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Giro d'Italia Week 3
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| TimoCycling |
Posted on 30-05-2014 17:37
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@Jacob:
Sky have a lot of good supporting riders like Cataldo and Kyrienka... Movistar also have good mountain riders. |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 23-11-2024 01:54
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| fosforgasXIII |
Posted on 30-05-2014 17:42
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jacobjc88 wrote:
If you take away Froome, Porte from Sky, what have they got?
(And Wiggins seems to leave to Orica)
Stannard, Thomas, Swift, Boasson Hagen, Nieve, Henao... |
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| valverde321 |
Posted on 30-05-2014 17:45
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jacobjc88 wrote:
Kritzo wrote:
That is some serious W/kg! But it is still nowhere near Froome with 6,5 W/kg 
Come on, don't be as stupid as that.
Quintana did 5.99 W/kg for 55 minutes, while Froome's power output at 6.5 w/kg for 21:41 over the 7.85 km climbing portion, and 6.37 w/kg for 23:14 over the full 8.9 km
Froome's performance was in the first week of the Tour, while Quintanas performance here was in the very end of the race.
As far as I remember Quintana did more than 6 W/kg in one of the last stages at the Tour last year aswell. Stop throwing numbers around like without looking at the bigger picture.
To the discussion about Majka:
He had some problems with his stomach, but right now I don't see him winning a GT at the moment, but he has improved a lot the last few years. If he can pull off a few more watts / kg, it might be a different story. You never know. He is still quite young. Don't count him out yet.
About Saxo Tinkoff with riders like Contador / Kreuziger. I would still say they have a quite descent team in the GTs. Both Majka and Roche will be able to get in top-5, Rogers, CAS, Zaugg, Hernandez, all decent riders to support them in the mountains.
If you take away Quintana and Valverde from Moviestar, what have they got?
If you take away Froome, Porte from Sky, what have they got?
(And Wiggins seems to leave to Orica)
I don't really see why and how you can argue like that? You don't get anywhere.
First off, Roche isn't Top 5 GT rider, but also not exactly sure what you mean by that? Movistar have insane climbing depth. Sky do as well. Saxo's is also pretty good. Movistar have Anton, Gadret, Herrada, Intxausti, Moreno, Plaza, and a few others all great for support or secondary leaders.
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| Shonak |
Posted on 30-05-2014 17:56
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admirschleck wrote:
In my honest opinion, Aru is the only one that can be compared to Quintana, at the moment (not saying that they're on same level or anything). He is bad at TTs and wasn't a team leader in first ~10 days and that's probably what caused this big margin.
Aru was Astana's leader early on, because Scarponi crashed really badly. Scarponi even worked quite great for him in some earlier stages, like when Aru had a puncture at one point.
Without the complete Stelvio/Val Martello stage, Aru would be 8 seconds behind Quintana in total. But that's a lot of if and when down the road.
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
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| jacobjc88 |
Posted on 30-05-2014 17:58
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@Timo + Fosforgas
Team Sky:
Yes Sky has indeed some great riders, but I don't see them as top GT riders nor people who will dominate the classics.
Cataldo, Nieve, Kiriyenka, Kennaugh, the younger Henao are decent riders no doubt, but I could never see him be a top 5 in GT like Roche did in Vuelta 13 (if anyone has forgotten) or Majka can do.
*I'm leaving out the older Henao, since we don't know if he will compete or not.
Boasson Hagen, great rider, but he hasn't really been able to unleash his potential at Sky. Great rider, but just not top of the top, as lots of people expected.
Geraint Thomas great rider in classics and 10 days stage races, I just don't see him as GT rider or a rider who can win the biggest monuments. Ian Stannard maybe he can win, but we can't tell just yet. Overall solid team indeed, but I don't see "top" riders.
Moviestar have some great riders too, they are just not at the same level as Roche/Majke in my opinion. How good has Moviestar been in the mountains this Giro? When it really mattered Quintanas team wasn't there too help him, Saxo wasn't either....
I would say Saxo-Tinkoff and Moviestar (if we take away leaders) were around the same level. No doubt. Sky's having the edge when it comes to classics, but apart from Froome/Porte I don't see they have anyone who could do a top 5 at a GT.
*Leaving Wiggins out, since he's leaving after this season highest likely.
Present:
Tinkoff-Saxo - AG2R - Colombian riders
Past:
Francisco Mancebo - Illes balears - Carlos Sastre - Kelme - Robbie McEwen
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| Shonak |
Posted on 30-05-2014 18:14
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jacobjc88 wrote:
Moviestar have some great riders too, they are just not at the same level as Roche/Majke in my opinion. How good has Moviestar been in the mountains this Giro? When it really mattered Quintanas team wasn't there too help him, Saxo wasn't either....
Actually, Gorka Izagirre was exactly there when it mattered for Quintana in the one crucial point that made him win the Giro: Izagirre rode up to his captain in the descent and did some major work 'till Val Martello. It's not the usual climbing pace support you'd imagine or you thought of, but it's a prime example for when a domestique helps his captain win a Grand Tour in a mountain stage. Certainly, he was one of the reasons (alongside Sicard from Europcar) why Uran and the other contenders did not catch Quintana in the long flat part from Stelvio to Val Martello.
I'd also say that Rogers is the only domestique who has done throughout the Giro solid work in the mountains. Maybe add to that Poels and 1-2 guys from AG2R La Mondiale?
Nicholas Roche hasn't done anything I thought was noteworthy for Majka, and I can't think of anything where he helped Contador that much in the past. I don't think he likes to ride very much as a lieutnant or domestique and instead prefers to ride for his own gain and that's when he really digs deep. He's not that much worth as a helper, in my eyes, but that's just my take on some of his performances.
Generally speaking, this Giro has seen often times the leaders isolated, hasn't it?
Edited by Shonak on 30-05-2014 18:17
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
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| Dippofix |
Posted on 30-05-2014 18:21
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Shonak wrote:
jacobjc88 wrote:
Moviestar have some great riders too, they are just not at the same level as Roche/Majke in my opinion. How good has Moviestar been in the mountains this Giro? When it really mattered Quintanas team wasn't there too help him, Saxo wasn't either....
Actually, Gorka Izagirre was exactly there when it mattered for Quintana in the one crucial point that made him win the Giro: Izagirre rode up to his captain in the descent and did some major work 'till Val Martello. It's not the usual climbing pace support you'd imagine or you thought of, but it's a prime example for when a domestique helps his captain win a Grand Tour in a mountain stage. Certainly, he was one of the reasons (alongside Sicard from Europcar) why Uran and the other contenders did not catch Quintana in the long flat part from Stelvio to Val Martello.
I'd also say that Rogers is the only domestique who has done throughout the Giro solid work in the mountains. Maybe add to that Poels and 1-2 guys from AG2R La Mondiale?
Nicholas Roche hasn't done anything I thought was noteworthy for Majka, and I can't think of anything where he helped Contador that much in the past. I don't think he likes to ride very much as a lieutnant or domestique and instead prefers to ride for his own gain and that's when he really digs deep. He's not that much worth as a helper, in my eyes, but that's just my take on some of his performances.
Generally speaking, this Giro has seen often times the leaders isolated, hasn't it?
I think he still isn't feeling 100% after his crash(es), no other explanation. When he was in the breakaway, he was beaten by guys he shouldn't have any sort of problem with, under normal circumstances. What might play in to it as well though is saving energy for the Tour, where it really counts. He will most likely be Contadors best helper there.
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| Nin1388 |
Posted on 30-05-2014 19:27
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Dippofix wrote:
Spoiler Shonak wrote:
jacobjc88 wrote:
Moviestar have some great riders too, they are just not at the same level as Roche/Majke in my opinion. How good has Moviestar been in the mountains this Giro? When it really mattered Quintanas team wasn't there too help him, Saxo wasn't either....
Actually, Gorka Izagirre was exactly there when it mattered for Quintana in the one crucial point that made him win the Giro: Izagirre rode up to his captain in the descent and did some major work 'till Val Martello. It's not the usual climbing pace support you'd imagine or you thought of, but it's a prime example for when a domestique helps his captain win a Grand Tour in a mountain stage. Certainly, he was one of the reasons (alongside Sicard from Europcar) why Uran and the other contenders did not catch Quintana in the long flat part from Stelvio to Val Martello.
I'd also say that Rogers is the only domestique who has done throughout the Giro solid work in the mountains. Maybe add to that Poels and 1-2 guys from AG2R La Mondiale?
Nicholas Roche hasn't done anything I thought was noteworthy for Majka, and I can't think of anything where he helped Contador that much in the past. I don't think he likes to ride very much as a lieutnant or domestique and instead prefers to ride for his own gain and that's when he really digs deep. He's not that much worth as a helper, in my eyes, but that's just my take on some of his performances.
Generally speaking, this Giro has seen often times the leaders isolated, hasn't it?
I think he still isn't feeling 100% after his crash(es), no other explanation. When he was in the breakaway, he was beaten by guys he shouldn't have any sort of problem with, under normal circumstances. What might play in to it as well though is saving energy for the Tour, where it really counts. He will most likely be Contadors best helper there.
I think he still isn't feeling 100% since he joined cycling. this guy is a disgrace to his family and Irish in general. Just following your family tradition is not a way to do it. They got it all wrong. |
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| I_Mayo |
Posted on 30-05-2014 19:48
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Nin1388 wrote:
I think he still isn't feeling 100% since he joined cycling. this guy is a disgrace to his family and Irish in general. Just following your family tradition is not a way to do it. They got it all wrong.
Ok, ok keyboard warrior. Making comments like that about people who have achieved something and have done nothing wrong to be accused of such things only makes you a disgrace to yourself. |
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 30-05-2014 20:01
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Will crap ever stop happening to Garmin? Geez. this has been horrible. Every time they do something well they get screwed back in the ass.
Of course Ryder will win on Zoncolan and Farrar stage 21. But actually... no not at all. They will both fail.
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
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| diacos |
Posted on 30-05-2014 20:42
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Really hope Rolland catches a great day on Zoncolan and get the Top 3 in GC. He is one of the most spectacular climbers this giro. |
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| Strydz |
Posted on 30-05-2014 20:45
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Nin1388 wrote:
I think he still isn't feeling 100% since he joined cycling. this guy is a disgrace to his family and Irish in general. Just following your family tradition is not a way to do it. They got it all wrong.
Wow that is one hell of a statement, care to explain how Roche has failed you Nin?
It seems to me the only way Roche has failed as a cyclist has been to have the bad luck to be born with the surname Roche, he has a good solid Palmares to his name and has certainly done well with the what he has had. He was never going to be that top tier GC rider that he was made out to be and must have had a massive amount of pressure on him to achieve big results just based on who he is related to. If he had any other name he would be described as a good solid pro and one of the better Irish cyclists out there.
Wish I had the talent to be as disgraceful as Roche
Hells 500 Crew and 6 x Everester
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https://www.everesting.cc/hall-of-fame/ |
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| valverde321 |
Posted on 30-05-2014 20:54
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baseballlover312 wrote:
Will crap ever stop happening to Garmin? Geez. this has been horrible. Every time they do something well they get screwed back in the ass.
Of course Ryder will win on Zoncolan and Farrar stage 21. But actually... no not at all. They will both fail.
Its pretty great that Ryder could even get a Top 10 (unless he loses 12 minutes tomorrow) tbh. If not for the bike problems today he may have narrowly held on to 7th at best and be in distance for that tomorrow, but he was obviously not moving up the GC table much anyway.
Farrar would need to be really lucky to get a win as well. He's not had as much bad luck at all.
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| CountArach |
Posted on 30-05-2014 22:33
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I'm waiting for Alakagom to say Wellens is a climber now  He is perfectly suited to an MTT. He has very little acceleration but he knows his limits and can ride within them, a bit like Van den Broeck.
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 30-05-2014 22:35
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CountArach wrote:
I'm waiting for Alakagom to say Wellens is a climber now He is perfectly suited to an MTT. He has very little acceleration but he knows his limits and can ride within them, a bit like Van den Broeck.
I wouldn't say little acceleration. He got 2nd place two times due to impressive acceleration, I'd say  |
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| anderspcm |
Posted on 30-05-2014 22:37
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I need help for a bet on tomorrows stage (H2H)
Pozzovivo or Rolland?
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| admirschleck |
Posted on 30-05-2014 22:37
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Rolland.
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| CountArach |
Posted on 30-05-2014 22:38
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Ian Butler wrote:
CountArach wrote:
I'm waiting for Alakagom to say Wellens is a climber now He is perfectly suited to an MTT. He has very little acceleration but he knows his limits and can ride within them, a bit like Van den Broeck.
I wouldn't say little acceleration. He got 2nd place two times due to impressive acceleration, I'd say
I mean in attacks. Sprints out of breaks are obviously very different things and I'd mostly put that down to his ability to pace himself. Plenty left on the tank at the end.
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| CountArach |
Posted on 30-05-2014 22:39
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anderspcm wrote:
I need help for a bet on tomorrows stage (H2H)
Pozzovivo or Rolland?
Rolland is clearly the form rider so go for him.
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 30-05-2014 22:43
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I request Hesjedal vs. Evans also. Or maybe Hesjedal vs. Kelderman would be a better head to head.
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
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