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PCMdaily DB Stat Discussion - PCM15
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 25-02-2016 07:15
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World Champion
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Ollfardh wrote:
Great stats, as usual! I'd up or down one on occasion by personal preference.
The only part where I have bigger corcerns is the sprinters. Is Kittel really that much above the rest if we look at his last season? I would keep Greipel and Cav closer to be honest. And I'm also against Greipel's hill going to 71, he never makes it over the Poggio for example.
This!
Perfect work on the stats of the top riders database team. I see only two overrated riders - Kittel is way above the rest of sprinting field and Thomas is generally overrated, especially in mountain stat and cobbles.
Sagan is spot on i would say!
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| Ad Bot |
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| AiZaK |
Posted on 25-02-2016 07:25
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Arberg27 wrote:
Nibali 81 mountain and 78 hill.
Contador 81 mountain.
Landa 82 mountain.
Froome 75 flat, 79 hill and 76 acc.
Seriously???
Landa did a good Vuelta al Pais Vasco and fantastic Giro and 82, and Contador many years being the best climber and he was not very good in le Tour and 81??? And Nibali the same???
I remember you that Landa was in la Vuelta a España and he did not nothing, so he deserves 77/78 in Mountain??? |
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| miguejack |
Posted on 25-02-2016 07:50
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Arberg27 wrote:
jnz_1989 wrote:
What's the logic behind Contador's 82 on mountain? When he's at his best he is as good as Quintana or Froome. He has better secundary stats but still. Just trying to understand. Don't want to be rude.. Hahahaha Joke? Or you have not seen the Tour de France since 2009?
He's right mate! I just don't care or complain, because he has secundary stats so it's still playable
Costa ~ Machado ~ Quintana ~ Gallopin
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| miguejack |
Posted on 25-02-2016 07:51
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AiZaK wrote:
Arberg27 wrote:
Nibali 81 mountain and 78 hill.
Contador 81 mountain.
Landa 82 mountain.
Froome 75 flat, 79 hill and 76 acc.
Seriously???
Landa did a good Vuelta al Pais Vasco and fantastic Giro and 82, and Contador many years being the best climber and he was not very good in le Tour and 81??? And Nibali the same???
I remember you that Landa was in la Vuelta a España and he did not nothing, so he deserves 77/78 in Mountain???
It's a fact that Landa did nothing in Vuelta...
Costa ~ Machado ~ Quintana ~ Gallopin
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| Arberg27 |
Posted on 25-02-2016 08:01
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Landa and Valverde was the third best climber in 2015, surpassed only by Froome and Quintana, that was far above all others.
Landa was stronger in the mountains than Contador and Aru in Giro and won king stage in Vuelta, where he was also paramount to Aru won the race.
Valverde was stronger than Nibali and Contador in Tour and had a fantastic year.
Edited by Arberg27 on 25-02-2016 08:56
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 25-02-2016 09:15
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Well Greipel has done some great stuff in the cobbled classics as well, so stamina doesn't seem to be the problem. He can't handle anything longer than the average flemish molehill, so 71 hill is too much in my opinion. He deserves higher other stats, but not hill.
And well, the main issue was Kittel. I understand the gut feeling that he's back on track (I have it too) but come on, your decision to award an 83 to a rider is based on Oman and Algarve performances?
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| matt17br |
Posted on 25-02-2016 09:35
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To be fair, it's completely untrue that Landa did nothing at Vuelta. Once he lost time on the first week he was constantly among the best in the last 2 weeks and looked like the sharpest in most occasions.
Some good points made about Kittel, he might be lowered in the next updates unless he proves he is actually worth it. Not sure I do agree about Greipel though, with those stats I can assure you he'll have a really hard time winning Sanremo anyway. If you take a look at the other sprinters' stats that will make sense. Especially considering it is the Flemish murs that take up most of the yellow/red bar and those are the ones where he excels. Sanremos hills on the other hand are far easier in game and giving him lower than 70 not only won't make a difference there, but will also make sure he gets dropped far more easily in the steeper slopes that he can resist. Which stats do you think he would deserve higher since you mentioned it, btw?
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| AiZaK |
Posted on 25-02-2016 09:38
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Imo Kittel's stas are perfect |
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 25-02-2016 09:57
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matt17br wrote:
To be fair, it's completely untrue that Landa did nothing at Vuelta. Once he lost time on the first week he was constantly among the best in the last 2 weeks and looked like the sharpest in most occasions.
Some good points made about Kittel, he might be lowered in the next updates unless he proves he is actually worth it. Not sure I do agree about Greipel though, with those stats I can assure you he'll have a really hard time winning Sanremo anyway. If you take a look at the other sprinters' stats that will make sense. Especially considering it is the Flemish murs that take up most of the yellow/red bar and those are the ones where he excels. Sanremos hills on the other hand are far easier in game and giving him lower than 70 not only won't make a difference there, but will also make sure he gets dropped far more easily in the steeper slopes that he can resist. Which stats do you think he would deserve higher since you mentioned it, btw?
Me personaly, I'd up his Flat, given how hard he can set a pace for his team when he has too, his Stamina, because of his performances in classics, his Rec, as we was superb throughout last year's Tour. He deserves good back up stats, but Hill is not on of them in my opinion. I'd set it at 68-69, still well above Kittel and Cav, but you'll still see him struggle where he should.
For me personally, Greipel was awesome last year. But it doesn't translate is his stats, as Kittel is far better. I mean, Greipel's only 1 FL and Stamina better than Kittel, but he does has 3 less rec. What record does Kittel have in the classics to be so close? And why does Greipel have so much worse recovery when he won all but one sprint stages last year?
I can understand that a Kittel in his top shape has +1 Spr and +2 acc on Greipel, the problem is that you're using Algarve and Oman stages as evidence for Kittel being back at his 2014 Tour level. And even if he's at his top shape, Greipel should have better secondary stats to defend himself against Kittel explosiveness.
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| ziga007 |
Posted on 25-02-2016 14:48
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Why Kittel has the best avg?
Alberto Contador
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| matt17br |
Posted on 25-02-2016 14:51
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To be honest, I have no idea either. It could be that the formula that makes PCM calculate the average is slightly skimmed towards sprinters, because he most definitely hasn't got the best stats overall 
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| bob7 |
Posted on 25-02-2016 14:52
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Stagiare
Posts: 220
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Because of PCM calculation system. Usually sprinters have the best average stats. |
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| Anderis |
Posted on 25-02-2016 14:52
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Domestique
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I think TJVG is a bit underrated in COB. You put him on lower stat than Bardet and equal to Quintana, while he looked much more comfortable than that on cobbled stage in last TdF. He even made it into the first part of the split after last cobbled sector which consisted of only 8 riders.
Edited by Anderis on 25-02-2016 14:59
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| Forever the Best |
Posted on 25-02-2016 14:58
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Kittel 82 REC is way too high imo |
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| Anderis |
Posted on 25-02-2016 14:58
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Domestique
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matt17br wrote:
To be honest, I have no idea either. It could be that the formula that makes PCM calculate the average is slightly skimmed towards sprinters, because he most definitely hasn't got the best stats overall
I believe AVG value is calculated based on f_skill_ratio values in STA_type_rider.
For sprinters it's 0,3*ACC+0,6*SPR+0,1*STA
while for stage racers it's 0,9*MON+0,1*TT
At least in your last expansion pack. I've modified those values a bit for my improved progression database.
Edited by Anderis on 25-02-2016 14:59
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| Selwink |
Posted on 25-02-2016 14:58
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And why do you think that?
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| Forever the Best |
Posted on 25-02-2016 15:03
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Classics Specialist
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I think he gets spend on the mountain stages and can't perform as much as he used to on the 3rd week stages.
Or Sagan's and Greipel's 80 REC is too low. |
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| Selwink |
Posted on 25-02-2016 15:07
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The Schleck Fan wrote:
I think he gets spend on the mountain stages and can't perform as much as he used to on the 3rd week stages.
Or Sagan's and Greipel's 80 REC is too low.
You're aware Kittel won the stage on the Champs-Elysées both times he finished the TdF?
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| Forever the Best |
Posted on 25-02-2016 15:09
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Classics Specialist
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Selwink wrote:
The Schleck Fan wrote:
I think he gets spend on the mountain stages and can't perform as much as he used to on the 3rd week stages.
Or Sagan's and Greipel's 80 REC is too low.
You're aware Kittel won the stage on the Champs-Elysées both times he finished the TdF? Yes.Still don't get why his REC is the highest among sprinters though. |
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| matt17br |
Posted on 25-02-2016 15:16
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 10525
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Anderis wrote:
matt17br wrote:
To be honest, I have no idea either. It could be that the formula that makes PCM calculate the average is slightly skimmed towards sprinters, because he most definitely hasn't got the best stats overall
I believe AVG value is calculated based on f_skill_ratio values in STA_type_rider.
For sprinters it's 0,3*ACC+0,6*SPR+0,1*STA
while for stage racers it's 0,9*MON+0,1*TT
At least in your last expansion pack. I've modified those values a bit for my improved progression database.
That's not used to calculate the average since PCM 13. We don't know the current formulas.
Or Sagan's [...] 80 REC is too low.
Care to elaborate on this one...?
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