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PCMdaily DB Stat Discussion
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 26-05-2015 21:17
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Tour de France Champion
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lol. Landa beat Contador, who worked for 50 km. Besides that he beat Kruiswijk, Amador, Hesjedal, Trofimov, etc. There is no way he deserves 81 mtn. Although he has definitely proven he should get 78/79.
Hesjedal and Kruiswijk should also get a fighter boost. Aru's recovery should be bad.
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
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| Maddox |
Posted on 26-05-2015 21:30
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Neo-Pro
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baseballlover312 wrote:
lol. Landa beat Contador, who worked for 50 km. Besides that he beat Kruiswijk, Amador, Hesjedal, Trofimov, etc. There is no way he deserves 81 mtn. Although he has definitely proven he should get 78/79.
Hesjedal and Kruiswijk should also get a fighter boost. Aru's recovery should be bad.
Name a mountain stage in Giro d'Italia where Contador was stronger than Landa.
Nope, you can't. I thought so.
Edited by Maddox on 26-05-2015 21:31
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 26-05-2015 21:35
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Sprinter
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A lot of the riders are being over-hyped here, which is easy to do since that there is no Froome, Quintana, Nibali, Valverde, Rodriguez or Pinot here, all these are riders that are between 80-83 mtn.
Sometimes you have to read between the lines as well, I think Aru is underpowered due to being sick before the Giro and Landa is riding like a superman that looks like he's been hardly riding.
Landa has been riding like an 81/82 mtn but the problem with making Landa this high in the game, is that it will make him the team leader over Aru for the Giro for the game AI. I for one though will put Aru and Landa both quite high 80-82 in mtns so they can compete with Contador, as I know they're crap at TT and will never beat Contador in the Giro.
Riders like Kruiswijk are high fighter stats and on good form and Amador is a time trialist that can climb. Most of these riders are 77-79 mtns and on good form.
Edited by Tafiolmo on 26-05-2015 21:37
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| bob7 |
Posted on 26-05-2015 21:37
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Maddox wrote:
baseballlover312 wrote:
lol. Landa beat Contador, who worked for 50 km. Besides that he beat Kruiswijk, Amador, Hesjedal, Trofimov, etc. There is no way he deserves 81 mtn. Although he has definitely proven he should get 78/79.
Hesjedal and Kruiswijk should also get a fighter boost. Aru's recovery should be bad.
Name a mountain stage in Giro d'Italia where Contador was stronger than Landa.
Nope, you can't. I thought so.
I suppose you just don't like Contador. baseballlover312 wrote an excellent point and you are still unconvinced. |
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| Maddox |
Posted on 26-05-2015 21:47
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bob7 wrote:
Maddox wrote:
baseballlover312 wrote:
lol. Landa beat Contador, who worked for 50 km. Besides that he beat Kruiswijk, Amador, Hesjedal, Trofimov, etc. There is no way he deserves 81 mtn. Although he has definitely proven he should get 78/79.
Hesjedal and Kruiswijk should also get a fighter boost. Aru's recovery should be bad.
Name a mountain stage in Giro d'Italia where Contador was stronger than Landa.
Nope, you can't. I thought so.
I suppose you just don't like Contador. baseballlover312 wrote an excellent point and you are still unconvinced.
I am neither for or against Contador. And yes, Landa beat Kruijswijk, Amador etc. but he ALSO beat Contador. That is what really counts.
Edited by Maddox on 26-05-2015 21:51
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 26-05-2015 21:50
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Tour de France Champion
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Landa did not take a pull from the point Aru got dropped to the point he attacked. Contador was working the entire way. That plays a HUGE factor.
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 22-11-2024 19:52
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| Omloop |
Posted on 26-05-2015 21:51
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Domestique
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Maddox wrote:
bob7 wrote:
Maddox wrote:
baseballlover312 wrote:
lol. Landa beat Contador, who worked for 50 km. Besides that he beat Kruiswijk, Amador, Hesjedal, Trofimov, etc. There is no way he deserves 81 mtn. Although he has definitely proven he should get 78/79.
Hesjedal and Kruiswijk should also get a fighter boost. Aru's recovery should be bad.
Name a mountain stage in Giro d'Italia where Contador was stronger than Landa.
Nope, you can't. I thought so.
I suppose you just don't like Contador. baseballlover312 wrote an excellent point and you are still unconvinced.
I am neither for nor against Contador. And yes, Landa beat Kruijswijk, Amador etc. but he ALSO beat Contador. That is what really counts.
Well Geniez beat Uran today, doesn't mean he's a better climber. You need to see things in a longer perspective. |
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| Maddox |
Posted on 26-05-2015 21:54
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You are both right. But Landa has proved him better than Contador in the Giro so far - and that is a larger perpective. If Landa continues like this the rest of the Giro, he certainly derserves 80-81.
Then if he in the Vuelta or something is shit (and he is in-form), we can downgrade him again. |
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 26-05-2015 21:54
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Landa will probably continue with this form until the end of the Giro and then it will be either that he's a new cycling star or a one-race wonder, none of us will know until the next GT he's in. |
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| Maddox |
Posted on 26-05-2015 21:58
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Tafiolmo wrote:
Landa will probably continue with this form until the end of the Giro and then it will be either that he's a new cycling star or a one-race wonder, none of us will know until the next GT he's in.
Michele Bartoli told Rolf Sorensen before the Giro that Landa would win the Giro. I don't think he does, but it is thought-provoking that they saw it coming. |
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 26-05-2015 22:05
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Maddox wrote:
Tafiolmo wrote:
Landa will probably continue with this form until the end of the Giro and then it will be either that he's a new cycling star or a one-race wonder, none of us will know until the next GT he's in.
Michele Bartoli told Rolf Sorensen before the Giro that Landa would win the Giro. I don't think he does, but it is thought-provoking that they saw it coming.
If Landa is the new GT star then Astana will have Nibali, Aru and Landa. Personally I don't see a problem in giving Landa a high mtn stat as his TT is low for a GT contender. |
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| roturn |
Posted on 26-05-2015 22:07
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Maddox wrote:
You are both right. But Landa has proved him better than Contador in the Giro so far - and that is a larger perpective. If Landa continues like this the rest of the Giro, he certainly derserves 80-81.
Then if he in the Vuelta or something is shit (and he is in-form), we can downgrade him again.
The problem with this thinking though is, that the DB is not for stage races only. Then you could obviously make a Giro DB, a Vuelta DB etc.
But when playing a longer career then the Giro 2015 is definitely not a larger perspective. It`s a tiny, tiny perspective and only reflects the actual form.
With this reasoning, surely you could give Landa a Contador like stat. But then several others would need higher stats as well and in the end you would have a DB full of 79+ climbers. Several 81+ climbers are not in the Giro even. So judging is difficult and more complex.
When highering Landa this much, he would in PCM ride in his actual Giro form all season, while he didn`t in RL. So you can`t judge a rider`s stat by only one race when trying to create a career DB.
Edited by roturn on 26-05-2015 22:07
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| Maddox |
Posted on 26-05-2015 22:18
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roturn wrote:
Maddox wrote:
You are both right. But Landa has proved him better than Contador in the Giro so far - and that is a larger perpective. If Landa continues like this the rest of the Giro, he certainly derserves 80-81.
Then if he in the Vuelta or something is shit (and he is in-form), we can downgrade him again.
The problem with this thinking though is, that the DB is not for stage races only. Then you could obviously make a Giro DB, a Vuelta DB etc.
But when playing a longer career then the Giro 2015 is definitely not a larger perspective. It`s a tiny, tiny perspective and only reflects the actual form.
With this reasoning, surely you could give Landa a Contador like stat. But then several others would need higher stats as well and in the end you would have a DB full of 79+ climbers. Several 81+ climbers are not in the Giro even. So judging is difficult and more complex.
When highering Landa this much, he would in PCM ride in his actual Giro form all season, while he didn`t in RL. So you can`t judge a rider`s stat by only one race when trying to create a career DB.
When a rider shows a high level, sure it deserver to be reflected in his stats.
And no, you would not end to have a DB full if 79+ climbers. Landa has shown high class, which should be rewarded in his stats.
Otherwise, with that logic, you can argue that it is the same thing with Aru. Last year he was only good in the Giro as Landa is now. In thi year's Giro, Aru can't follow Trofimov, Amador etc. on days like this, so should he suddenly be only 76-77? Nahh, that logic doesn't make any sense at all.
And now I will go to bed  |
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 26-05-2015 22:25
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If only Aru had won two Vuelta stages and finished 5th in the GC and had finished 9th in a Monument, then we could justify his high stats. But alas he was only good in the Giro and is therefore over-rated...
Equally i love all this Giro talk. It's as if it were over already and not just beginning the final week. What if Landa blows up on the remaining mountain stages? Then this discussion becomes somewhat moot. Wait for the race to finish first, then decide what stats you'd give to riders.
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| Maddox |
Posted on 26-05-2015 22:28
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TheManxMissile wrote:
If only Aru had won two Vuelta stages and finished 5th in the GC and had finished 9th in a Monument, then we could justify his high stats. But alas he was only good in the Giro and is therefore over-rated...
Equally i love all this Giro talk. It's as if it were over already and not just beginning the final week. What if Landa blows up on the remaining mountain stages? Then this discussion becomes somewhat moot. Wait for the race to finish first, then decide what stats you'd give to riders.
Ah, my mistake.
And yes, if Landa blows up, we can have this talk again. But until now he has shown high level of mountain skills. |
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| sgdanny |
Posted on 26-05-2015 22:30
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Plus look at Alaphilippe, how on earth did he get such a high upgrade, just because he did well in 3 classics. Landa could in my eyes probably only have taken 2 more minutes on Contador.
So giving Landa a higher MO Stat around 79-80 wouldn't change much, other than he would suddenly challenge guys like Purito, which he should be able to do. Fact is that Landa deserve 78+ at minimum. The key to find the correct Stat isn't by comparing to others, but the goal is to enable him to repeat this in PCM.
To repeat a 2nd place and riding away from a 83 MO, he would need 80. So that would set him on level with Porte, which also would assume his weakness in time trials, against the riders on the same level.
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 26-05-2015 22:39
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sgdanny wrote:
Plus look at Alaphilippe, how on earth did he get such a high upgrade, just because he did well in 3 classics. Landa could in my eyes probably only have taken 2 more minutes on Contador.
So giving Landa a higher MO Stat around 79-80 wouldn't change much, other than he would suddenly challenge guys like Purito, which he should be able to do. Fact is that Landa deserve 78+ at minimum. The key to find the correct Stat isn't by comparing to others, but the goal is to enable him to repeat this in PCM.
To repeat a 2nd place and riding away from a 83 MO, he would need 80. So that would set him on level with Porte, which also would assume his weakness in time trials, against the riders on the same level.
Well if you want an exact replica of what's happening Landa needs to be 82-83 to ride away from Contador, but then again as Roturn said changes in a db will affect all other races and not just the Giro. Since the Giro started Landa has been rated between 82 and 76 that's a 6 point differential which is a huge difference and not the 1 or 2 points that we normally debate over. Alaphilippe in the Ardennes classics raised similar problems as well, let's just be grateful that Zakarin isn't competing for a podium position in the Giro, because he's something like 72 only.
Edited by Tafiolmo on 26-05-2015 22:41
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| gotlandrules |
Posted on 26-05-2015 23:42
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baseballlover312 wrote:
lol. Landa beat Contador, who worked for 50 km. Besides that he beat Kruiswijk, Amador, Hesjedal, Trofimov, etc. There is no way he deserves 81 mtn. Although he has definitely proven he should get 78/79.
Hesjedal and Kruiswijk should also get a fighter boost. Aru's recovery should be bad.
Why would Aru get bad REC? Podium on Giro, 5th in the Vuelta and on the way to another podium in this Giro, he should clearly have good REC, not elite but good. |
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 26-05-2015 23:48
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By bad, I don't mean bad, obviously. But a bit under most contenders. He peaked a bit early it seems and he isn't holding his top form. So I'd dock him just a bit.
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
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| gotlandrules |
Posted on 27-05-2015 00:55
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baseballlover312 wrote:
By bad, I don't mean bad, obviously. But a bit under most contenders. He peaked a bit early it seems and he isn't holding his top form. So I'd dock him just a bit.
Think that has more to do with his illness before the Giro then him having worse REC or peaking early. |
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![imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg](https://imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg)
