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The Difficult Topics
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| kubys |
Posted on 06-03-2014 13:40
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Domestique
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Ok, so Crimea is now officially part of Russia and Ukrainian army is occupying army according to Crimea vice-prime minister...
Edited by kubys on 06-03-2014 13:42
Die hard fan of Tom Boonen and Quickstep since 2004.
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| ruben |
Posted on 06-03-2014 13:42
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This is a shame.. stop it Poetin.
Though basically, it's 2003 all over again with the US invading Iraq with bs reasons |
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 06-03-2014 13:47
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kubys wrote:
Ok, so Crimea is now officially part of Russia and Ukrainian army is occupying army according to Crimea vice-prime minister...
I debate the term "officially". The Crimean MP's have asked for the region to join Russia, but as yet Russia hasn't agreed. And even so it is highly unlikely the rest of the Ukrainian government will allow it, and then the rest of the EU will bitch as will the UN before anything becomes offical
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 06-03-2014 13:49
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World Champion
Posts: 14236
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Well, EU can shit bricks, but they have 0 power, as it is not part of EU...
Anyway, i am laughing hard how much smarter Putin is to those dumb people leading western powers. 
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 22-11-2024 18:56
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| ruben |
Posted on 06-03-2014 13:51
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I 'm not laughing. Putin is dangerous. Very dangerous. |
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 06-03-2014 13:51
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Tour de France Champion
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Avin Wargunnson wrote:
Well, EU can shit bricks, but they have 0 power, as it is not part of EU...
Anyway, i am laughing hard how much smarter Putin is to those dumb people leading western powers.
It's why i used the phrase "bitch about it". Fuck will come of it unless the UN intervenes. Which it won't do until there is an actual open conflict
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| kubys |
Posted on 06-03-2014 14:14
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Domestique
Posts: 704
Joined: 07-05-2013
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TheManxMissile wrote:
kubys wrote:
Ok, so Crimea is now officially part of Russia and Ukrainian army is occupying army according to Crimea vice-prime minister...
I debate the term "officially". The Crimean MP's have asked for the region to join Russia, but as yet Russia hasn't agreed. And even so it is highly unlikely the rest of the Ukrainian government will allow it, and then the rest of the EU will bitch as will the UN before anything becomes offical
Connecting the Crimea to Russia has immediate effect, said Deputy Prime Minister Rustam Crimean Těmirgalijev. Ukrainian troops are occupying, according to him, is the only legitimate Russian army.
This is what I cited from. Obv Ukrainian government won't allow it, but the same thing happened to Geogia few years ago and they were helpless.
Edited by kubys on 06-03-2014 14:15
Die hard fan of Tom Boonen and Quickstep since 2004.
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| cunego59 |
Posted on 06-03-2014 14:41
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Avin Wargunnson wrote:
Well, EU can shit bricks, but they have 0 power, as it is not part of EU...
Anyway, i am laughing hard how much smarter Putin is to those dumb people leading western powers.
It's more about being ruthless than about being smart. Putin has absolute power, he's not accountable to anyone. You can call that smart, but it's simply a hell lot easier if you can just invade any country you want regardless of international laws or relations ...
I mean, what would you do as a "western leader"? Send armed forces to Crimea, too? Attack Russia? There's not much to be done except for diplomatic and economic sanctions, and that is what they're doing now.
It's like trying to reason with a kid about rules when that kid doesn't give a crap about it. You'll always have the disadvantage of being bound by these rules.
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| Crommy |
Posted on 06-03-2014 15:20
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kubys wrote:
Ok, so Crimea is now officially part of Russia and Ukrainian army is occupying army according to Crimea vice-prime minister...
Not quite yet. Crimean MPs have asked Russia whether it would be possible for Crimea to join Russia, and will then put it to a referendum to the people of Crimea
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 06-03-2014 15:24
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cunego59 wrote:
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
Well, EU can shit bricks, but they have 0 power, as it is not part of EU...
Anyway, i am laughing hard how much smarter Putin is to those dumb people leading western powers.
It's more about being ruthless than about being smart. Putin has absolute power, he's not accountable to anyone. You can call that smart, but it's simply a hell lot easier if you can just invade any country you want regardless of international laws or relations ...
I mean, what would you do as a "western leader"? Send armed forces to Crimea, too? Attack Russia? There's not much to be done except for diplomatic and economic sanctions, and that is what they're doing now.
It's like trying to reason with a kid about rules when that kid doesn't give a crap about it. You'll always have the disadvantage of being bound by these rules.
I agree, but there are kids on both sides and they are never folowing rules, just their needs. And Putin is smarter in that.
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| ShortsNL |
Posted on 06-03-2014 21:32
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Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 898
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Solution:
Isolate the disobedient kid. Don't allow him to play with anyone else. Make him feel unwanted and unwelcome. Talk shit behind his back. Tell him he won't be accepted until he comes around and plays by the rules.
Well, that's how it works in the metaphor at least. Unfortunately China seems to side with Russia.
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| Miguel98 |
Posted on 06-03-2014 21:36
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World Champion
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Get ready when North Korea sides with Russia as well... Then we'll have really trouble. More than there already are obvisouly. And the US could be there in the West alone, not bothering anyone instead of coming here to"help" Russia (that friendly nation of the US) in the Ukraine situation.
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| Alakagom |
Posted on 06-03-2014 21:36
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That metaphor will never work unless Russia gas reserves disappear into space
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 06-03-2014 21:38
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Crommy wrote:
kubys wrote:
Ok, so Crimea is now officially part of Russia and Ukrainian army is occupying army according to Crimea vice-prime minister...
Not quite yet. Crimean MPs have asked Russia whether it would be possible for Crimea to join Russia, and will then put it to a referendum to the people of Crimea
If I understood the tv news right, that is contrary to international laws, and probably to Ukrainian ones as well.
A land/region/part of country asking for independence from a nation normally requires a national referendum, not just one in the part that's at stake.
So, by those laws, a 100 % Crimean referendum wouldn't have any legitimacy.
To add insult to injury, a referendum in a country that's occupied (which by international laws is case in Crimea) is invalid, and a rushed referendum is not valid either since there's no time for a proper campaign.
Now, given how they run elections in Russia, I don't think those details will bother them.
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
I agree, but there are kids on both sides and they are never folowing rules, just their needs. And Putin is smarter in that.
I disagree. We have democracies and our leaders try to follow the rules, though they bend them whenever they feel they need to.
But the main difference is that we throw our leaders up whenever we get the opportunity, which forces them to at least try to look good in the public (national or global) opinion.
Putin has the strong hand because of his resources and because he can't lose an election (the 2012 ones were a blatant example of that). Add the permanent UN seat and he's free to play by his own rules. I don't know how far in the insult he'd need to go to get a very strong reaction (something as big as a war involving many countries against him).
Alakagom wrote:
That metaphor will never work unless Russia gas reserves disappear into space
That. Let's imagine Putin answers to sanctions by saying "Gas prices x2 for countries who sanctioned us", I guess the result would be pretty obvious.
Feel free to use a figure bigger than 2...
There's also the number of rich businessmen (oligarchs) that have interests in London or on the French Rivera, to name just two places. If you saw what that English newspaper managed to read on a British minister's papers at the end of a meeting yesterday, UK will most likely not ask for financial sanctions against Russian interests, as it'd harm their own ones.
ShortsNL wrote:
Solution:
Isolate the disobedient kid. Don't allow him to play with anyone else. Make him feel unwanted and unwelcome. Talk shit behind his back. Tell him he won't be accepted until he comes around and plays by the rules.
Well, that's how it works in the metaphor at least. Unfortunately China seems to side with Russia.
Not happening because of gas, financial interests, and their permanent seat at the UN security council.
China is not too happy with the current situation. They back up Russia for the sake of being a pain in the Western countries' bum, but they're not quite fond of a country intervening or occupying another one. Plus seeing a part of a country getting its independence through a made up referendum is not really a nice perspective for them (think Uigors or Tibetans).
Still, depending of the outcome, it might be a first (sort of), and that'd mean they could try to invade the Senkaku/Diaoyu islands, and other bits of land they're disputing to other countries.
Edited by Aquarius on 06-03-2014 21:54
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 06-03-2014 21:50
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Tour de France Champion
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I keep proposing this solution but people don't seem to like it:
Nuke Moscow.
I mean, we have all those nice atomic bombs just sitting around. We've even decommissioned some! What a waste! Why not just nuke those damn communists before they take Ukraine and have some laughs.
Radiation? Who cares about that. uranium is like ice cream. Mmmmm. I'm getting hungry just thinking about it.
Edited by baseballlover312 on 06-03-2014 21:51
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
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| Ste117 |
Posted on 06-03-2014 21:54
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3684
Joined: 21-02-2009
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and what would the US say was the reason for doing such an act? Unless Russia use military force there isn't one!
MG Team manager Team Ticos Air Costa Rica
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| 547984 |
Posted on 06-03-2014 22:00
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5008
Joined: 29-01-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Ste117 wrote:
and what would the US say was the reason for doing such an act? Unless Russia use military force there isn't one!
You don't think an excuse can be made for anything?
"Protecting the interests of citizens home and abroad and promoting the idea of democracy around the world."
But in all seriousness, Moscow, poor choice anyways
baseballlover312, 06-03-14 : "Nuke Moscow...Don't worry Russia, we've got plenty of love to go around your cities"
Sarah Palin, 08-03-14 (CPAC, on Russian aggression) : "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a nuke is a good guy with a nuke"
Big thanks to jdog for making this AMAZING userbar! |
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 06-03-2014 22:02
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 21854
Joined: 01-05-2012
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baseballlover312 wrote:
I keep proposing this solution but people don't seem to like it:
Nuke Moscow.
I mean, we have all those nice atomic bombs just sitting around. We've even decommissioned some! What a waste! Why not just nuke those damn communists before they take Ukraine and have some laughs.
Radiation? Who cares about that. uranium is like ice cream. Mmmmm. I'm getting hungry just thinking about it.
Well, you always wanted a PCM.Daily Award. I'm voting you funniest member of 2014 if you keep up posts like this  |
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| Ste117 |
Posted on 06-03-2014 22:03
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3684
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547984 wrote:
Ste117 wrote:
and what would the US say was the reason for doing such an act? Unless Russia use military force there isn't one!
You don't think an excuse can be made for anything?
"Protecting the interests of citizens home and abroad and promoting the idea of democracy around the world."
But in all seriousness, Moscow, poor choice anyways
No, I just don't think at the moment there is an excuse to use military power of that sort on Russia if they haven't done so in Ukraine. Because then how does that make the US different from Russia, in my eyes it doesn't.
And why would you want to risk a European War doing something like that.
If America fancy a war then go ahead, they must be blood thirsty again!
MG Team manager Team Ticos Air Costa Rica
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| Crommy |
Posted on 06-03-2014 22:13
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World Champion
Posts: 10018
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Aquarius wrote:
If I understood the tv news right, that is contrary to international laws, and probably to Ukrainian ones as well.
A land/region/part of country asking for independence from a nation normally requires a national referendum, not just one in the part that's at stake.
So, by those laws, a 100 % Crimean referendum wouldn't have any legitimacy.
Doesn't need a national referendum (and that would possibly violate the UN right to self-determination), but the referendum needs to be approved by the national government (see Scotland's referendum for independence from the UK in September of this year)
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![imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg](https://imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg)
