alexkr00 wrote:
I'm not really sure how getting rid of 3rd and 4th category climbs would stop someone who goes in the breakaway in the one big mountain stage of the Tour. If anything, it would help them.
The 3rd and 4th category climbs have a very clear purpose of having the riders that go in the breakaway in the first week something to fight for. In this regard, I actually prefer the old system where they gave slightly more points since now only the first rider over a 4th category climb is actually given something.
Replace the cat 3/4 sprints with one "Team Sprint" each day. The first rider over the line gets a 10 second bonus they can give to any rider on their team. That'll give the break riders something to ride for
There are people complaining about team - time trials. Imagine if this was to be implemented
It'd be great. Imagine if it was close in the last week. Ineos and Movistar would have to send riders into the break everyday.
"Ringo is exactly right", Shonak - 8 September 2016
Changing the points won't help if no climber is interested in the jersey to begin with. Bardet only made a goal of it because he f'ed up his GC early on. The major issue that no climber was interested in the jersey.
Taking a look at the startlist:
Sky = too many gc ambitions
Bora = all for Buchmann top 10 place
Quick Step = maybe Ala would have gone for it if not for the yellow
AG2R = Bardet thinks he can win the race
Bahrain = both Nibali and Caruso not that interested
FDJ = Pinot
Movistar = they have at least 5 riders that could win it, no one cares
Astana = not interested despite having a few good climbers that will never podium the race
Jumbo = all for Kriujiujswijijk
EF = all for Uran
Michelton = even after Adam cracked and having a good shot at it, Simon was not interested
CCC = didn't even bother to bring a climber (do they even have one?)
UAE = they all were crap and didn't bother with anything
Lotto = Wellens yes, De Gendt or Benoot could've been the better option though
Direct Energy = were they even in the race?
Katusha = Zakarin could have gone for it instead of what he did now
Wanty = Martin will never win this race, so he could try something else
DDD = Kreuziger same thing
Arkea = Barguil already won it but didn't seem that interested this year
None of the guys that could win it actually made a goal out of it. That's the big problem. Maybe give it some WT ranking points?
Apparently UAE's failure during the tour was due to a experimental sports drink they started using during the tour. Dan Martin, Kristoff and several others have been out saying they have been feeling heavy and tired. One rider has supposedly gained weight after three weeks of racing. Must be a whole lot wrong with that team when Kristoff have been struggling with his chain falling out on a couple stages as well.
I've heard too that driving towards the Nimes rest day, the soigneurs forgot about the particularly long transfer and didnt have enough food prepared for the riders and they had to stop in a gas station to get sandwiches.
Ollfardh wrote:
Wellens doesn't climb well enough for the big mountains. Him winning it would've been worse then Bardet imo. Not saying Anthony Charteau bad, but still bad.
But at least Wellens tried to win it. Bardet won it by accident. You shouldn't be able to win a Tour de France jersey by accident.
Was he sprinting by accident at the top of the climbs?
Of course he didn't sprint by accident, that's just silly.
But he had no intention of going for the KOM until he got in the break on that day. He earned 4/5ths of his points in one day and then didn't pick up a single further KOM point in the last 2 mountain stages. He didn't even win any of the KOM sprints on that day. His other points were earned on stage 15, when he got out-climbed by Simon Geschke.
You shouldn't be able to win the KOM jersey by getting into one break on one day in a 3 week race. He scored KOM points on 2 out of 21 stages and won. He didn't pick up a single point until stage 15, and won.
I agree with you on the fact it should take more effort to win the KOM jersey, just like sprinters do to get Green (Sagan breakaways + sprints). However, like somebody said, its the best climber jersey, and not the best puncheur jersey, and that's the reason Bardet won over Wellens, as Tim couldn't score on the bigger climbs over 2000 meters. Was Bardet the best climber in the TDF? Definately not, but he's a much better climber than some of the last few winners of that competition, so I can't be upset about the result. They should definately review the competition, it just doesn't spike interest to the riders, and it certainly doesn't define the best climber of a race anymore, that's for sure. The days of Yellow Jersey vs KOM Jersey for the GC are long gone it seems...
Kirchen_75 wrote:
Ala crushing the Super Combatif award on twitter. 8.2k votes. De Gendt 2nd with 2k
There isn't another choice there really... I like TdG, but he didn't break away as much this year (he should have won in '16), I guess only Wellens or maybe Nibali could get it with their breakaways, but in the end Alaphilippe made this TDF what it was, and therefore he deserves to be on the podium in Paris. The ovation he will get will be nuts!
I honestly would've loved to see Offredo taking it... He was in front of the boring stages, got sick, rode entire stages by himself whilst sick, survived it all, and rode till the end of the Tour, this, 4 months after a serious crash to his head and back, and 2 months after another brutal crash in Dunkirk. Sure Alaphillipe deserved it, maybe just as much, but I would think they would at least take Offredo a bit more seriously.
Agree on this. Also most Combatitive imo is for the rider that has impressed the most with breakaways. Alaphilippe did not, he just did what everybody would try to do: defend his jersey for the longest possible time. I may have a view on this that is not as romantic as it should be, but Alaphilippe is defintely the wrong choice for me, and in fact I would've liked 10 other riders ahead of him.
For me I'd have liked Romain Bardet, Yoann Offredo, Stephane Rossetto, Nils Politt, Simon Yates, Greg van Avermaet, Alexey Lutsenko or even Nairo freakin Quintana more.
So the points jersey is also just for the best sprinter? There are many fighters in this Tour and many breakaways. I dont see anyone of those guys standing out, especially not those listed when one begins with out of form lucky Bardet who somehow ended up with that jersey with winning no big mountain, and ends with that diva Quintana who doesnt even pull for his teammmate in a break or fights for KOM on the penultimate stage.
Award is for the guy with the most fighting heart, and that was Alaphilippe all throughout three weeks. Vive la Voecklerling!
It is absolutely wrong to compare those two jerseys, as one is measured objectively and one is measured subjectively.
I don't think Alaphilippe showed the most fighting heart. I think he had the biggest platform to show it with his yellow jersey and being a french guy that doesn't usually do well at mountains. He just tried what everybody would've tried, constantly going for breakaways.
Offredo on the other side constantly went into attacks no matter how unrealistic it was. He showed real fighting hart by batteling against all odds and the breakaway. He dared many times to try attacks, while Alaphilippe only did stuff to animate the race on a couple of stages.
Of course, that is very popular, as he is in the yellow jersey and a French guy and popular. BUT in my opinion he tried nothing special, and the myth of his ride is mostly driven by the hype around his person and media coverage.
Combativity award should be about fighting to get into breakaways and then again once you get there, not defending yellow jerseys. There is a reason there is no such award in time - trial stages.
Havnt watched that lance's podcast in a long time but the parts with TVG are really interesting, very insightful comments by Tejay and also George.
Great to see Tj on the show, his insights into the current state of racing was tremendous. However, his unwillingness to go with George for the win was a cop out..
