baseballlover312 wrote:
Okay, Adam and Eve is just a metaphor for tempation and sin.
Depends on the person. A heck of a lot of people take it as literal.
fcancellara wrote:
He created all of this, He has the right to take it back anytime He wants.
OK, let's apply that logic.
I have a son. I created him. I'm bored with him, so I kill him.
I gave him life so I have the right to take it back anytime I want.
Problem?
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
baseballlover312 wrote:
Okay, Adam and Eve is just a metaphor for tempation and sin.
I know. But the story has a deeper meaning and enlightens how religions work.
You get punished when you question what religions tell you. Doubting is already a sin. They had to remain ignorants to be happy and alive.
I hate that logic, and I'd eat the apple any day.
Why? Why would you eat that apple when there were so many others? Why? What reason? What good could it do you at all? You have to be trolling.
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy
issoisso wrote:
That's always been the one question I have no idea if I can answer....but here's the scarier though that occurred to me about 2 years ago.
98% of the atoms in our body are renewed over the span of a year.....is it still you?
I'm not 100% on this, but I believe that either brain cells don't renew (are just added to), or we don't know yet?
Romans 1:20 'For His invisible attributes, namely His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they [all mankind] are without excuse.'
fcancellara wrote:
What genocide are you talking about?
Any genocide as long as it's God's will.
If it is God's will, He will have a reason for it.
He created all of this, He has the right to take it back anytime He wants.
That makes him a tyrant. Which always reminds of this quote. It's worth a read, even if you disagree with it:
"If there is a God who will damn his children forever, I would rather go to hell than to go to heaven and keep the society of such an infamous tyrant. I make my choice now. I despise that doctrine. It has covered the cheeks of this world with tears. It has polluted the hearts of children, and poisoned the imaginations of men. It has been a constant pain, a perpetual terror to every good man and woman and child. It has filled the good with horror and with fear; but it has had no effect upon the infamous and base. It has wrung the hearts of the tender, it has furrowed the cheeks of the good. This doctrine never should be preached again.
What right have you, sir, Mr. clergyman, you, minister of the gospel to stand at the portals of the tomb, at the vestibule of eternity, and fill the future with horror and with fear? I do not believe this doctrine, neither do you. If you did, you could not sleep one moment. Any man who believes it, and has within his breast a decent, throbbing heart, will go insane. A man who believes that doctrine and does not go insane has the heart of a snake and the conscience of a hyena."
- Robert G. Ingersoll
baseballlover312 wrote:
One big reason I believe in God is a soul. I just don't see how a bunch of organs, even one as amazing as the brain can make me be me. Me control myself. I can't exactly explain it, but I know it's more than guts causing that.
As far as I know, nothing proves a soul or something alike survives a body, or existed prior to it.
When we're thinking, behaving, moving, etc. it's "just" electrical signals going to/inside/from the brain. Emotions are chemical reactions (that's why medicines for psychological diseases are chemicals that aim to have a specific effect on the brain - warning, giant leap in the explanation).
It's all very fascinating, and not too well explained, plus I'm far from having the maximal knowledge on the subject, but I'm not certain there's anything mystical or magical in there.
I can't see a thing that'd tend to prove a deity or a celestial being of some sort would have put something like a soul into our physical bodies.
I'm not so dismissive yet, and I'm not entirely sure scientific knowledge has sufficient knowledge to make a judgement yet. The best thought experiment is if teleportation existed. Would it be you, or is it an exact copy of you? What is conscience?
That's always been the one question I have no idea if I can answer....but here's the scarier though that occurred to me about 2 years ago.
98% of the atoms in our body are renewed over the span of a year.....is it still you?
I don't know if that was trying to go against my point but it seems like pretty good evidence for my point.
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy
Romans 1:20 'For His invisible attributes, namely His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they [all mankind] are without excuse.'
In answer to your question, yes.
So you just disproved your own claim that god is fair.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
I must say, that this is a pretty useless discussion. Believers wont convince non-believers and non-believers won't convince believers.
I believe in God, although I didnt for about 10 years ago (33 years old now). I met my wife, who believes i God, and started to go to church with her. I wet with her, but doubted the existence of God, because I wanted to interpret everything that was written in the bible.,possibly due to my scientific background (I'm a doctor / physician).
But over the years, I quitted the interpreting of everything, as I realized that a lot of events in my life weren't coincedence but it was the plan of God.
For instance: my wife and I used to live 200 kilometres away from each other, but just met. And when she was pregnant, she got very sick (HELLP-syndrome), life-threatening, and while being 33 weeks pregnant, the gynaecologists were discussing of delivering the baby, But she appeared to have a few centimetres of.. digestion? (that the womb/cervix has opened already a bit), so the child-bearin already had started.
These are just 2 examples, but convinced me of the existence of God, knowing that I'll never ever being able to proof that (no one will). But I also believe a lot o things written in the bible aren't true, and I believe God created the earth with the big bang.
So don't try to convince me that God doens't exist, I won't try to convince you he does. That is a discussion know one will ever win, and doesn't need to be won.
issoisso wrote:
That's always been the one question I have no idea if I can answer....but here's the scarier though that occurred to me about 2 years ago.
98% of the atoms in our body are renewed over the span of a year.....is it still you?
I don't know if that was trying to go against my point but it seems like pretty good evidence for my point.
It's a good thought experiment, which has no wrong or right answer (yet). So you can make your own conclusions, just don't say you can make those with absolute certainty
baseballlover312 wrote:
One big reason I believe in God is a soul. I just don't see how a bunch of organs, even one as amazing as the brain can make me be me. Me control myself. I can't exactly explain it, but I know it's more than guts causing that.
As far as I know, nothing proves a soul or something alike survives a body, or existed prior to it.
When we're thinking, behaving, moving, etc. it's "just" electrical signals going to/inside/from the brain. Emotions are chemical reactions (that's why medicines for psychological diseases are chemicals that aim to have a specific effect on the brain - warning, giant leap in the explanation).
It's all very fascinating, and not too well explained, plus I'm far from having the maximal knowledge on the subject, but I'm not certain there's anything mystical or magical in there.
I can't see a thing that'd tend to prove a deity or a celestial being of some sort would have put something like a soul into our physical bodies.
I'm not so dismissive yet, and I'm not entirely sure scientific knowledge has sufficient knowledge to make a judgement yet. The best thought experiment is if teleportation existed. Would it be you, or is it an exact copy of you? What is conscience?
That's always been the one question I have no idea if I can answer....but here's the scarier though that occurred to me about 2 years ago.
98% of the atoms in our body are renewed over the span of a year.....is it still you?
I don't know if that was trying to go against my point but it seems like pretty good evidence for my point.
Nope, just elaborating on Crommy's question
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
Romans 1:20 'For His invisible attributes, namely His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they [all mankind] are without excuse.'
In answer to your question, yes.
So you just disproved your own claim that god is fair.[/quote]
See it like this: when you start to believe in God and his existence, even in the last second before you die, God will welcome you, because remission of your sins (yes, non-believing is a sin in His eyes) is one of the pilars of christianity. And hell is a place were God just isn't. To Christians, this means a terrible place, to non-christians a "normal" place. That's what my vicar explained me (I've got 2 sisters that don't believe in God, so was curious).
But a lot of christians think different about this, just the way how you explain a book that is 2000 years old, translated many, many times.
baseballlover312 wrote:
Okay, Adam and Eve is just a metaphor for tempation and sin.
Depends on the person. A heck of a lot of people take it as literal.
fcancellara wrote:
He created all of this, He has the right to take it back anytime He wants.
OK, let's apply that logic.
I have a son. I created him. I'm bored with him, so I kill him.
I gave him life so I have the right to take it back anytime I want.
Problem?
Exodus 20:13 - "You shall not murder."
So, do as I say not as I do?
In this case, yes, for He is gracious. He uses His power in a good way.
That's a wonderful phrase, but it doesn't mean anything.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
Romans 1:20 'For His invisible attributes, namely His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they [all mankind] are without excuse.'
In answer to your question, yes.
Okay, thanks. But as far as I see it, it's enough form them to see the world around them and think to themselves "wow, this is so beautiful and unique, this can only be created by some kind of god", right?
Also, would you mind commenting on my previous remark:
Neillster wrote:
Crommy wrote:
Take this in any way you like, but, there is something seriously wrong with you. You worship a tyrant.
Well, of course I'd disagree. I worship a God who is gracious enough to forgive me the sins which I have committed against him. And His Son has paid the price I could never pay, and for that I will never be able to be grateful enough.
To me, the logic seems wrong. It's circular reasoning. Imagine I'm saying it's a sin to have a nose - so everyone is bound to be a sinner. But in the same sentence, I'm saying that, in my infinite graciousness, I forgive you all for having a nose, and now you'll have to be thankful and obedient for all times.
It may not be the perfect image, but do you see what I'm going for?
€: Maybe a better one: You're PE teacher says, everyone who runs 100m slower than one second gets an F and will fail the course. And then, after you've all failed, he says, well, at least you've tried, so I'll give you a D and you pass. Would you be thankful for the D or angry that he didn't give you a fair chance to get an A or a B in the first place? (it's not my intention to offend your god to a PE teacher, btw )
Crommy wrote:
"If there is a God who will damn his children forever, I would rather go to hell than to go to heaven and keep the society of such an infamous tyrant. I make my choice now. I despise that doctrine. It has covered the cheeks of this world with tears. It has polluted the hearts of children, and poisoned the imaginations of men. It has been a constant pain, a perpetual terror to every good man and woman and child. It has filled the good with horror and with fear; but it has had no effect upon the infamous and base. It has wrung the hearts of the tender, it has furrowed the cheeks of the good. This doctrine never should be preached again.
What right have you, sir, Mr. clergyman, you, minister of the gospel to stand at the portals of the tomb, at the vestibule of eternity, and fill the future with horror and with fear? I do not believe this doctrine, neither do you. If you did, you could not sleep one moment. Any man who believes it, and has within his breast a decent, throbbing heart, will go insane. A man who believes that doctrine and does not go insane has the heart of a snake and the conscience of a hyena."
- Robert G. Ingersoll
Very interesting. The only problem is that those 'good' people which Mr Ingersoll is speaking of aren't. 'No one is righteous, no, not one.' Romans 3:10. God doesn't condemn the righteous, but those who die clinging to their sins.
He is right, that Christians should feel a greater burden for the lost, indeed, I should, and I pray that God will give me a heart more willing to boldly reach out with the gospel.
