matt17br wrote:
A sprinters race seems too generic to me. Surely neither Cavendish nor Kittel won't ever win it.

TheManxMissile wrote:
Now if only we had a 2015DailyDB to use the stats in

Tafiolmo wrote:
Final cobble stats decided
Since most of us will soon be discussing the Ardennes classics, this is probably the final time we'll discuss the cobbles this season. These are the cobble stats that I've finally decided to go with, based on the averages that I did, reading the opinions of other members, how good they were last year as well, recognizing that the game reads the cobble stat much more than the flat stat for the cobble races and of course my own gut feeling to get the most realistic performances based on the three years I've been playing the game.

Cobble
82- Cancellara

Kept Cancellara at 82 as I think he would've won one of the cobble classics again this season or nearly would've.

81- Vanmarcke
81- Van Avermaet
81- Stybar
81- Degenkolb

Went with 81 for Degenkolb in the end, as he has finished 1st and 2nd in the hardest cobble classic. I had Vanmarcke at 82 last season but this year he looked no better than the rest when it really mattered, in fact at times he looked like an 80 most of the time so I compromised and put him at 81.

80- Boonen
80- Terpstra
80- Kristoff
80- Thomas

Put Thomas at 80 (and he has other high stats ) as I know the game AI won't accommodate his flat stat in the cobble classics properly. Kristoff has 1 point higher than Degenkolb in sprint, hill and stamina for that reason it also helped me to decide that Degenkolb should gain a point over him in cobble.

79- Vandenbergh
79- Boom
79- Sagan

Sagan looked jaded this season and seemed to run out of steam on a few races therefore I just decided to keep him on 79 but reduce his stamina stat to 77 which is a less than his rivals who sit at 80-78.

78- Langeveld
78- Stannard
78- Wiggins

Stannard has a good cobble stat but I'm sure his Achilles heel is stamina compared to his rivals which is why I've put that at 76. Wiggins has targeted the PR all season and he looked good when he attacked at the PR, problem is he should've gone with Vandenbergh earlier but I still think he's worth 78 for realism.

Langeveld like Boonen and Cancellara didn't race of course and I saw no reason to punish any of them too much with stat decreases. Also as I want realism when I play these races I won't be using these three either.

Avin Wargunnson wrote:
Sagan is once again underrated. You have him listed as 10-12th best cobbler and i would think that he is better than that, judged by his results at De Ronde and his riding at Roubaix before his race was ruined by broken shifter and waiting for a bike change (after which he single handed got back to the second big group).

Combined with that lowered stamina (hell why? He is still the long races specialist and was again 4th at MSR and 4th at Ronde) he will have a hard time to reproduce some of his results in game. But he is always underrated in many databases, so it is a tradition now.

What i would do is lowering his sprint and acceleration, as he lost quite a some in last couple of years. He is 79-80 cobbles and 80-82 stamina in my eyes.

Avin Wargunnson wrote:
I quite like your final stats, but Sagan is once again underrated. You have him listed as 10-12th best cobbler and i would think that he is better than that, judged by his results at De Ronde and his riding at Roubaix before his race was ruined by broken shifter and waiting for a bike change (after which he single handed got back to the second big group).

Combined with that lowered stamina (hell why? He is still the long races specialist and was again 4th at MSR and 4th at Ronde) he will have a hard time to reproduce some of his results in game. But he is always underrated in many databases, so it is a tradition now.

What i would do is lowering his sprint and acceleration, as he lost quite a some in last couple of years. He is 79-80 cobbles and 80-82 stamina in my eyes.

asoutar wrote:
I like Tafiolmo's stats I probably agree with them the most out all that I've seen. I have to agree with Avin though. There is absolutely no way you can say there is a two point gap between Stybar, Vanmarcke and GVA. Sagan is at least as good as them on the cobbles. He has won G-W and E3 and has had good results to go with them - GVA has never won a cobbled classic and Stybar's best was 5th before this year. To add to this fact Sagan has other targets such as Tour de France Green Jersey and other classics throughout the season. I understand Sagan has other stats such as hill and sprint but he does get underrated.

Paul23 wrote:


only because Sagan won some classics before this year, doesn't justify a very high stat.

Also Stybar had to work for his Team the last years, while Sagan was always the leader of his team.

GVA may have never won a cobbled classic, but he is always 2nd or 3rd. I could easily argue that we should give Dumoulin(Tom) a low TT stat, since he has never won the World Championship.

Tafiolmo wrote:
Ever since I've been a member of this forum, there has been more debate about Sagan's stats than any other rider in the peloton and it's normally over his sprint stat but now it's over his cobble and stamina stat.

According to Avin, Sagan should have a cobble stat to match the other top riders which means 80/81 and he also thinks that his stamina should be one of the best between 80-82. Now if we did this we would have a Sagan that was on an equal footing as both Kristoff and Degenkolb and he would have an equal chance to beat those riders as they would him. This year though has seen him much weaker than these riders in the most important part of the race which is the final kms.

Therefore by lowering his stamina to 78/77 it reflects this weakness that he can't quite last the distance with them and there was no way last season that Sagan would've been dropped by Thomas/Stybar and GVA in these races in the final kms.
To be realistic his cobble should be 79 with 78/77 stamina or 80 cobble with 77 stamina and as Paul said he still has the best hill stat as well and he's the third best sprinter of all the riders that we're discussing. Also if his daily form on each race is good then he's still going to be a contender for victory if not quite an overall favourite.

fidjim2013 wrote:


You're funny Paul you seems to forget something right there because working for his team is not a good excuse to defend stybar stat. Don't forget that terpstra too had to work for his team before and since last year he doesn't because he won P-R because he capitalized on his chance. Working for your teammates doesn't necessarily means that you can't get good results, look at vandenbergh he's no leader but he's always well placed in cobble classics. Another examples is Luke Rowe from team sky he capitalized on his chance and finished 8th in Roubaix.

Paul23 wrote:
only because Sagan won some classics before this year, doesn't justify a very high stat.

Paul23 wrote:
Also Stybar had to work for his Team the last years, while Sagan was always the leader of his team.

Paul23 wrote:
GVA may have never won a cobbled classic, but he is always 2nd or 3rd.

Paul23 wrote:


Vandenbergh and Rowe, huh? What about Stybars 6th place at Paris Roubaix in 2013? Where's Rowes 6th place? Or Vandenberghs? If you have watched the last races(i assume, that you haven't) you clearly saw, how strong Stybar was on the cobbles. Also this year, Wtixx tactics were quite shit. When Terpstra attacks at RvV. What do you do in the pursuer group? Right. Do Nothing. Or at Omloop, where he simply didn't care about his position at the finish. He HAD to play the anchor role very often this season. But thats not so important. Terpstra. I don't think he deserved 81 COB last season. He got dropped, came back and attacked on the flat and won. Thats not because he is the best, but because the situation helped him. I would suggest you watch the races and then argue in this thread. I know that my stat suggestions often are not perfect. But thats mainly because I watch the Etixx riders during the race. So I know what my Etixx riders where doing at those classics.

fidjim2013 wrote:
but the problem is that a lot of riders are surpassing him like kristoff, degenkolb, GVA, Thomas, and Stybar.

I mean let's not forget that sagan once finished 2nd in Flanders behind the beast cancellara.There's too much of good all round riders now that are capable of doing the same thing that sagan is doing. In 2010 sagan was probably the only guy that was all rounder in the peloton.

Tafiolmo wrote:


Well you've defeated your own argument above about putting Sagan higher than I've suggested, by stating that all the above riders are better than him at the moment.



I know that RvV very well and it's one of my favs and yes Sagan was a stronger rider back then and would be easily 80 cobble with a very high stamina as well, but gradually and especially since joining Tinkoff he hasn't looked like the rider he once was. He's still young of course and can get back to his previous level BUT I still expect him with his current stats to be a favourite for the green jersey again in the Tour.

@Paul The problem with Etixx is very simple, they have too many leaders and too many cards to play which leaves them with some complex tactics. The nearest team to them in strength and style at the cobble classics were Sky who were as strong as they were, but Sky always had one true leader in Thomas (even though Wiggins was equal for PR)

Whereas teams like Katusha and Giant have one simple main goal and that is to put Kristoff and Degenkolb into a winning position, which makes for a much easier gameplan.