups for a long time, while others were in bigger groups.
It would be great if every single climb has its own MO/HI ratio. I don´t think it works like that, though
I believe it has something to do with the altitude. Or atleast it was like that in earlier versions I think.
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| beagle |
Posted on 14-12-2014 20:18
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I guess, some guy with good DB knowledge might help us.
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| roturn |
Posted on 14-12-2014 20:26
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All climbs on the stage have the same Mo/Hi ratio. I am pretty sure of this, which is a pity of course.
So on a real mountain stage all climbs are usually counting mountain stat only. |
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| dave92 |
Posted on 15-12-2014 03:50
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Very strong ride late in the climb by Phinney to limit his losses. The longer he can hold the jersey the better his chances of hanging on to a top 5 overall are.
Amador with a really nice win, been fun seeing him rise as a top rider.
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 11-12-2025 13:41
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 15-12-2014 07:26
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Spoiler The Schleck Fan wrote:
Amador is the best downhiller, Pluchkin is the best flat rider, Schleck is the best recover and Spilak the best endurance rider. They are all in the top 7 climbers imo. Only Cunego, Madrazo and Machado should be able to keep up with them, Alarcon could probably also keep up occasionally.
You are true but Amador won with 72 ACC?I saw Avin saying'Aceleration is the most important stat bar mountain on the mountains' in Vuelta thread.I thought Spilak's acceleration is as much as high as Schleck.Oh and imo Alarcon is a bettter climber than Cunego if he doesn't fuck up in one stage,and Cunego was better than Alarcon because of the maglia rosa and nationality bonus[/quote]
And i still insist on that, but you also have daily form coming to play as SotD said. And that makes the big differential too...
Great win for Amador in thrilling uphill battle. Spilak did actually well and i still see him as top favourite for the overall.
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| roturn |
Posted on 15-12-2014 09:12
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Can`t say Keizer is impressing me here.
That he is no top10 or even top15 rider is no surprise.
But losing to far weaker riders and not even top30 on those mountain stages is disappointing. This way he won`t deliver a 3rd consecutive GT top20.
Schleck going beast mode though makes the GC very exciting.
And Henao Montoya also with an impressive ride here.
Edited by roturn on 15-12-2014 09:13
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| Alakagom |
Posted on 15-12-2014 09:45
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Nice ride by Marquez, impressive effort to make the elite group. Nice place on the GC as well, although would prefer if he drops a little allowing him to attack in third week. No surprises about Vanbilsen, still a hero of the race <3
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 15-12-2014 09:51
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Great effort from Schleck to gain much more time again, he is closing to the podium. Congrats SN, now i can see him battling with Spilak for the win in Paris, as those two looks the strongest. Phinney will loose shitload of time in all the mountain stages to come and maybe only Amador or Madrazo can be the next two for the podium fight.
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| trekbmc |
Posted on 15-12-2014 10:01
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Schleck! 
For the GC win now! 
"What done is, is one." - Benji Naesen
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| tsmoha |
Posted on 15-12-2014 10:05
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Great report once again, as well as an action-packed race on that tough stage. Keizer definitely underperforming so far, this may hurt big time, if he ain't going to do better here soon.. Schleck though! Another impressive performance, which lifts him back to the GC-contention. Should be good news for the race, as there will be some interesting fights to come.
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| Smowz |
Posted on 15-12-2014 12:43
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Really action packed stage there and this tour is beginning to feel like it will be an epic one.
Giro was good - but Cunego did dominate. Vuelta was a bit of a snooze at times with no-one really attacking Alarcon effectively. This is just all sorts happening in mountains and hills.
Phinney looks like he will concede the jersey in the near future - Pluchkin should take it over but Spilak is looking better and better and Schleck has almost eradicated previous damage.
Madrazo is not looking good to challenge at all and is beginning to slip into the same apathy as Giro - it is almost as if previous years conquests came to easy and now a more equal fight has him suffering.
My Team picked an okay day to have a 'break' without anyone looking in time elimination danger. Next two days definately offer a break a chance of the win. I really hope one of the guys can slip away.
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| beagle |
Posted on 15-12-2014 13:00
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Another great stage, what the hell Wallays thought he´s doing?
At least our jersey have been seen in non flat terrain
roturn wrote:
All climbs on the stage have the same Mo/Hi ratio. I am pretty sure of this, which is a pity of course.
So on a real mountain stage all climbs are usually counting mountain stat only.
Thanks for confirmation.
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| Heine |
Posted on 15-12-2014 13:17
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Well done by Schleck
Sad that Zabel pretty much crashed out, I had hopes for him doing well in the last sprints... Nothind to be done about it, now I just hope Monsalve goes on a polkadot-attack
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| SotD |
Posted on 15-12-2014 14:01
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Avin Wargunnson wrote:
Great effort from Schleck to gain much more time again, he is closing to the podium. Congrats SN, now i can see him battling with Spilak for the win in Paris, as those two looks the strongest. Phinney will loose shitload of time in all the mountain stages to come and maybe only Amador or Madrazo can be the next two for the podium fight.
You seem to be hugely underestimating Alexandr Pluchkin, who is above both Spilak and Schleck atm, is easily gaining on Phinney in the mountains, and is my big favorite for the mountain-TT. I guess he will be leading the race after that stage, of course depending on how much that freaking acceleration gap of 5 points will add up to between Spilak and Schleck.
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| Forever the Best |
Posted on 15-12-2014 15:59
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Schleck  
I thought he can lose time because it is a hilly stage on paper.He almost erased the deficit.
@Avin:I think you are forgettig Pluchkin.He is a much more bigger contender than Madrazo.
Spilak vs Pluchkin vs Amador vs Schleck battle has started
The user formerly known as 'The Schleck Fan'
Gracias Alberto.
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| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 15-12-2014 17:21
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Now we're talking!!
I figured the stage would probably suit Mountain more than Hill, despite the rating, but to gain so much time is quite unexpected - and all done right at the end of the stage. The gap is looking a little bit less threatening now for sure with Phinney not looking convincing, Schleck is just 1'39 off 2nd placed Pluchkin.
With so many hard stages left, if those sort of gaps continue then it is certainly game on.
Madrazo continues to underwhelm despite having been so dominant in GTs in previous seasons. Tenorio actually impressed a bit in his attempts to recover from the puncture, but still a bad day.
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