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Ideas/Suggestions for 2014
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| Luis Leon Sanchez |
Posted on 23-01-2014 20:25
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Next season, we will use PCM13 right?
If so I will report.
And at times I could do a report or two a day.
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| cio93 |
Posted on 23-01-2014 20:30
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World Champion
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Rin wrote:
Even in a race you would expect absolutely nothing you can achieve something.
Like (I have already forgotten it oops) where a PCT team won a PT event (Deutschland Tour?) just because of this.
So overall stronger competition still could be great.
Oz won the FBD Eire Tour 2012, and with Ford who is far from their best rider as well.
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| Dippofix |
Posted on 23-01-2014 20:43
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@Rin I agree that races need to be cut to make the season faster, i just don't fully understand why packages are needed to do so. Likewise, i wasn't talking about promoting by avoiding competition, i was talking about making the playing field more level, instead of having the same few riders dominating every race in the package that has the most races of whatever type.
And i'd report too, just i don't have '13, and i'm not planning on getting it either. I'd be up for it for '14 though, reporting for EPIC is good fun already. 
I'll explain what i mean better when i get on a computer tomorrow, i'm too lazy to type it all out on my phone, one long-ish post from it is annoying enough. 
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| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 23-01-2014 20:44
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In terms of 'just get more reporters', Rin's post sums that up nicely.
@tsmoha Certainly a list of races which were no good this year would be helpful. The reporters forum is best placed for that though as it is only really reporters who know which ones were a pain to report!
@Roman Interesting idea about giving Tour of America GT levels of xp. Also interesting thought that you could offer a promotion spot for the best 'C1 Team' outside of the overall best teams. In theory, you are right in that having all the calendar fixed with a well balanced calendar would work well - it does in ProTour after all. But ultimately, it is part of the game's character that PCT/CT allows for plenty of choice. Regional Rankings arent too much extra work to be honest. They are updated instantly alongside the main rankings when results are inputted, so the only extra bit is when doing Rankings Updates.
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But like I said. Posts trying to think up absolutely anything that might not work, or making pre-judgements, or inferring that I don't know what I'm doing, or won't carefully plan a new addition before actually adding it, are not helpful.
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Nothing wrong with posting here when you're not part of the game, and trying to contribute. But theres no need to post 4 times in half an hour to say you have already decided, with not much to go on, that you don't like the packages suggestion 
@Dippo Calendar suggestion has nothing to do with determining what squad a team will send to a race. Just because a package has 2 Mountain stage races, doesnt mean a team will send their best climber to both races.
And it doesn't matter how the race calendar is decided, the biggest races already have some very stacked fields. Many of this year's C1 mountain races also had very high quality fields too, and that was true also for other disciplines.
Edited by SportingNonsense on 23-01-2014 20:49
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| Cycleman123 |
Posted on 23-01-2014 20:57
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Yeah I think I could report next season too.
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| Roman |
Posted on 23-01-2014 21:18
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Thank you for your response, SN.
The only thing to react - I think with what I suggested, there would still be plenty of things to decide, but every version of 'packages' brings lower level of 'making choices'. The only question is - is it a good idea to decide to cut these choices for easier running of the game, full line-ups and less reports? Or we can only do small things, leave the current system here with cutting a few races and that will be all... Sorry guys, but I think we need to do something like these packages, the only question, how it should work...
And I am sorry if I suggested something, which could only might work, or I am suggesting too much. In my opinion, these things could be messed in antoher way now as well. So please, feel free to use some of my ideas, SN. I only try to help with my complete think tank. 
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| Ad Bot |
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 23-01-2014 21:21
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@SN
I assume, cause you have all the startlists, that you could tell us how many races had less than 18 teams?
Would be interesting to see if there was a general type or trend to those under-subscribed races. It would provide another start point to the discussions about a revised calendar.
(Doesn't have to be 18, but that threshold between a normal race and an under-subscribed race)
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| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 23-01-2014 21:22
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Thanks for posting your ideas Roman! It's what the thread is for, and you've definitely embraced that.
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| dave92 |
Posted on 23-01-2014 22:08
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After thinking through it I really like Roman's ideas. To qualify my thoughts, I was only in the CT one year, which was actually the original year when it was raced entirely on a fixed calendar.
This may explain why I don't see a problem with a fully fixed calendar. The diverse and highly specialized teams have become a major component of the PCT so i do realize that a fully fixed calendar is not what many want to see.
I think Roman's idea for making the packages geographically focused, while retaining some diversity in the type of race. It would still allow for a great deal of variety and regional focus which I do really enjoy in the game. This would also mean that a large portion of the calendar is run with maximized fields which is huge for game speed.
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| ggDonovan |
Posted on 24-01-2014 00:27
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After going trough all the posts (it took me a while...) I want to say that I like the packages idea, but at the end I think everything could be solved just reducing the number of races available.
Another idea to implement next season could be a race and startlist selection per month or trimester. This could really help to solve one of the flaws of the game that is the lack of decisions of the managers during the season.
Also, this opens a new tactical point in the game since the manager could aim to more ambitious races at the end of the season if they are battling to enter promotion or adjusts the startlist to the gameplay.
I also wanted to add that even though I’m an awful writer, I have PCM13 and I could do some reports if needed.
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| DubbelDekker |
Posted on 24-01-2014 00:46
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Agree that we need a more streamlined game. I currently don't have time to read the whole discussion; I've only quickly scanned it. So here's my short and slightly uninformed reaction:
Things I'm in favour of
1) A fixed calendar on all levels
- If the calendar is well balanced, running a specialized team will still be viable. On lower levels it might even remain to be the most effective approach.
- In the current system, race selection (i.e. selecting which races to go to; not to be confused with rider selection) is extremely important because it offers great rewards to those who best manage to avoid the others. I think there's a considerable amount of luck involved in this game mechanic and it should thus be made less important. If you want to see an example of how this mechanic can completely unbalance a division, look at the CT rankings.
- A fixed calendar doesn't take the importance of rider selection out of the game. Clashes which force tactical choices are also still possible.
- A fixed calendar should stimulate a sense of community in a division. It doesn't really feel like I'm part of the CT circus, because there is none. CT teams are all over the place and the only thing binding us are the rankings. I've been mostly racing the same +- 10 teams all season.
2) 22 team PT, 24 team PCT, 24 team CT, 8 rider tea,s
- Just makes sense.
I'll try to read the thread in detail soon.
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| Luis Leon Sanchez |
Posted on 24-01-2014 00:54
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Where can you see the CT rankings?
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| roturn |
Posted on 24-01-2014 06:17
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Something different.
Promotion from CT to PCT .
We could slightly change it to the way PCM is working. Something like the best 25 (or how many PCT teams there will be) in a shared Ct/Pct Ranking will be PCT next season.
I don't know if it will change a lot as I don't have the actual rankings right now. But this way it might vary a little bit every year.
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 24-01-2014 06:26
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World Champion
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Just one note. I think nobody is trying to sabotage the ideas here SN. You said why to look again and again on negatives and what ifs? In everything humans do, there should be an evaluation before it is done. And the possible negatives are the most important thing that should be thought of (even more when it influences 50-60people who can only say what they think here and cant vhange it later).
Obviously you are not stupid and will think it in details, but i dont see nothing wrong in pointing on possible nagatives, that you can possibly miss or voice something that would degrade the game in someones eyes.
Like when some nagatives about possible playing on PCM12 were ignored and we saw what happened.
For me personally, all races fixed would be terrible. But i like the packages idea of Roman, he is certainly a guy with bright idea. Combination of "old" system with partially fixed calendar sounds very good when balanced.
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| Cycleman123 |
Posted on 24-01-2014 06:27
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Grand Tour Specialist
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Imo the gap between PCT and CT is to big in the ManGame to implement that. If I'm wrong then I'm all in favour.
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| cio93 |
Posted on 24-01-2014 06:36
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World Champion
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roturn wrote:
Something different.
Promotion from CT to PCT .
We could slightly change it to the way PCM is working. Something like the best 25 (or how many PCT teams there will be) in a shared Ct/Pct Ranking will be PCT next season.
I don't know if it will change a lot as I don't have the actual rankings right now. But this way it might vary a little bit every year.
If we combine the rankings based on the projected final points, Gazelle sits 11th, Iberia 14th and third placed Die Berg already down in 31st.
I don't think the current system allows for such a promotion rule.
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| roturn |
Posted on 24-01-2014 07:07
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Fair enough.
Just had this in mind on my mobile and remembered some ct teams being quite high. Obviously too less. |
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| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 24-01-2014 08:03
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Team Manager
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@Avin What I mean are the posts like "If this is implemented badly then..." "If packages look like X, then it will be bad" etc Comment on the idea, sure - but those sort of specifics are best saved until there is an actual system to evaluate - i.e. if I put together a draft format for packages, and then ask for feedback on that.
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 24-01-2014 08:12
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Okay, i agree. That would be nice to have a chance for a feedback. Thanks for the answer
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| Smowz |
Posted on 24-01-2014 14:16
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Ignoring the packages conversation and calendar based things, a couple of other new ideas that come to mind.
Transfer season: I think SN said it already but a limit on free agent bids per day would be a good idea I think to make things more tactical and easier for managers to keep up to date with.
Goals system: I would say keep as is for team goals. I wonder if we could add an extra dimension and character to the riders.
Once transfer season is over we have to allocate rider goals in addition to the pre-established team goals. Then these goals could be used as an extra variable in rider wage negotiations for the following season.
Possibly if the rider did not achieve that goal then perhaps this carries forward to the next season with their new team?
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