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Vuelta a España 2011
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| hillis91 |
Posted on 07-09-2011 17:14
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SportingNonsense wrote:
Awesome stage! Great to see a Brit winning a GT Mountain stage - first time thats happened since 1989! Froome went at the right time, I dont think he ever had enough to take the race lead, but if Cobo hadnt recovered then it could have been there. Oh well - at least Froome won the stage with that last gasp move.
cactus-jack wrote:
CrueTrue wrote:
If Froome doesn't win the Vuelta, Sky will forever regret that they let Froome do all the work on the stage to Estación de Montaña Manzaneda.
It's always easy to say stuff like that afterwards, though.
Well, who on earth would have figured that Froome would be 2nd only 13' behind? 9 out of 10 had hardly heard of him and nr. 10 is a liar.
So youre saying nobody in Team Sky had ever heard of Froome? 
Hindsight is a wonderful thing, and it was a shame Froome was working for Wiggins for too long. Who knows how it would have been in reverse though, Wiggins isnt exactly a great team player - and evidently not as strong a climber here, I cant see he would have done as much damage as Froome did. If anything, the shambles of a TTT will probably be the larger regret for Sky.
Wiggins has proven himself in a 3 week long GT before, 4th overall in TDF 2009, and Froome hasen't. Nobody know's who is going to be the suprise going into a GT. So Sky did what every team would have done, work for the guy with the best credentals(?) in a GT.
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| cactus-jack |
Posted on 07-09-2011 17:18
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SportingNonsense wrote:
Awesome stage! Great to see a Brit winning a GT Mountain stage - first time thats happened since 1989! Froome went at the right time, I dont think he ever had enough to take the race lead, but if Cobo hadnt recovered then it could have been there. Oh well - at least Froome won the stage with that last gasp move.
cactus-jack wrote:
CrueTrue wrote:
If Froome doesn't win the Vuelta, Sky will forever regret that they let Froome do all the work on the stage to Estación de Montaña Manzaneda.
It's always easy to say stuff like that afterwards, though.
Well, who on earth would have figured that Froome would be 2nd only 13' behind? 9 out of 10 had hardly heard of him and nr. 10 is a liar.
So youre saying nobody in Team Sky had ever heard of Froome?
Hindsight is a wonderful thing, and it was a shame Froome was working for Wiggins for too long. Who knows how it would have been in reverse though, Wiggins isnt exactly a great team player - and evidently not as strong a climber here, I cant see he would have done as much damage as Froome did. If anything, the shambles of a TTT will probably be the larger regret for Sky.
I strongly doubt that anyone on Sky said "Well, if Bradley doesn't make it, then Froome is a shure bet for the podium!" If someone did say that, he better start choosing my lotto-numbers soon! |
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| Shiverson |
Posted on 07-09-2011 17:20
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ComicBoy wrote:
Does someone have a video of the last 10 km? I just got home frome football.
I don't know if you can see this. If you can't you should wait for a youtube video:
https://www.rtve.e...r/1191692/
And this is the last chance to set time between favourites because the other mountains are not near enough to the finish line:
https://www.altime....asp?id=70
The mountain finish at Vivero mark and then there are 14 km to finish line almost all descent:
https://unavueltam...perfil.gif
This will be on friday.
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| CB |
Posted on 07-09-2011 17:36
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Junior Rider
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Shiverson wrote:
ComicBoy wrote:
Does someone have a video of the last 10 km? I just got home frome football.
I don't know if you can see this. If you can't you should wait for a youtube video:
https://www.rtve.e...r/1191692/
And this is the last chance to set time between favourites because the other mountains are not near enough to the finish line:
https://www.altime....asp?id=70
The mountain finish at Vivero mark and then there are 14 km to finish line almost all descent:
https://unavueltam...perfil.gif
This will be on friday. Thank you!  |
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| ruben |
Posted on 07-09-2011 17:36
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I've never seen a guy finishing 2nd coming so much out of nowhere like Froome. I mean I knew the rider and knew he was a somewhat not-awful climber (top 30 on a good day) and decent itt-er (top 20)...but this...
Last guy I can remember coming this much out of nowhere to almost win is Isidro Nozal.
Remember him? |
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| Spilak23 |
Posted on 07-09-2011 17:40
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ruben wrote:
I've never seen a guy finishing 2nd coming so much out of nowhere like Froome. I mean I knew the rider and knew he was a somewhat not-awful climber (top 30 on a good day) and decent itt-er (top 20)...but this...
Last guy I can remember coming this much out of nowhere to almost win is Isidro Nozal.
Remember him?
Nozal got time from a breakaway. But for the rest, comparable situation. He also lost cause he had to work in the leader's jersey for his 'leader' igor gonzalez de galdeano.
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| issoisso |
Posted on 07-09-2011 17:48
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Tour de France Champion
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Spilak23 wrote:
ruben wrote:
I've never seen a guy finishing 2nd coming so much out of nowhere like Froome. I mean I knew the rider and knew he was a somewhat not-awful climber (top 30 on a good day) and decent itt-er (top 20)...but this...
Last guy I can remember coming this much out of nowhere to almost win is Isidro Nozal.
Remember him?
Nozal got time from a breakaway. But for the rest, comparable situation. He also lost cause he had to work in the leader's jersey for his 'leader' igor gonzalez de galdeano.
Not exactly. Nozal didn't gain much time in a break, he just came out of nowhere and completely trounced everyone in the two TTs to build a huge lead. Then he held on in the mountains to limit his losses.
He never worked for Galdeano. Saiz kept saying in public that Galdeano was still the leader because Nozal has the mental strength of wet paper and wouldn't handle the pressure of being the leader.
Nozal held on fine through a bunch of mountain stages only losing a few seconds. Then going into the final mountain stage Galdeano lost a ton of time and Sáiz had to admit that Nozal was the leader. Nozal had a nervous breakdown, cried his heart out, and lost the Vuelta by losing minutes in the only remaining GC stage, a 11km TT.
Froome came almost as much out of nowhere as Nozal. In fact, they were both around the same quality of rider before breaking out. Nozal was more impressive, but that doesn't change the fact that Froome is out of left field.
Sure, the fields this year are far cleaner (as evidenced by the Schlecks and Contador being a lot slower up the mountains), but still Froome is suspicious
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| Ennyzor |
Posted on 07-09-2011 18:02
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ruben wrote:
I've never seen a guy finishing 2nd coming so much out of nowhere like Froome. I mean I knew the rider and knew he was a somewhat not-awful climber (top 30 on a good day) and decent itt-er (top 20)...but this...
Last guy I can remember coming this much out of nowhere to almost win is Isidro Nozal.
Remember him?
Well.. Andy Schleck kinda did the same thing during the 2007 Giro? Yea okay, we all knew he had potential, but the same thing can be said about Froome. |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 07-09-2011 18:09
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Tour de France Champion
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Ennyzor wrote:
ruben wrote:
I've never seen a guy finishing 2nd coming so much out of nowhere like Froome. I mean I knew the rider and knew he was a somewhat not-awful climber (top 30 on a good day) and decent itt-er (top 20)...but this...
Last guy I can remember coming this much out of nowhere to almost win is Isidro Nozal.
Remember him?
Well.. Andy Schleck kinda did the same thing during the 2007 Giro? Yea okay, we all knew he had potential, but the same thing can be said about Froome.
Andy Schleck was 21 and had never done a GT before. Froome had done 3 before this one and had placed in the top 20 of a mountain stage exactly zero times.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 07-09-2011 18:09
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Froome's as old as Andy Schleck. The Luxemburger managed that at 22, which is quite "normal" for such riders. Froome's having a huge breakthrough at 26. Four years is a lot there... |
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| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 07-09-2011 18:16
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cactus-jack wrote:
I strongly doubt that anyone on Sky said "Well, if Bradley doesn't make it, then Froome is a shure bet for the podium!" If someone did say that, he better start choosing my lotto-numbers soon!
Of course not, but they clearly will know more behind the scenes data than we do  Youre pretty much saying you didnt know he was before the Vuelta afterall
hillis91 wrote:
Wiggins has proven himself in a 3 week long GT before, 4th overall in TDF 2009, and Froome hasen't. Nobody know's who is going to be the suprise going into a GT. So Sky did what every team would have done, work for the guy with the best credentals(?) in a GT.
Wasnt saying they should have worked for Froome rather than Wiggins from the start, though Froome was slated to lead Skys team before Wiggins joined in! More a case of, too bad they held him back a little - sometimes its best to go in with a more flexible attitude than all-for-one. But like I did say, hindsight makes things so much easier.
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| ruben |
Posted on 07-09-2011 18:29
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Wiggins has a bit of luck on his side once again.
Mollema said when he accelerated in the final km he was suddenly blocked by a lot of spectators who were suddenly crossing the road. He had to restart "from zero" again and said he lost at least 10 seconds doing so.
A shame the organisers can't get the idiots running at the side of the road to let the riders through. A constant pain in the ass about all mountain stages everywhere btw...spectators running a muck... seriously people, if you want to watch a mountain stage on a mountain, RESPECT THE RIDERS :!:
Drunk ass bastards might cost Mollema a podium place... |
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| Stijn_vranken |
Posted on 07-09-2011 18:57
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ruben wrote:
Wiggins has a bit of luck on his side once again.
Mollema said when he accelerated in the final km he was suddenly blocked by a lot of spectators who were suddenly crossing the road. He had to restart "from zero" again and said he lost at least 10 seconds doing so.
A shame the organisers can't get the idiots running at the side of the road to let the riders through. A constant pain in the ass about all mountain stages everywhere btw...spectators running a muck... seriously people, if you want to watch a mountain stage on a mountain, RESPECT THE RIDERS :!:
Drunk ass bastards might cost Mollema a podium place...
With all respect for you & mollema. I doubt he'd been able to increase the gap with another 25 seconds
prevent hangovers --> stay drunk
pozzato, basically the most stupid cyclist around
RIP WW. Gone but not forgotten
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| ruben |
Posted on 07-09-2011 19:05
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You are missing the point Stijn. I never, and neither did Mollema, claim he would have gotten that much time. (like Mollema said 10 seconds max). Maybe you purposedly want to interpret things wrong?
Mollema is now 24 seconds behind Wiggins. If he wasn't blocked he would have been at 14 seconds. In a stage like the one to Bilbao. 14 seconds might be doable.
24 seconds is a whole other question, even with bonifications....
Edited by ruben on 07-09-2011 19:06
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| kumazan |
Posted on 07-09-2011 19:21
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issoisso wrote:
Sure, the fields this year are far cleaner (as evidenced by the Schlecks and Contador being a lot slower up the mountains), but still Froome is suspicious
Really? Contador didn't look 'slow' at the Giro. And Cobo's time in the Angliru was about as fast as Contador's (I think I read he was faster in the last, tougher 6km, not sure of this).
What has happened in 2011 for the fields to be 'far cleaner' than in 2010, aside from maybe some UCI list topscorers (*cough*Menchov*cough*) being scared? We've seen, imo, a cleaner TDF (thanks AFLD), but the rest of the year? Wouldn't bet a cent on it.
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| Stijn_vranken |
Posted on 07-09-2011 19:31
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ruben wrote:
You are missing the point Stijn. I never, and neither did Mollema, claim he would have gotten that much time. (like Mollema said 10 seconds max). Maybe you purposedly want to interpret things wrong?
Mollema is now 24 seconds behind Wiggins. If he wasn't blocked he would have been at 14 seconds. In a stage like the one to Bilbao. 14 seconds might be doable.
24 seconds is a whole other question, even with bonifications....
14 Seconds looks a lot to gain on el Vivero. The climb isn't long enough to make wiggins crack completly. He'd almost have to win the sprint. They are not even climbing el Vivero from the steepest side (south). they are coming from the eastern way
Although i think there will be a sprint in a small group of around 30 riders.
Edited by Stijn_vranken on 07-09-2011 19:37
prevent hangovers --> stay drunk
pozzato, basically the most stupid cyclist around
RIP WW. Gone but not forgotten
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| ruben |
Posted on 07-09-2011 19:37
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El Vivero is 5km of 8/9%.
Pena Cabarga is 6km.
Also, Wiggins hasn't shown an incresing fitness level lately, and most of all his downhill skills are not exactly great.
It's definately possible (14 seconds)... 24 however... hmm
Also, Stijn, you seem to forget Wiggins did far worse on short climbs than long ones...Where do you think Wiggins lost the most time?
Edited by ruben on 07-09-2011 19:37
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| Stijn_vranken |
Posted on 07-09-2011 19:40
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ruben wrote:
El Vivero is 5km of 8/9%.
Pena Cabarga is 6km.
Also, Wiggins hasn't shown an incresing fitness level lately, and most of all his downhill skills are not exactly great.
It's definately possible (14 seconds)... 24 however... hmm
Also, Stijn, you seem to forget Wiggins did far worse on short climbs than long ones...Where do you think Wiggins lost the most time?
Shorts ones i know. like i said if they had taken the steepest side, then surely mollema had more of a chance. Now im doubting
btw El vivero is more like 6%-7%
Edited by Stijn_vranken on 07-09-2011 19:41
prevent hangovers --> stay drunk
pozzato, basically the most stupid cyclist around
RIP WW. Gone but not forgotten
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| ruben |
Posted on 07-09-2011 19:41
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Well I'm just hoping he cracks somewhat. And that Mollema buillds in the downhill. Like I said, Wiggins shown weakness downhill as well.
It's more hope then anything else. I just don't want Wiggins on the podium |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 07-09-2011 19:43
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kumazan wrote:
issoisso wrote:
Sure, the fields this year are far cleaner (as evidenced by the Schlecks and Contador being a lot slower up the mountains), but still Froome is suspicious
Really? Contador didn't look 'slow' at the Giro. And Cobo's time in the Angliru was about as fast as Contador's (I think I read he was faster in the last, tougher 6km, not sure of this).
What has happened in 2011 for the fields to be 'far cleaner' than in 2010, aside from maybe some UCI list topscorers (*cough*Menchov*cough*) being scared? We've seen, imo, a cleaner TDF (thanks AFLD), but the rest of the year? Wouldn't bet a cent on it.
Go digging through my posts. I posted the climbing powers compared to previous years. The most interesting part is that while Contador and Schleck were much slower (especially the Schlecks), Evans was at the exact same level as 2007, 2008, etc.
Evans is probably clean. Incredible, no?
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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