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News in June
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| Alakagom |
Posted on 06-06-2013 09:46
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fcancellara wrote:
baseballlover312 wrote:
Well then, there aren't any clean italian climbers.
Nibali, Aru (please!  )
If people state as one of main evidence of doping is going strong all year, then Nibali has to be accused of the same thing.
As for Italian clean climbers Ulissi seems clean to me at least, very natural progress by him, I hope Bardiani is clean too.
Edited by Alakagom on 06-06-2013 09:48
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| Pellizotti2 |
Posted on 06-06-2013 09:50
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No need to use the "long peak argument" for Nibali, as there's far more substantial evidence earlier in this thread. There's absolutely no way he's clean.
I wouldn't be sure of Aru or Ulissi either, given the doctors that are working with their respective teams.
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| Alakagom |
Posted on 06-06-2013 09:53
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Pellizotti2 wrote:
No need to use the "long peak argument" for Nibali, as there's far more substantial evidence earlier in this thread. There's absolutely no way he's clean.
I wouldn't be sure of Aru or Ulissi either, given the doctors that are working with their respective teams.
We can't be sure of anyone really in my opinion. Only thing convincing me on Ulissi is his steady progression, he's having consistent but not mind boggling results. Aru well, who knows about him.
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 18-12-2025 11:56
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| Montolivo |
Posted on 06-06-2013 09:53
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Why talk so much about clean climbers from Italy?
In my opinion none of the top GC climbers is clean. From Spain you have Contador, Valverde, Rodriguez and Sanchez which is not clean. Also Colombia with Henao, Uran and Betancur I very much doubt is clean. |
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 06-06-2013 09:54
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Also it is not long we had some insider speaking here about how it goes in youth Italian cycling? That almost everyone in that categories is doped too?
Aru is the best from young Italians coming from this environment of cheaters, how clean he can possibly be?
Edit: It is probably very similar in Spain and elsewhere.
Edited by Avin Wargunnson on 06-06-2013 09:55
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| Spilak23 |
Posted on 06-06-2013 09:55
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If somebody asks me: "From the best 20 cyclists in the world right now, who do you think is clean?" My first answer still would be Nibali. It was never a secret he had this much talent plus his progress has been steady and natural ever since he became a pro.
Edited by Spilak23 on 06-06-2013 09:56
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| Alakagom |
Posted on 06-06-2013 09:56
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Well, Colombians as someone said some time ago have ''natural doping''. They live at high altitude, along the good effects of that on the body, they also feel much more comfortable in high mountains, giving them very substantial advantage over any Europeans really.
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| Pellizotti2 |
Posted on 06-06-2013 09:57
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Avin Wargunnson wrote:
Also it is not long we had some insider speaking here about how it goes in youth Italian cycling? That almost everyone in that categories is doped too?
That's what makes me doubt "steady progression" as an argument for being clean. You can't possibly know if I rider started doping already as an amateur and then built on from there.
And Montolivo, it's obviously the same in all countries. We're just talking about Italy because someone brought up the question.
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| PCM rulezz |
Posted on 06-06-2013 10:00
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Why only accuse GC riders? What about the results of Gilbert (2011), Boonen (2012), cancellara (2011 and 2013) and most notably Sagan.
Winners never quit, quitters never win.
It's difficult not to be happy when you're surrounded by Belgians. - Mark Cavendish
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| Spilak23 |
Posted on 06-06-2013 10:01
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PCM rulezz wrote:
Why only accuse GC riders? What about the results of Gilbert (2011), Boonen (2012), cancellara (2011 and 2013) and most notably Sagan.
Gilbert: Cortisone for his 'astma'
Cancellara: Luigi classicomano, patient of Luigi Checchini
Boonen: Ridden for US - Postal, positives for Cocaine
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| Montolivo |
Posted on 06-06-2013 10:02
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Alakagom wrote:
Well, Colombians as someone said some time ago have ''natural doping''. They live at high altitude, along the good effects of that on the body, they also feel much more comfortable in high mountains, giving them very substantial advantage over any Europeans really.
That is true, but doping wouldn't be out of the question even if you live at high altitudes.
Also with Henao and Uran taking the Sky methods and Betancur at AG2R is not very good for a clean image. |
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| Pellizotti2 |
Posted on 06-06-2013 10:04
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Spilak23 wrote:
PCM rulezz wrote:
Why only accuse GC riders? What about the results of Gilbert (2011), Boonen (2012), cancellara (2011 and 2013) and most notably Sagan.
Gilbert: Cortisone for his 'astma'
Cancellara: Luigi classicomano, patient of Luigi Checchini
Boonen: Ridden for US - Postal, positives for Cocaine
Plus, Ibarguren working for OPQS and Omega Pharma before that. "Coincidentally" hired just before Boonen returned to his best last year and dominated the cobbled classics. 
Edited by Pellizotti2 on 06-06-2013 10:04
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| Spilak23 |
Posted on 06-06-2013 10:04
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Montolivo wrote:
Alakagom wrote:
Well, Colombians as someone said some time ago have ''natural doping''. They live at high altitude, along the good effects of that on the body, they also feel much more comfortable in high mountains, giving them very substantial advantage over any Europeans really.
That is true, but doping wouldn't be out of the question even if you live at high altitudes.
Also with Henao and Uran taking the Sky methods and Betancur at AG2R is not very good for a clean image.
Best way to defend the Colombians is to say they basically disapeared from the cycling scene after the 80's untill now. What was the dirtiest period of cycling.
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 06-06-2013 10:14
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Spilak23 wrote:
If somebody asks me: "From the best 20 cyclists in the world right now, who do you think is clean?" My first answer still would be Nibali. It was never a secret he had this much talent plus his progress has been steady and natural ever since he became a pro.
I would say Sagan, but that is maybe just my naivity and that i follow him from his teenage years and saw him excell in many cycling disciplines.
He is maybe the most far from any sort of evidence about him from top riders, of course that does not mean he is clean. There are also suspicious doictors in Cannondale, as was written recently...
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| PCM rulezz |
Posted on 06-06-2013 10:14
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Pellizotti2 wrote:
Spilak23 wrote:
PCM rulezz wrote:
Why only accuse GC riders? What about the results of Gilbert (2011), Boonen (2012), cancellara (2011 and 2013) and most notably Sagan.
Gilbert: Cortisone for his 'astma'
Cancellara: Luigi classicomano, patient of Luigi Checchini
Boonen: Ridden for US - Postal, positives for Cocaine
Plus, Ibarguren working for OPQS and Omega Pharma before that. "Coincidentally" hired just before Boonen returned to his best last year and dominated the cobbled classics.
Maybe you are right. But if go thinking that every riders with a palmares as Boonen or Gilbert is doper, I can't love cycling anymore.
Winners never quit, quitters never win.
It's difficult not to be happy when you're surrounded by Belgians. - Mark Cavendish
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| Cossack |
Posted on 06-06-2013 10:20
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Pellizotti2 wrote:
You can't possibly know if I rider started doping already as an amateur and then built on from there.
Ricco anyone?
Wikipedia
Prior to joining the team he tried to become a professional with Ceramica Panaria-Navigare in 2005 but wasn't allowed because several blood tests revealed his hematocrit levels exceeded those acceptable. Saunier Duval's sportif director, Mauro Gianetti, suggested he spend a week in the UCI laboratory in Lausanne to prove that his blood values were natural. Further exhaustive tests by the UCI confirmed that Riccò´s hematocrit level was naturally over 50%. This has since been questioned however when, on 17 July 2008, it was revealed that Riccò had a non negative test for EPO, the hematocrit boosting drug, following the Tour de France stage 4 time trial at Cholet.[4][5] It has since been suggested by fellow pro-rider Jérôme Pineau that Riccò openly doped even as a junior rider |
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| Alakagom |
Posted on 06-06-2013 10:23
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Avin Wargunnson wrote:
Spilak23 wrote:
If somebody asks me: "From the best 20 cyclists in the world right now, who do you think is clean?" My first answer still would be Nibali. It was never a secret he had this much talent plus his progress has been steady and natural ever since he became a pro.
I would say Sagan, but that is maybe just my naivity and that i follow him from his teenage years and saw him excell in many cycling disciplines.
He is maybe the most far from any sort of evidence about him from top riders, of course that does not mean he is clean. There are also suspicious doictors in Cannondale, as was written recently...
I agree, it's between Sagan and EBH ( yes, he still qualifies for Top 20 cyclists ) I think. EBH and Sagan were supreme talents from beginning, EBH was never associated with doping or anything like that too.
You can say one is at a dodgy team, other too. But for me from the top cyclists, those two would hopefully be the cleanest.
Edited by Alakagom on 06-06-2013 10:24
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| PCM rulezz |
Posted on 06-06-2013 10:31
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Isn't sagan the rider with the most exceptional progress? I hope for him it's pure talent.
Winners never quit, quitters never win.
It's difficult not to be happy when you're surrounded by Belgians. - Mark Cavendish
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| Montolivo |
Posted on 06-06-2013 10:31
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Alakagom wrote:
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
Spilak23 wrote:
If somebody asks me: "From the best 20 cyclists in the world right now, who do you think is clean?" My first answer still would be Nibali. It was never a secret he had this much talent plus his progress has been steady and natural ever since he became a pro.
I would say Sagan, but that is maybe just my naivity and that i follow him from his teenage years and saw him excell in many cycling disciplines.
He is maybe the most far from any sort of evidence about him from top riders, of course that does not mean he is clean. There are also suspicious doictors in Cannondale, as was written recently...
I agree, it's between Sagan and EBH ( yes, he still qualifies for Top 20 cyclists ) I think. EBH and Sagan were supreme talents from beginning, EBH was never associated with doping or anything like that too.
You can say one is at a dodgy team, other too. But for me from the top cyclists, those two would hopefully be the cleanest.
To be clean or be cleanest is a big difference. I have big doubts that those two are clean.
At least i'm not the type who goes around thinking about doping when I see one rider win alot of races. I often give riders the benefit of the doubt even though I believe most are still on doping. |
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| fcancellara |
Posted on 06-06-2013 10:32
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Alakagom wrote:
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
Spilak23 wrote:
If somebody asks me: "From the best 20 cyclists in the world right now, who do you think is clean?" My first answer still would be Nibali. It was never a secret he had this much talent plus his progress has been steady and natural ever since he became a pro.
I would say Sagan, but that is maybe just my naivity and that i follow him from his teenage years and saw him excell in many cycling disciplines.
He is maybe the most far from any sort of evidence about him from top riders, of course that does not mean he is clean. There are also suspicious doictors in Cannondale, as was written recently...
I agree, it's between Sagan and EBH ( yes, he still qualifies for Top 20 cyclists ) I think. EBH and Sagan were supreme talents from beginning, EBH was never associated with doping or anything like that too.
You can say one is at a dodgy team, other too. But for me from the top cyclists, those two would hopefully be the cleanest.
EBH rides for Sky. Therefore, your argument is invalid
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