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PCM.daily DB Stats discussion
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| I_Mayo |
Posted on 11-06-2014 15:58
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TimoCycling wrote:
Why Talansky and VdB so high? They were not better than Kelderman, and he only gets 77 according to most around here.
Yes they are better, at least until proven otherwise. Remember that VDB and Talansky are supposed to be in worse shape than Kelderman right now, but they are performing on same level, so make your own conclusions. |
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| Ruben18 |
Posted on 11-06-2014 15:59
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TimoCycling wrote:
Why Talansky and VdB so high? They were not better than Kelderman, and he only gets 77 according to most around here.
I think Kelderman must be 78 and low rec |
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| Riis123 |
Posted on 11-06-2014 16:05
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Grand Tour Specialist
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TimoCycling wrote:
Why Talansky and VdB so high? They were not better than Kelderman, and he only gets 77 according to most around here.
I would say you dont wanna use that stage and forget about everything else. Firstly, it was the first day of the race, 30 degrees and many of the rider havent raced in 1-2 months. Some guys just couldnt adjust, like fx. Van Garderen who i believe is in great shape actually. Secondly, this is Dauphine, not Tour de France. A guy like Van den Broeck hardly is in his best shape atm and has said numerous times leading up to the race that his Tour even still was in jeopardy, cause he wasnt sure how good he actually was. Talansky isnt in his top shape either with goes for almost every contender in this race, maybe apart from Kelderman, who have come very strong out of the Giro and is in excellent shape. Thirdly, even though I dont play the game and not know the stats, you dont wanna make stats based on that white/black thinking: "If x rides as fast as x, that means they are equal". As i said before, JDV and Kelderman are in different points of their respective formcurves.
In general, I think you have to be very cautious making stats based on a race like Dauphine, especialy just the one stage which was mentioned., People wanna win here, but the main goal afterall is to be as ready for the Tour as possible. |
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| gotlandrules |
Posted on 11-06-2014 16:07
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Kelderman is a 77 to me. |
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| MARSUPILAMI |
Posted on 11-06-2014 16:10
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I will put to VDB, Talansky and Kelderman those stats in my DB:
Van den Broeck 78/77 MO, 77/76 HIL, 69 TT
Talansky 77 MO, 76 HIL, 73 TT
Kelderman 76 MO, 77 HIL, 75 TT
I think this will help you to make PCMDaily´s DB
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| Jesleyh |
Posted on 11-06-2014 16:21
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Tour de France Champion
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Smart advertising 
Kelderman really isn't a puncher though 
Feyenoord(football) and Kelderman fanboy
PCMdaily Awards: 12x nomination, 9x runner-up, 0x win.
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 11-06-2014 16:56
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World Champion
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Van den Broeck is one of the best climbers in the world, or he wouldn't get 2 4th places in TDF with crappy time trial skills. Unfortunately he can't seem to get a good result in any other race, and he was unlucky crashing out of the 2011 en 2013 TDF or he might have been close to or even on the podium.
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| Jesleyh |
Posted on 11-06-2014 19:10
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Tour de France Champion
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VdB has the Andy Schleck problem(the light version though ). Does well at the Tour and rarely gets world-top non-Tour results. He crashed out too early in 2013 to convince us he's still one of the best, and he lacks other results to prove that.
He's on a good way now, though.
Feyenoord(football) and Kelderman fanboy
PCMdaily Awards: 12x nomination, 9x runner-up, 0x win.
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| I_Mayo |
Posted on 11-06-2014 20:27
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Jesleyh wrote:
VdB has the Andy Schleck problem(the light version though ). Does well at the Tour and rarely gets world-top non-Tour results. He crashed out too early in 2013 to convince us he's still one of the best, and he lacks other results to prove that.
He's on a good way now, though.
VDB doesn't have to convince anyone. And didn't we all agree did just because of one bad season (if you can call it bad, when he couldn't prove himself because of objective reasons) riders won't be punished in stats department.?
So VDB should be a top 10 climber and a definite at least 78 MO.
Also how can you make that comparison with Andy?
Beginning from 2010:
3x top 5 Dauphine
3x 2nd Andalucia
1x top 3 and top 10 Catalunya
And so on... (top 10 in other stage races and also in FW)
Edited by I_Mayo on 11-06-2014 20:31
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| Alakagom |
Posted on 11-06-2014 20:28
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World Champion
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And so he is.
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| Jesleyh |
Posted on 11-06-2014 20:35
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Yes, he is 78MO. Well, I said ''light'', I_Mayo. Of course he does more than Andy(not hard), but he does never really focus on anything but the TdF.
I wasn't saying he should have the same stats as Andy. Just that higher than he has now is too early.
Feyenoord(football) and Kelderman fanboy
PCMdaily Awards: 12x nomination, 9x runner-up, 0x win.
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 23-11-2024 18:14
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| I_Mayo |
Posted on 11-06-2014 20:43
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Jesleyh wrote:
Yes, he is 78MO. Well, I said ''light'', I_Mayo. Of course he does more than Andy(not hard), but he does never really focus on anything but the TdF.
I wasn't saying he should have the same stats as Andy. Just that higher than he has now is too early.
Oh, I took it as if you said that has to prove that he deserves for that 78 to stay. My fault. |
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| atlanta |
Posted on 11-06-2014 21:53
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82/78, 76 ITT for Contador. |
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| atlanta |
Posted on 11-06-2014 21:54
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Also the recovery need's redoing we no for a fact bar injury Contador or Froome will be top 2, so Contaodor should not have such a crap recovery like 76. |
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| Anderis |
Posted on 11-06-2014 22:27
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MARSUPILAMI wrote:
I will put to VDB, Talansky and Kelderman those stats in my DB:
Van den Broeck 78/77 MO, 77/76 HIL, 69 TT
Talansky 77 MO, 76 HIL, 73 TT
Kelderman 76 MO, 77 HIL, 75 TT
I think this will help you to make PCMDaily´s DB
73TT seems harsh for Talansky. |
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 11-06-2014 22:32
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Anderis wrote:
MARSUPILAMI wrote:
I will put to VDB, Talansky and Kelderman those stats in my DB:
Van den Broeck 78/77 MO, 77/76 HIL, 69 TT
Talansky 77 MO, 76 HIL, 73 TT
Kelderman 76 MO, 77 HIL, 75 TT
I think this will help you to make PCMDaily´s DB
73TT seems harsh for Talansky.
Very harsh. Right after he gets 4th in Dauphine TT.
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 11-06-2014 22:34
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About VDB, I think he doesn't get enough credit from the DB makers. I know he's hard to judge because of his Tour-only-policy, but saying he's not that good anymore because of his crash last year is a bit harsh in my opinion. I mean, there have been plenty of other and older riders that didn't get a decline because of an injury. The guy is 31, so while a decline is not entirely out of the question, giving him the benefit of the doubt seems more logical. There is no elements that indicate he's no longer able to perform on his 2012 level. In fact, the preperation races show he's pretty much the same as he was in the previous years.
Again, I know it's hard to put a number on him because he only likes the Tour, but I feel some riders are getting away with an injury/crash while other riders get a stat decline immediatly. If you look at the Tour minus the crashes, I think we can all agree VDB is close to the top 5 GT racers.
So my main points is that some consistency would be recommended when it comes to handling injured/sick/crashed out riders.
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 11-06-2014 22:54
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73 is way too low for Talansky TT, I'd say he was about 75.
Any opinions on Alex Dowsett's TT and Pro? I have him at 77 in both but given that he's just set the 10 mile record and won a TT at last years Giro I think they might not be high enough. I've upped him to 78 in Prologue but not sure. |
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| toon83 |
Posted on 12-06-2014 17:56
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depeche92 wrote:
toon83 wrote:
I am looking to adjust the stats of the Bardiani team.
I want to alter the stats for Battaglin, Bongiorno, Barbin and Pirazzi and wondered if anyone had any advice on which stats I should add to.
Thanks.
................RY MO SP AC HIL
Battaglin....72 72 72 73 74
Barbin........68 71 69 72 72
Bongiorno...67 73 63 73 74
Pirazzi........69 74 62 72 73
Zardini.......66 73 60 70 72
What is RY? |
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| atlanta |
Posted on 12-06-2014 18:16
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flat |
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