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PCM.daily DB Stats discussion
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 13-06-2014 17:12
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Tour de France Champion
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valverde321 wrote:
baseballlover312 wrote:
atlanta wrote:
Ah ok. Well still think he will be better than TJVG and Talansky by a long way. Put it this way every year he improves
So does Talansky... though I'd say TVG has stalled a lot.
But Tejay looks like he can actually keep up with the big guys on climbs now. That was his biggest fault was that he wasn't really that great of a climber. Thats a huge improvement for him, so I dont see how that is stalling.
But half of the time he's also cracking... I haven't seen his level improve since 2012. Sometimes he has good days.
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| valverde321 |
Posted on 13-06-2014 17:18
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baseballlover312 wrote:
valverde321 wrote:
baseballlover312 wrote:
atlanta wrote:
Ah ok. Well still think he will be better than TJVG and Talansky by a long way. Put it this way every year he improves
So does Talansky... though I'd say TVG has stalled a lot.
But Tejay looks like he can actually keep up with the big guys on climbs now. That was his biggest fault was that he wasn't really that great of a climber. Thats a huge improvement for him, so I dont see how that is stalling.
But half of the time he's also cracking... I haven't seen his level improve since 2012. Sometimes he has good days.
Last year he couldn't beat guys from the American Tour like Acevedo. Now he's beating or keeping up with Froome, Contador, Uran, Purito etc in his better races. Thats a huge improvement.
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 13-06-2014 17:20
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Tour de France Champion
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valverde321 wrote:
baseballlover312 wrote:
valverde321 wrote:
baseballlover312 wrote:
atlanta wrote:
Ah ok. Well still think he will be better than TJVG and Talansky by a long way. Put it this way every year he improves
So does Talansky... though I'd say TVG has stalled a lot.
But Tejay looks like he can actually keep up with the big guys on climbs now. That was his biggest fault was that he wasn't really that great of a climber. Thats a huge improvement for him, so I dont see how that is stalling.
But half of the time he's also cracking... I haven't seen his level improve since 2012. Sometimes he has good days.
Last year he couldn't beat guys from the American Tour like Acevedo. Now he's beating or keeping up with Froome, Contador, Uran, Purito etc in his better races. Thats a huge improvement.
He had a bad year last year IMO. In the 2012 TDF e was right with the 2nd tier contenders.
He's still improving and I am a big fan of him so I won't complain or argue it. Hope he does great in Le Tour as well as Talansky.
My point is that Talansky seems to get substantially better every year.
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| Anderis |
Posted on 13-06-2014 19:38
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Domestique
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baseballlover312 wrote:
My point is that Talansky seems to get substantially better every year.
Dunno if substantailly better every year is the right word.
2012:
7th Vuelta
2nd Tour de Romandie
1st Tour de l'Ain
2013:
10th Tour de France
2nd Paris-Nice
6th Criterium International
That doesn't look like a huge leap forward. This year can be better if he can keep up his perofrmance from Dauphine so far. |
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| atlanta |
Posted on 13-06-2014 19:43
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Out of the two i see more promise in TJVG as you say Valverde he can keep up look at Catalunya he won a mountain stage. Imo i just don't think Talansky deserves 78. He is not better than Kelderman uphill also Kelderman is younger.
I suppose you could say well as he is younger he will get better than Talansky but i don't see it. Talansky is always a 80 climber with good recovery in mine Kelderman never reaches that, mostly he is 77/77, sometimes 78 if im lucky. |
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 13-06-2014 19:58
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Tour de France Champion
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Anderis wrote:
baseballlover312 wrote:
My point is that Talansky seems to get substantially better every year.
Dunno if substantailly better every year is the right word.
2012:
7th Vuelta
2nd Tour de Romandie
1st Tour de l'Ain
2013:
10th Tour de France
2nd Paris-Nice
6th Criterium International
That doesn't look like a huge leap forward. This year can be better if he can keep up his perofrmance from Dauphine so far.
That barely tells the whole story.
In that race he did well by consistency, but he was well behind the top guys. This year and last he has been actually with the leaders on many occasions. Dauphine for example.
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| atlanta |
Posted on 13-06-2014 20:07
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Yes and out of most of them he was only their because they kept stopping. Talansky got blow away last km. |
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 13-06-2014 20:10
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Tour de France Champion
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atlanta wrote:
Yes and out of most of them he was only their because they kept stopping. Talansky got blow away last km.
He never cracked, he just couldn't match the acceleration. Nibali also got dropped. Doesn't prove much.
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| atlanta |
Posted on 13-06-2014 20:13
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No but he as not really stayed with the big guys has he. He would have lost alot of time if they were riding full stop. They were that slow that he was allowed back to make the pace again.
I don't want to sound like im hating on Talansky as he is a great bike rider, who can basically get a top 10 at each GT he picks. I just think Kelderman and Talansky should have same stats, with WK having higher potential by 1, but that is just me.
Edited by atlanta on 13-06-2014 20:14
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 13-06-2014 20:15
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atlanta wrote:
No but he as not really stayed with the big guys has he. He would have lost alot of time if they were riding full stop. They were that slow that he was allowed back to make the pace again.
I don't want to sound like im hating on Talansky as he is a great bike rider, who can basically get a top 10 at each GT he picks. I just think Kelderman and Talansky should have same stats, with WK having higher potential by 1, but that is just me.
Agree on the first part, not the second. but that will just be what it is.
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| atlanta |
Posted on 13-06-2014 20:18
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Yes im not saying mine is right just we obvi have diff opinions.
Would you say same stats and same potential?, as i think they are very close. Or maybe give Talnsky better stats with Kelderman 6 potential, Talansky 5?. What is Talansky pot at them moment?. |
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 13-06-2014 20:22
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Tour de France Champion
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atlanta wrote:
Yes im not saying mine is right just we obvi have diff opinions.
Would you say same stats and same potential?, as i think they are very close. Or maybe give Talnsky better stats with Kelderman 6 potential, Talansky 5?. What is Talansky pot at them moment?.
I think Kelderman should have better potential than Talansky at this point.
However, there is no good way to do this. Giving Kelderman 7 with his stats is not an option because he could get too strong. Giving Talansky 5 does not allow for enough improvement based on his current stats. I think the only thing a DB maker can do is give both a 6.
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| atlanta |
Posted on 13-06-2014 20:25
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Yes you are right. 5 potential on last game i played before this years was 2011.And riders like Scarponi would have 4 potential and could still get 2 pts in mountain. They messed the potential up imo.
I think fair way then if we gave both same pot is give Kelderman 78, Talansky 77 . |
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| Naskela |
Posted on 13-06-2014 20:36
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baseballlover312 wrote:
atlanta wrote:
Ah ok. Well still think he will be better than TJVG and Talansky by a long way. Put it this way every year he improves
So does Talansky... though I'd say TVG has stalled a lot.
How has TVG stalled he have done his best spring season ever and what he did in Oman was convincing that he made Hugh steps this season i would probably put Van Garderen 78M0, Talansky and Kelderman at 77 with the same potential when it comes to END and REC i dunno! (Sorry Jesleyh please dont ban me from the community)
Edited by Naskela on 13-06-2014 20:40
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| atlanta |
Posted on 13-06-2014 20:39
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Naskela wrote:
baseballlover312 wrote:
atlanta wrote:
Ah ok. Well still think he will be better than TJVG and Talansky by a long way. Put it this way every year he improves
So does Talansky... though I'd say TVG has stalled a lot.
How has TVG stalled he have done his best spring season ever and what he did in Oman was convincing that he made Hugh steps this season i would probably put Van Garderen 78M0, Talansky and Kelderman at 77 with the same potential when it comes to END and REC i dunno!
He also won a mountain stage in Catalunya. He is as good as Kelderman probably right now maybe better but i doubt he will in 2 years. I agree TJVG is a tiny bit above Talansky but lets see in few weeks. |
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| Naskela |
Posted on 13-06-2014 20:47
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Stagiare
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He also won a mountain stage in Catalunya. He is as good as Kelderman probably right now maybe better but i doubt he will in 2 years. I agree TJVG is a tiny bit above Talansky but lets see in few weeks.
You might be right that TVG and Kelderman deserves the same MO stats but i feel somethings wrong giving a rider places 7th in the Giro 78 when Mollema was given 78 after last years tour which were more impressive in my opinion and would be more wrong giving them 77 and Talansky 76... im glad i don't make stats for the coming db coz that seems impossible to get right!
Edited by Naskela on 13-06-2014 20:48
AG2R La Mondiale / Issy Paris Hand / Le Havre AC
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| Anderis |
Posted on 14-06-2014 16:20
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Domestique
Posts: 471
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Talansky gives another hint that we should consider at least 78 MO for him.
How much prologues skill does Slagter have in the game? 65 or so? He finished 8th today in TdS! Definetely an upgrade.
I also remind you that Haas also needs an upgrade in prologues (5th in Herald Sun Tour and 10th in Criterium International this year). |
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 14-06-2014 16:25
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Tour de France Champion
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So, do you still think TVG deserves more mtn than Talansky?
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| 547984 |
Posted on 14-06-2014 18:32
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Yes, because I still need to see a Top 5 in the Tour from Talansky.
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| Naskela |
Posted on 14-06-2014 19:42
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Stagiare
Posts: 204
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baseballlover312 wrote:
So, do you still think TVG deserves more mtn than Talansky?
Ok let me clarify I said a few days ago that Talansky deserved 78 but changed my mind because i don't like giving a rider who don't have any top results from one of the GT that high in mtn so i would wait until at least mid tour before giving him that. but by all means it looking promising
Edited by Naskela on 14-06-2014 19:44
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