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2013 UCI Road World Championships Firenze
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| kumazan |
Posted on 30-09-2013 22:41
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kimiopn wrote:
So you believe the tactic was made like Rodriguez was slowest and so the first to attack (on a downhill) and then have Valverde on wheels for a sprint as plan B?
Yes. It's the obvious tactic to follow in such case. It's a win-win situation.
kimiopn wrote:
Wait, but you said:
kumazan wrote:
If Valverde was Indurain, the winner would have been Purito.
*bunch of ad hominem and flag waving*
That quote is just the answer to Squire's Duitama Wolrds reference. He said that if Valverde had been Indurain, he could have won. I answered that, in a extremely similar situation, Indurain did what Valverde didn't and Olano (in the role taken by Purito) took the win.
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| Schleck96 |
Posted on 30-09-2013 23:33
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Pellizotti2 wrote:
You must've been watching a different race than the rest of us, kimiopn
kimiopn wrote:
Even if Rui Costa hadn't placed the attack perfectly, and Valverde managed to follow his attack, do you think Rui Costa would have just stopped and waited for the other two and Purito would have won for lack of chase?
I sure as hell don't think he would've continued like he did if Valverde and Nibali got on to his wheel. That'd be handing Valverde the gold and giving Nibbles a good chance of taking silver from him
Costa never worked earlier in the race, so he wouldn't do it there either, I definitly agree. In the end, he won, that's what matters! |
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 01-10-2013 06:59
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World Champion
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kimiopn wrote:
kumazan wrote:
Easy, because it was the most sensible thing to do. If you have two in a group of 4, leave it all for the sprint and then you lose, you failed as hard as you could. Attacking with the slowest guy means the fastest one can just follow wheels all the way to the finish, meaning that, in case the attacker isn't chased down, you win, and in case he is, you are fresher than the others.
Of course Valverde is mentally limited, and he couldn't quite follow such a complex race plan.
So you believe the tactic was made like Rodriguez was slowest and so the first to attack (on a downhill) and then have Valverde on wheels for a sprint as plan B?
Wait, but you said:
kumazan wrote:
If Valverde was Indurain, the winner would have been Purito.
So Rodriguez attacks, no one responds, Rodriguez wins. But if someone attacks and Valverde responds, Rodriguez also wins???
That is a complex plan, but specially to Purito.
You are very rude saying Valverde is mentally limited. Crying Rodriguez didn't had the legs to win it just like Nibali couldn't follow or Valverde couldn't counter attack Costa on a turn and with Nibali in front of him. Then Nibali steered at Valverde so he could go on his wheel but Costa was far already. Didn't you saw that?
Do you have visual limitations? It was so fast, it was hard to see, i know.
Even if Rui Costa hadn't placed the attack perfectly, and Valverde managed to follow his attack, do you think Rui Costa would have just stopped and waited for the other two and Purito would have won for lack of chase?
Now if you consider what Contador or the rest of the spannish team did or even all the other favorites did, to blame Valverde is really really stupid.
Azia.
Well, it is simple from my point of view...
Spain did everything perfect till Costa attacked. Plan was ler Rodriguez attack three times to destroy Nibali and possibly Costa. It had two options.
a)Nobody catch Purito, he wins and Valverde sprints for podium=profit
b)Purito is caught, but Valverde is most fresh rider, because he only followed and did not have visible problems like Costa on that wall. Valverde sprints for gold=profit
Simple plan, but Valverde was not able to follow thast plan, by not responding to Costa, he had only eyes for Nibali. Or he was dead, we cant be sure. But plan was pretty clear.
But Costa outsmarted them all, it is not like we are Costa haters here... 
Edited by Avin Wargunnson on 01-10-2013 07:01
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| ShortsNL |
Posted on 01-10-2013 09:26
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Breakaway Specialist
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Aquarius wrote:
What makes the race spectacular is not necessarily what makes it interesting. In the end it's a sport, not a show, and I like it like that.
Your post is very informative man and it shows that there are some good parralels with phospho-creatine and red bar, and glyco and yellow bar 
Indeed a race like this means that the best man will most likely win, and not an outsider. I'm not sure if I get what you were saying though: you believe for sporting value the strongest contender should win, and sport should be organized to make that happen?
I disagree with that to a certain extent. The entertainment value is very important to me as well. I don't want to get philosophical on you discussing the nature and the reason for sport, but still an interesting topic would be the random nature of sport.
One reason I love watching cycling is because the strategy that is involved. I agree that cycling (or sport in general for that matter) shouldn't be a lottery, but allowing for a certain degree of chance does make a better game I think. It means the riders have to play poker and chess while doing a marathon at the same time, because they have to think ahead in scenarios, assess chance and predict their opponents like in game theory.
Making the race deterministic would really take away some of the beauty of cycling in my opinion.
Edited by ShortsNL on 01-10-2013 09:27
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 01-10-2013 11:41
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Maybe I caricatured my viewpoint a little. I don't necessarily want the guy with the best ability to win and everything to be done for that to happen, eh, I'm not Mwuhi who always says a race sucked when the alleged best rider did not win. That'd be boring as f**k.
I do like the tactical aspect of cycling, don't get me wrong.
But somehow I would find it regrettable if the World Champion was not even amongst the strongest ~20 riders of the day. And that's where the length of the race comes into play to get rid of the weakest riders. |
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| Spilak23 |
Posted on 01-10-2013 12:15
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Firenze has always been Rui Costa's town!
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| samdiatmh |
Posted on 01-10-2013 12:40
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Posts: 892
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must admit that i thought it was lousy of Valverde not to follow Costa, but he did jump right at that hairpin, so you'd have had to react quickly
great effort from Purito though, after basically TTing the last 5kms, and then almost leaping over RuiCosta for the win
fair result, hope that he gets a bit more success than Gilbert did next year (ie more than 1 victory)
also, must give credit to Nechita and Kvasina for even finishing |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 25-11-2024 09:17
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| Squire |
Posted on 01-10-2013 13:48
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samdiatmh wrote:
also, must give credit to Nechita and Kvasina for even finishing
Nechita is some fighter, isn't he? Was hanging on for dear life for almost the whole circuit racing, and was still there at the back of the group before the last lap, I think. Impressive.
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| fosforgasXIII |
Posted on 01-10-2013 17:50
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Good thing Costa doesn't have to ride in that ugly pink jersey now. Well except for TT's then. Actually he has to ride in both pink and rainbow, how gay can you get?  |
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| kumazan |
Posted on 01-10-2013 17:53
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fosforgasXIII wrote:
Good thing Costa doesn't have to ride in that ugly pink jersey now. Well except for TT's then.
Portuguese TT champion. 
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| fosforgasXIII |
Posted on 01-10-2013 18:03
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kumazan wrote:
fosforgasXIII wrote:
Good thing Costa doesn't have to ride in that ugly pink jersey now. Well except for TT's then.
Portuguese TT champion.
Must be the most happy guy at Lampre then. |
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 01-10-2013 19:41
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Maybe, since he must be euphoric with his recent success. But maybe not, as they might not be as prejudiced as you... |
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| kumazan |
Posted on 01-10-2013 21:57
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Team Leader
Posts: 6662
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"From Nibali's fall to his reentry in the group I was behind him and no car or motorbike helped him... I swear!!"
Maybe it was Moser's chopper in disguise? 
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| Miguel98 |
Posted on 01-10-2013 21:58
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World Champion
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What I like more from that is the I Swear bit. Pure comedy. |
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 01-10-2013 22:00
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| Shonak |
Posted on 02-10-2013 00:55
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fosforgasXIII wrote:
Good thing Costa doesn't have to ride in that ugly pink jersey now. Well except for TT's then. Actually he has to ride in both pink and rainbow, how gay can you get?
I actually started to ride Lampre in PCM because I like their jerseys. They stand out of the crowd. 
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
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| CrueTrue |
Posted on 02-10-2013 13:54
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 29989
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I think that guy has somehow managed to forget that the race was televised. |
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| fosforgasXIII |
Posted on 06-10-2013 14:50
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Shonak wrote:
fosforgasXIII wrote:
Good thing Costa doesn't have to ride in that ugly pink jersey now. Well except for TT's then. Actually he has to ride in both pink and rainbow, how gay can you get?
I actually started to ride Lampre in PCM because I like their jerseys. They stand out of the crowd.
No need to be ashamed, everyone has his own taste.
And apparently I'm now prejudiced because I made a joke about Lampre's colours  |
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| CountArach |
Posted on 06-10-2013 15:31
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fosforgasXIII wrote:
Shonak wrote:
fosforgasXIII wrote:
Good thing Costa doesn't have to ride in that ugly pink jersey now. Well except for TT's then. Actually he has to ride in both pink and rainbow, how gay can you get?
I actually started to ride Lampre in PCM because I like their jerseys. They stand out of the crowd.
No need to be ashamed, everyone has his own taste.
And apparently I'm now prejudiced because I made a joke about Lampre's colours
No you are prejudiced because you made a joke about gay people. Pink and being gay have nothing at all to do with each other and that only came about by the following process:
1) Pink is deemed by society to be a feminine colour
2) Gay people are deemed by society to be non-masculine, and thus feminine
3) So gay = pink
So when you talk about pink as a feminine colour, as you implied, you are just reinforcing the difference and 'Other' status of gay people. That's why Aquarius said what he did.
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| fosforgasXIII |
Posted on 06-10-2013 18:05
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Posts: 845
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CountArach wrote:
fosforgasXIII wrote:
Shonak wrote:
fosforgasXIII wrote:
Good thing Costa doesn't have to ride in that ugly pink jersey now. Well except for TT's then. Actually he has to ride in both pink and rainbow, how gay can you get?
I actually started to ride Lampre in PCM because I like their jerseys. They stand out of the crowd.
No need to be ashamed, everyone has his own taste.
And apparently I'm now prejudiced because I made a joke about Lampre's colours
No you are prejudiced because you made a joke about gay people. Pink and being gay have nothing at all to do with each other and that only came about by the following process:
1) Pink is deemed by society to be a feminine colour
2) Gay people are deemed by society to be non-masculine, and thus feminine
3) So gay = pink
So when you talk about pink as a feminine colour, as you implied, you are just reinforcing the difference and 'Other' status of gay people. That's why Aquarius said what he did.
I said that rainbow combined with pink was gay (which I didn't even mean, it was meant as a joke). The only prejudice you can blame me of is that I said that Costa is the happiest rider at Lampre because he doesn't have to wear the "ugly" Lampre shirt. Obviously ugliness is subjective and not everyone finds the shirts ugly, so I made a generalisation based upon my own taste, for which I offer my apologies. |
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