Selwink wrote:
So you agree with killing your oppressors if you are oppressed, even if some are innocent?
No, for I am not God.
Indeed God never told the people of Israel to attack the Egyptians nor did they.
God tells us to submit to the authorities, as in Romans 13:
Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgement. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, 4 for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience. 6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing. 7 Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honour to whom honour is owed.
And given that the people that are being directly spoken to here are the Christians in Rome, many of whom would be thrown to the lions for their faith. So no I do not agree with killing the oppressor.
I thought the taxes paid to church were invested in new churches, luxurious villas and a lot of wealth and that it was all abuse of power.
edit: also, something else kept me wondering. You said God showed the consequences of rebellion against him. How do you explain he doesn't do that anymore.
Sorry, you're misunderstanding the verse. The 'ministers of God' means that they are appointed by God, not that they are actual ministers/clergymen.
As for your point about our rebellion against God. It is to do with the coming of Christ. In Exodus, the verses we've been discussing, Jesus had not come, nor had the Bible even been begun to be put together. As a result, God had to have a much more involved role to lead His people.
Now, it is not that God has somehow taken a back seat or is less interested, but he has given us the Bible, His guidebook to us, and from reading His Word, we are able to descover how He wants us to live our lives. He doesn't need prophets now to proclaim His will, He has His Word
Those ministers of God, are they popes or something, or 'just' pastors or something?
Those ministers of God are just normal civil administrators, like mayors, kings, princes, emperors, not any church officials, but civil officials. It is said to show that God is in control of all that happens, not just the church.
Selwink wrote:
So you agree with killing your oppressors if you are oppressed, even if some are innocent?
No, for I am not God.
Indeed God never told the people of Israel to attack the Egyptians nor did they.
God tells us to submit to the authorities, as in Romans 13:
Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgement. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, 4 for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience. 6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing. 7 Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honour to whom honour is owed.
And given that the people that are being directly spoken to here are the Christians in Rome, many of whom would be thrown to the lions for their faith. So no I do not agree with killing the oppressor.
I thought the taxes paid to church were invested in new churches, luxurious villas and a lot of wealth and that it was all abuse of power.
edit: also, something else kept me wondering. You said God showed the consequences of rebellion against him. How do you explain he doesn't do that anymore.
Sorry, you're misunderstanding the verse. The 'ministers of God' means that they are appointed by God, not that they are actual ministers/clergymen.
As for your point about our rebellion against God. It is to do with the coming of Christ. In Exodus, the verses we've been discussing, Jesus had not come, nor had the Bible even been begun to be put together. As a result, God had to have a much more involved role to lead His people.
Now, it is not that God has somehow taken a back seat or is less interested, but he has given us the Bible, His guidebook to us, and from reading His Word, we are able to descover how He wants us to live our lives. He doesn't need prophets now to proclaim His will, He has His Word
Those ministers of God, are they popes or something, or 'just' pastors or something?
Those ministers of God are just normal civil administrators, like mayors, kings, princes, emperors, not any church officials, but civil officials. It is said to show that God is in control of all that happens, not just the church.
Some of those civil officials actually don't mind homosexuality I believe. Most civil officials here aren't even christian.
TheManxMissile wrote: Well it was you and Martial who mentioned sex. But ok, marriage and adoption. Homosexuals should not be allowed to get married or adopt because [insert reasons here] (remember you can't use sex or religion as an argument)
Homosexuals should not be allowed to get married or adopt because it is selfish. Studies have been done that show that the best environment for children is a household with a mother and father. Obviously there are exceptions, but we should not be legislating for exceptions, we should be legislating for the rule.
So when a homosexual couple adopts, they are not thinking about the consequences it might have on their children. We have seen how not having a father-figure can have psychological detriments to a person, so the children are being put in an unfair situation. By doing this, the couple is thinking about the fact that they want children, not if it's best for the children.
In a perfect world, every child would be raised by their responsible biological parents. With single parents and orphans this is obviously impossible, but adding gay marriage and gay adoption worsens this problem.
And if you say, "so he condemns divorce" because single parents aren't the best environment, I would say yes, in cases where it is caused by "irreconcilable differences". You got married with the vow "till death do us part," so you have the responsibility to try and work it out, especially if it involves children. There are cases, however, where divorce is necessary, such as domestic violence.
Just my two cents.
Firstly, show us your legitimate, peer-reviewed scientific studies that show that living with gay parents is worse than with the average heterosexual adoptive couple.
Secondly, think of all the selfish heteros who are absolute cunts but still have kids because they want them and to raise them in their own image.
Martial1 wrote:
Homosexuals should not be allowed to get married or adopt because it is selfish. Studies have been done that show that the best environment for children is a household with a mother and father. Obviously there are exceptions, but we should not be legislating for exceptions, we should be legislating for the rule.
Studies show a two parent household is best. Whether that is better as a traditional heterosexual home or as a homosexual set up will vary from couple to couple. There is no scientific evidence that homosexuals are worse parents than heterosexuals.
So when a homosexual couple adopts, they are not thinking about the consequences it might have on their children. We have seen how not having a father-figure can have psychological detriments to a person, so the children are being put in an unfair situation. By doing this, the couple is thinking about the fact that they want children, not if it's best for the children.
Not having a father-figure or mother-figure can be a detrimental to the development of a person i agree. However there is no reason why one of the dad's or mum's could not provide such a patriarchal or matriarchal role, or why the child could not receive that role from an external person to the parents. Equally i know of many heterosexual examples where the patriarchal or matriarchal roles are unfulfilled by the parents.
In a perfect world, every child would be raised by their responsible biological parents. With single parents and orphans this is obviously impossible, but adding gay marriage and gay adoption worsens this problem.
We do not live in a perfect world. Frankly in a perfect world there would be no issues surrounding sexuality so the point becomes irrelevant.
And if you say, "so he condemns divorce" because single parents aren't the best environment, I would say yes, in cases where it is caused by "irreconcilable differences". You got married with the vow "till death do us part," so you have the responsibility to try and work it out, especially if it involves children. There are cases, however, where divorce is necessary, such as domestic violence.
I do agree that marriage should be for life and that divorce is not a good thing. Interestingly the divorce rate amongst homosexuals is lower than that of heterosexuals. So if we are talking about a stable and loving household homosexuality is the way to go.
Selwink wrote:
So you agree with killing your oppressors if you are oppressed, even if some are innocent?
No, for I am not God.
Indeed God never told the people of Israel to attack the Egyptians nor did they.
God tells us to submit to the authorities, as in Romans 13:
Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgement. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, 4 for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience. 6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing. 7 Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honour to whom honour is owed.
And given that the people that are being directly spoken to here are the Christians in Rome, many of whom would be thrown to the lions for their faith. So no I do not agree with killing the oppressor.
I thought the taxes paid to church were invested in new churches, luxurious villas and a lot of wealth and that it was all abuse of power.
edit: also, something else kept me wondering. You said God showed the consequences of rebellion against him. How do you explain he doesn't do that anymore.
Sorry, you're misunderstanding the verse. The 'ministers of God' means that they are appointed by God, not that they are actual ministers/clergymen.
As for your point about our rebellion against God. It is to do with the coming of Christ. In Exodus, the verses we've been discussing, Jesus had not come, nor had the Bible even been begun to be put together. As a result, God had to have a much more involved role to lead His people.
Now, it is not that God has somehow taken a back seat or is less interested, but he has given us the Bible, His guidebook to us, and from reading His Word, we are able to descover how He wants us to live our lives. He doesn't need prophets now to proclaim His will, He has His Word
Those ministers of God, are they popes or something, or 'just' pastors or something?
Those ministers of God are just normal civil administrators, like mayors, kings, princes, emperors, not any church officials, but civil officials. It is said to show that God is in control of all that happens, not just the church.
Some of those civil officials actually don't mind homosexuality I believe. Most civil officials here aren't even christian.
Indeed, this is true, yet this verse isn't saying that all civil officials are to be Christian, but that whether they are or not, it is God who is in control of the world, and they are only in their places of authority because He has placed them there.
Selwink wrote:
So you agree with killing your oppressors if you are oppressed, even if some are innocent?
No, for I am not God.
Indeed God never told the people of Israel to attack the Egyptians nor did they.
God tells us to submit to the authorities, as in Romans 13:
Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgement. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, 4 for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience. 6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing. 7 Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honour to whom honour is owed.
And given that the people that are being directly spoken to here are the Christians in Rome, many of whom would be thrown to the lions for their faith. So no I do not agree with killing the oppressor.
I thought the taxes paid to church were invested in new churches, luxurious villas and a lot of wealth and that it was all abuse of power.
edit: also, something else kept me wondering. You said God showed the consequences of rebellion against him. How do you explain he doesn't do that anymore.
Sorry, you're misunderstanding the verse. The 'ministers of God' means that they are appointed by God, not that they are actual ministers/clergymen.
As for your point about our rebellion against God. It is to do with the coming of Christ. In Exodus, the verses we've been discussing, Jesus had not come, nor had the Bible even been begun to be put together. As a result, God had to have a much more involved role to lead His people.
Now, it is not that God has somehow taken a back seat or is less interested, but he has given us the Bible, His guidebook to us, and from reading His Word, we are able to descover how He wants us to live our lives. He doesn't need prophets now to proclaim His will, He has His Word
Those ministers of God, are they popes or something, or 'just' pastors or something?
Those ministers of God are just normal civil administrators, like mayors, kings, princes, emperors, not any church officials, but civil officials. It is said to show that God is in control of all that happens, not just the church.
Some of those civil officials actually don't mind homosexuality I believe. Most civil officials here aren't even christian.
Indeed, this is true, yet this verse isn't saying that all civil officials are to be Christian, but that whether they are or not, it is God who is in control of the world, and they are only in their places of authority because He has placed them there.
But why would God want to keep them there if they go against His ideas?
Selwink wrote:
So you agree with killing your oppressors if you are oppressed, even if some are innocent?
No, for I am not God.
Indeed God never told the people of Israel to attack the Egyptians nor did they.
God tells us to submit to the authorities, as in Romans 13:
Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgement. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, 4 for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience. 6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing. 7 Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honour to whom honour is owed.
And given that the people that are being directly spoken to here are the Christians in Rome, many of whom would be thrown to the lions for their faith. So no I do not agree with killing the oppressor.
I thought the taxes paid to church were invested in new churches, luxurious villas and a lot of wealth and that it was all abuse of power.
edit: also, something else kept me wondering. You said God showed the consequences of rebellion against him. How do you explain he doesn't do that anymore.
Sorry, you're misunderstanding the verse. The 'ministers of God' means that they are appointed by God, not that they are actual ministers/clergymen.
As for your point about our rebellion against God. It is to do with the coming of Christ. In Exodus, the verses we've been discussing, Jesus had not come, nor had the Bible even been begun to be put together. As a result, God had to have a much more involved role to lead His people.
Now, it is not that God has somehow taken a back seat or is less interested, but he has given us the Bible, His guidebook to us, and from reading His Word, we are able to descover how He wants us to live our lives. He doesn't need prophets now to proclaim His will, He has His Word
Those ministers of God, are they popes or something, or 'just' pastors or something?
Those ministers of God are just normal civil administrators, like mayors, kings, princes, emperors, not any church officials, but civil officials. It is said to show that God is in control of all that happens, not just the church.
Some of those civil officials actually don't mind homosexuality I believe. Most civil officials here aren't even christian.
Indeed, this is true, yet this verse isn't saying that all civil officials are to be Christian, but that whether they are or not, it is God who is in control of the world, and they are only in their places of authority because He has placed them there.
But why would God want to keep them there if they go against His ideas?
I do not know. Why God has chosen to save me rather than all the world leaders is not a question I have the answer too. God has a plan for every single person, and His plan is good and His plan is perfect, and His plan will bring Him glory. As to how He decides who is saved and who is not, that is something only God can answer.
Selwink wrote:
So you agree with killing your oppressors if you are oppressed, even if some are innocent?
No, for I am not God.
Indeed God never told the people of Israel to attack the Egyptians nor did they.
God tells us to submit to the authorities, as in Romans 13:
Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgement. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, 4 for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience. 6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing. 7 Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honour to whom honour is owed.
And given that the people that are being directly spoken to here are the Christians in Rome, many of whom would be thrown to the lions for their faith. So no I do not agree with killing the oppressor.
I thought the taxes paid to church were invested in new churches, luxurious villas and a lot of wealth and that it was all abuse of power.
edit: also, something else kept me wondering. You said God showed the consequences of rebellion against him. How do you explain he doesn't do that anymore.
Sorry, you're misunderstanding the verse. The 'ministers of God' means that they are appointed by God, not that they are actual ministers/clergymen.
As for your point about our rebellion against God. It is to do with the coming of Christ. In Exodus, the verses we've been discussing, Jesus had not come, nor had the Bible even been begun to be put together. As a result, God had to have a much more involved role to lead His people.
Now, it is not that God has somehow taken a back seat or is less interested, but he has given us the Bible, His guidebook to us, and from reading His Word, we are able to descover how He wants us to live our lives. He doesn't need prophets now to proclaim His will, He has His Word
Those ministers of God, are they popes or something, or 'just' pastors or something?
Those ministers of God are just normal civil administrators, like mayors, kings, princes, emperors, not any church officials, but civil officials. It is said to show that God is in control of all that happens, not just the church.
Some of those civil officials actually don't mind homosexuality I believe. Most civil officials here aren't even christian.
Indeed, this is true, yet this verse isn't saying that all civil officials are to be Christian, but that whether they are or not, it is God who is in control of the world, and they are only in their places of authority because He has placed them there.
But why would God want to keep them there if they go against His ideas?
I do not know. Why God has chosen to save me rather than all the world leaders is not a question I have the answer too. God has a plan for every single person, and His plan is good and His plan is perfect, and His plan will bring Him glory. As to how He decides who is saved and who is not, that is something only God can answer.
So you rely on him at any time? You never doubt anything he does and assume everything he does is perfect? I was raised Christian, but a few years ago I started asking myself questions about this, to conclude there is no God. Feel free to keep your thoughts, as I don't think we're going to agree on this.
TheManxMissile wrote:
Lot of misunderstanding of what a Gay Pride Parade is. It is not a rally to protest about laws or to show how they are normal. It is a celebration of gay culture and lifestyle (not sex). There is no difference between a gay pride parade and say the Notting Hill Carnival we have in London.
So you think if I organized a Straight Pride Parade it would be completely fine with everyone, even if it was just celebrating the lifestyle and culture? No, of course not. Double standard.
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy
baseballlover312 wrote:
So you think if I organized a Straight Pride Parade it would be completely fine with everyone, even if it was just celebrating the lifestyle and culture? No, of course not. Double standard.
Selwink wrote:
So you agree with killing your oppressors if you are oppressed, even if some are innocent?
No, for I am not God.
Indeed God never told the people of Israel to attack the Egyptians nor did they.
God tells us to submit to the authorities, as in Romans 13:
Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgement. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, 4 for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience. 6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing. 7 Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honour to whom honour is owed.
And given that the people that are being directly spoken to here are the Christians in Rome, many of whom would be thrown to the lions for their faith. So no I do not agree with killing the oppressor.
I thought the taxes paid to church were invested in new churches, luxurious villas and a lot of wealth and that it was all abuse of power.
edit: also, something else kept me wondering. You said God showed the consequences of rebellion against him. How do you explain he doesn't do that anymore.
Sorry, you're misunderstanding the verse. The 'ministers of God' means that they are appointed by God, not that they are actual ministers/clergymen.
As for your point about our rebellion against God. It is to do with the coming of Christ. In Exodus, the verses we've been discussing, Jesus had not come, nor had the Bible even been begun to be put together. As a result, God had to have a much more involved role to lead His people.
Now, it is not that God has somehow taken a back seat or is less interested, but he has given us the Bible, His guidebook to us, and from reading His Word, we are able to descover how He wants us to live our lives. He doesn't need prophets now to proclaim His will, He has His Word
Those ministers of God, are they popes or something, or 'just' pastors or something?
Those ministers of God are just normal civil administrators, like mayors, kings, princes, emperors, not any church officials, but civil officials. It is said to show that God is in control of all that happens, not just the church.
Some of those civil officials actually don't mind homosexuality I believe. Most civil officials here aren't even christian.
Indeed, this is true, yet this verse isn't saying that all civil officials are to be Christian, but that whether they are or not, it is God who is in control of the world, and they are only in their places of authority because He has placed them there.
But why would God want to keep them there if they go against His ideas?
I do not know. Why God has chosen to save me rather than all the world leaders is not a question I have the answer too. God has a plan for every single person, and His plan is good and His plan is perfect, and His plan will bring Him glory. As to how He decides who is saved and who is not, that is something only God can answer.
So you rely on him at any time? You never doubt anything he does and assume everything he does is perfect? I was raised Christian, but a few years ago I started asking myself questions about this, to conclude there is no God. Feel free to keep your thoughts, as I don't think we're going to agree on this.
Yes, I rely on God at all times. There are times when I have questions, sure, but never any lasting doubts.
I believe God to be completely good, and therefore all that He does is completely good. He is incapable of sinning. Sometimes what He does is hard to understand, but it is still good.
I have had questions, plenty of them, yet God keeps showing me the answers.
TheManxMissile wrote:
Lot of misunderstanding of what a Gay Pride Parade is. It is not a rally to protest about laws or to show how they are normal. It is a celebration of gay culture and lifestyle (not sex). There is no difference between a gay pride parade and say the Notting Hill Carnival we have in London.
So you think if I organized a Straight Pride Parade it would be completely fine with everyone, even if it was just celebrating the lifestyle and culture? No, of course not. Double standard.
Maybe not with everyone but neither is Gay Pride. It would be fine with me. Don't just say what would happen, put your money where your mouth is and organise one.
TheManxMissile wrote:
Lot of misunderstanding of what a Gay Pride Parade is. It is not a rally to protest about laws or to show how they are normal. It is a celebration of gay culture and lifestyle (not sex). There is no difference between a gay pride parade and say the Notting Hill Carnival we have in London.
So you think if I organized a Straight Pride Parade it would be completely fine with everyone, even if it was just celebrating the lifestyle and culture? No, of course not. Double standard.
Maybe not with everyone but neither is Gay Pride. It would be fine with me. Don't just say what would happen, put your money where your mouth is and organise one.
That would be a PR meltdown and you know it. It isn't politically correct enough.
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy
But it is possible, and that's the point 
![imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg](https://imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg)
