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Vuelta a España 2011
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 04-09-2011 19:10
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ruben wrote:
Funny how so many accept Froome's efforts as normal, but Cobo, who has done and proven far more, is suspect.
I'm disgusted by some users double standards
Wiggo was already suspect in TDF 2009 (Aicar, anyone ?). Froome's performance this Vuelta is surprising as well.
But Cobo is yet another story. The guy won a TDF stage for Saunier Duval (!) when his team mates were Ricco and Piepoli (!!). That says more than enough about him. |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 04-09-2011 19:14
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I agree Ruben. These performances are suspect. Mollema for example has improved tremendously in such a short time
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| cactus-jack |
Posted on 04-09-2011 19:15
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Children, play nice!
There's no point in arguing over who is the most suspisious rider in the Vuelta. They are all clean as a whistle untill they are caught. IF they are caught, that is.
Untill then, good job!
Edited by cactus-jack on 04-09-2011 19:15
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| Smowz |
Posted on 04-09-2011 19:15
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Very proud of the way that Froome and Wiggins fought tooth and nail up that last climb.
Credit to Cobo, he has look the strongest all weekend and has raced pretty smart, he probably didn't need to necessarily go as early as he did today (didn't gain huge chunks of time early). But he proved on the steeper sections he is very strong and Geox have played the time bonuses game pretty well too.
Talk of doping is inevitable but depressing, I have to take the performances at face value. Yes it is surprising to see a whole bunch of new names up there but this is the Vuelta there are so many different form factors to consider. More depressing for us Brits is news like footballer Jack Wilshire being injured for six weeks is more important than anything that is going on in the Vuelta.
Going on from here it, Geox should be pretty comfortable with two grand tour champions + De La Fuente and Duarte to work for Cobo. Hard to see how Mollema, Wiggins, Monfort or Froome (or anyone else) can really do anything on Wednesday or in the Basque country.
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 25-11-2024 19:55
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| mb2612 |
Posted on 04-09-2011 19:16
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I_Mayo wrote:
Ha ha, where are now these all, who said that Wiggins and Froome just let go Cobo yesterday?
And if you talk about "walking positive test". Than I can make the same argument about the guy who rode track cycling his whole career or some Kenyan, whose biggest achievement thus far was stage win in Tour of Mauritius.
He won a stage in the Giro del Capo, the biggest stage race in South Africa, much more prestigious.
As far as suspicious goes, Sky came out of Equipe's leaked list pretty badly, with Wiggins looking suspicious. Froome has nothing against him apart from climbing well, which is not a great metric for deciding who is doped.
 [url=www.pcmdaily.com/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=33182] Team Santander Media Thread[/url]
Please assume I am joking unless otherwise stated |
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| I_Mayo |
Posted on 04-09-2011 19:31
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issoisso wrote:
I agree Ruben. These performances are suspect. Mollema for example has improved tremendously in such a short time
But Mollema was a very talented rider in junior years and his bad results in start of his professional career can be explained by illness and injuries. His result in Vuelta isn't also from nowhere, because he already had some good results in 2010 and 2011 it just got better. While Froome's performance for me is coming from nowhere. |
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| The-Pot |
Posted on 04-09-2011 19:55
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Actually, it wouldn't be a bad tactic to dope the leader's closest team mate, giving him an unfair advantage but still keep the win if the team mate is caught (if the leader wins overall, that is). |
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| mb2612 |
Posted on 04-09-2011 19:56
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I_Mayo wrote:
issoisso wrote:
I agree Ruben. These performances are suspect. Mollema for example has improved tremendously in such a short time
But Mollema was a very talented rider in junior years and his bad results in start of his professional career can be explained by illness and injuries. His result in Vuelta isn't also from nowhere, because he already had some good results in 2010 and 2011 it just got better. While Froome's performance for me is coming from nowhere.
If you want I can give the exact same argument for Froome.
[url=www.pcmdaily.com/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=33182] Team Santander Media Thread[/url]
Please assume I am joking unless otherwise stated |
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 04-09-2011 20:16
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cactus-jack wrote:
Children, play nice!
There's no point in arguing over who is the most suspisious rider in the Vuelta. They are all clean as a whistle untill they are caught. IF they are caught, that is.
Untill then, good job!
No, they are free to ride until they're caught. That doesn't mean they're clean or not. Being clean has to do with taking drugs/dope or not, being guilty has to do with being caught.
Sometimes some guys are obviously on dope, though not caught, that doesn't mean they're clean, thankfully. |
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| I_Mayo |
Posted on 04-09-2011 20:21
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mb2612 wrote:
I_Mayo wrote:
issoisso wrote:
I agree Ruben. These performances are suspect. Mollema for example has improved tremendously in such a short time
But Mollema was a very talented rider in junior years and his bad results in start of his professional career can be explained by illness and injuries. His result in Vuelta isn't also from nowhere, because he already had some good results in 2010 and 2011 it just got better. While Froome's performance for me is coming from nowhere.
If you want I can give the exact same argument for Froome.
Give it! |
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| jph27 |
Posted on 04-09-2011 20:22
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Funny how the thread turns into a doping discussion. No way is Cobo Clean, but he's not the only one. |
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| DJP19 |
Posted on 04-09-2011 20:30
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The one rider who probably stopped doping after last year is Anton. How can he focus all year on this race and do so poorly. He had a bit of juice today, but clearly it wasn't enough.
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| Spilak23 |
Posted on 04-09-2011 20:45
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DJP19 wrote:
The one rider who probably stopped doping after last year is Anton. How can he focus all year on this race and do so poorly. He had a bit of juice today, but clearly it wasn't enough.
He lost a lot of weight the last month. Too much. Two years ago his legs were as big as Bert Grabsch his legs (almost tough) but now his legs are very small. So he has less power in his legs and that is a problem.
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| I_Mayo |
Posted on 04-09-2011 20:52
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A little fact for fun:
Contador in 2008 last 6 km did in 23'45, while Cobo today did last 6 km in 23'48. |
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| Wilier |
Posted on 04-09-2011 21:04
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I_Mayo wrote:
A little fact for fun:
Contador in 2008 last 6 km did in 23'45, while Cobo today did last 6 km in 23'48.
Do you happen to know the times for the whole climb? |
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| I_Mayo |
Posted on 04-09-2011 21:44
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Wilier wrote:
I_Mayo wrote:
A little fact for fun:
Contador in 2008 last 6 km did in 23'45, while Cobo today did last 6 km in 23'48.
Do you happen to know the times for the whole climb?
43'12 for Contador and 43'44 for Cobo. |
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| ruben |
Posted on 04-09-2011 22:09
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issoisso wrote:
I agree Ruben. These performances are suspect. Mollema for example has improved tremendously in such a short time
Stop trolling. Mollema can hardly be a suprise, he is one of the least suprising this Vuelta imho. |
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| ruben |
Posted on 04-09-2011 22:14
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mb2612 wrote:
I_Mayo wrote:
issoisso wrote:
I agree Ruben. These performances are suspect. Mollema for example has improved tremendously in such a short time
But Mollema was a very talented rider in junior years and his bad results in start of his professional career can be explained by illness and injuries. His result in Vuelta isn't also from nowhere, because he already had some good results in 2010 and 2011 it just got better. While Froome's performance for me is coming from nowhere.
If you want I can give the exact same argument for Froome.
Are you fucking kidding me. Mollema won the Tour l'Avenir.
Mollema in his 1st year was already 6th in Castilla y Leon and 7th in Tour of Germany (then Pro Tour).
Mollema in his 2nd year got pfeiffer
Mollema in his 3rd year was 12th in the Giro. Mollema this year was 9th in Paris Nice, 10th in Catalunya, 2nd in Castilla y Leon, 5th in Suisse (3rd if LeoTard didn't fuck him when he flatted)..
Froome has, and here it comes
14th in a ITT Tour 2008
3rd in giro dell appenino 2008
35th in the Giro 2009
14th in Castilla y Leon 2011 (same race where Mollema got 2nd)
a 12th place in Suisse mountain stage 2011
Then to ride this vuelta, Froome literally comes out of nowhere with those measly results.
You can't give same arguments, he never had results coming up to this GT to predict a top 2 performance.
Mollema had plenty results to suggest he could have stage-racing potential, in stark contrast to mr. Vroem Vroem |
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| mb2612 |
Posted on 04-09-2011 22:23
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I_Mayo wrote:
If you want I can give the exact same argument for Froome.
Give it![/quote]
But Froome was a very talented rider in junior years
2nd in the B world champs time trial in 2007 as well as a victory in the Tour of Japan and good results in the Giro del Capo and a 3rd at the all africa games at the age of 22. At 23 he came 4th in the Herald Sun Tour, coming 2nd on the queen stage beating Porte among others. He also came 3rd at the Giro dell'Appennino and 14th in the TdF time trial.
and his bad results in start of his professional career can be explained by illness and injuries.
He had to quit the Giro in 2010 because of a knee injury and he has been suffering from Bilharza for the past two years massively weakening him.
His result in Vuelta isn't also from nowhere, because he already had some good results in 2010 and 2011 it just got better.
In 2010 he came 2nd in the British TT champs, he then came 5th in the commonwealth championships, as well as getting a top ten in Haut Var.
This year he came 8th in the hilly stage in Romandie, came 9th and 11th in the two time trials in Suisse and came 12th on Suisse's first mountain stage.
While Mollema's performance for me is coming from nowhere.
Now your turn to give evidence
[url=www.pcmdaily.com/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=33182] Team Santander Media Thread[/url]
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| jolly_antunes |
Posted on 04-09-2011 22:24
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I can't understand why you guys think Cobo is doped when he had the most normal evolution. It's not like he was never a good GT rider or did nothing his whole career until now...
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