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PCMdaily DB Stat Discussion
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 13-04-2015 19:08
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Sprinter
Posts: 1961
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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I saw somewhere but can't find it on here now that somebody mentioned that Kristoff and Degenkolb should be separated by the fact that one is better in Flanders (Kristoff) and the other at Roubaix (Degenkolb)
These are the stats I have at the moment for the two
Kristoff Cobble 80 Flat 79 Hill 74 Sprint 81 Acc 78 Stamina 81
Degenkolb Cobble 80 Flat 79 Hill 73 Sprint 80 Acc 80 Stamina 80
Which means that Degenkolb could benefit from being 81 on cobbles, as their others stats like correct. |
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| Naxela |
Posted on 13-04-2015 19:09
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Stagiare
Posts: 169
Joined: 25-02-2015
PCM$: 200.00
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krisa wrote:
Morganho wrote:
Ollfardh wrote:Degenkolb, still not convinced he should be at 81. He's just not amongst the top 5 cobblers. He's a sprinter with a lot of power, who takes cobbles decently enough not to be dropped. He has the endurance for a long race (remember San Remo) and can be really strong on the flat. On the cobbles he can follow, but that's about it. But if you got his sprint, following is all you need to do.
Jesus Christ dude do you even watch the races? Degenkolb and Stybar followed every acceleration by Vanmarcke and Cancellara last year (they were the only ones to do so) and Degenkolb was pretty much always in the front in cobbled sections this year. Sagan and Kristoff might be better suited to RvV because it's a hillier race but Degenkolb is undeniably better than both in the cobbles. Well cobbles are different in Belgium, the cobbles in the north of france are bad, In belgium the quality is pretty good. Anyway Why are you refering to last year, the stats have to be from this year not from some years ago. Otherwhise we can give wiggo 81 on mountain and so on ....
Recent results (recent for me is based two years back) should still be taken into account when deciding stats. Vanmarcke made a bad decicion in 'RRV' but that does not justify him being downgraded to '77' or whatever he deserves based on his performance this year. The same goes for Vandenbergh.
EDIT: Based on this year Degenkolb, Van Avermaet and Boom would be the best cobble riders in the world.
Edited by Naxela on 13-04-2015 19:13
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| Ian Butler |
Posted on 13-04-2015 19:10
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 21854
Joined: 01-05-2012
PCM$: 400.00
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Ollfardh wrote:
Morganho wrote:
Ollfardh wrote:Degenkolb, still not convinced he should be at 81. He's just not amongst the top 5 cobblers. He's a sprinter with a lot of power, who takes cobbles decently enough not to be dropped. He has the endurance for a long race (remember San Remo) and can be really strong on the flat. On the cobbles he can follow, but that's about it. But if you got his sprint, following is all you need to do.
Jesus Christ dude do you even watch the races? Degenkolb and Stybar followed every acceleration by Vanmarcke and Cancellara last year (they were the only ones to do so) and Degenkolb was pretty much always in the front in cobbled sections this year. Sagan and Kristoff might be better suited to RvV because it's a hillier race but Degenkolb is undeniably better than both in the cobbles.
No I don't watch races, I just look at the picture in the newspaper and make up a story in my head about what might have happened.
You know, that actually sounds like a fun experiment. I might do that one day  |
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 13-04-2015 19:10
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Sprinter
Posts: 1961
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Ian Butler wrote:
Is there any point in trying to figure out stats for Wiggins? Didn't he stop now? Or will Team Wiggins be in the next database?
That'd be cool, though 
I'm the only person that actually gave him 78 cobble and flat 79 (higher than the DB) because he had trained especially for this race and it was his last as well.
@Ollfardh
Degenkolb didn't just follow though, he actually took the initiative and rode across to the front two in the lead yesterday and initially used De Backer a bit to do it. He also did quite a bit of work at the front when he caught them and still had the power to win the sprint.
Edited by Tafiolmo on 13-04-2015 19:16
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| fidjim2013 |
Posted on 13-04-2015 19:23
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 348
Joined: 20-11-2013
PCM$: 300.00
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Avin Wargunnson wrote:
sgdanny wrote:
Tafiolmo wrote:
At the moment I'm deciding on these but could still change, I've also taken into consideration that the cobbled races are based on around 75% cobble stat and 25% flat even when there are long flat sections in the race (I think jesley mentioned this %)
82- Cancellara
81- Vanmarcke, Van Avermaet, Stybar
80- Boonen, Terpstra, Kristoff, Degenkolb, Thomas
79- Vandenbergh, Boom, Sagan
78- Langeveld, Stannard, Wiggins
most of the others that have been mentioned I have on around 77-75
I totally agree with these stats and should reflect yesterdays result in the game, also I agree with the domnestiques stats from Jesleyh
No way that Thomas should be higher than Boom or Sagan, that is just joke, also the rest of SKY riders are way too high...also no reason to put GVA or Vanmarcke two points above Sagan.
The stats seems good you can't accept it because you got favoritism for peter sagan and you don't like team sky. |
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| asoutar |
Posted on 13-04-2015 19:38
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Junior Rider
Posts: 40
Joined: 23-08-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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I must be missing something why do GVA, Stybar and Vanmarcke get higher stats than everyone else. I like these riders but I don't see why they merit more than someone like Niki Terpstra. |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 29-09-2024 16:32
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Bot Agent
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Joined: 23.11.09
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 13-04-2015 19:55
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Sprinter
Posts: 1961
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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@Fidjim
I think you'll find that Sagan is usually disliked on here and people are more often trying to put his stats down rather than up.
Most people dislike Sky but people on here are honest enough and want realism to five their riders the correct stats. It's just that rider like Thomas are not easy to give the correct stats to.
@asoutar
I remember when we were discussing the cobble stats last year and the argument against Terpstra was that he won Roubaix on the flat and not on the cobbles and I guess that this has remained in some people's mind. The same argument has been used against Thomas this year that he does it on the flat and not so much on the cobbles.
Edited by Tafiolmo on 13-04-2015 19:55
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| asoutar |
Posted on 13-04-2015 20:02
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Junior Rider
Posts: 40
Joined: 23-08-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Tafiolmo wrote:
I remember when we were discussing the cobble stats last year and the argument against Terpstra was that he won Roubaix on the flat and not on the cobbles and I guess that this has remained in some people's mind. The same argument has been used against Thomas this year that he does it on the flat and not so much on the cobbles.
This is true but didn't someone say that the cobble stat is used on the flat aswell in pcm. I believe that around 10 riders should be given the 80 stat as there is nothing between them.
Edit: It's funny how Cancellarra seems to have got better by not racing this year
Edited by asoutar on 13-04-2015 20:10
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 13-04-2015 20:14
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Sprinter
Posts: 1961
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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asoutar wrote:
Tafiolmo wrote:
I remember when we were discussing the cobble stats last year and the argument against Terpstra was that he won Roubaix on the flat and not on the cobbles and I guess that this has remained in some people's mind. The same argument has been used against Thomas this year that he does it on the flat and not so much on the cobbles.
This is true but didn't someone say that the cobble stat is used on the flat aswell in pcm. I believe that around 10 riders should be given the 80 stat as there is nothing between them.
Edit: It's funny how Cancellarra seems to have got better by not racing this year
From what I understand cobble is only used on cobble and nothing else, whereas flat used for so many things. But in cobble races the cobble stat is much more dominant like around 70% and then the rest is flat and even hill.
For example when you play Kuurne-Brussels-Kuurne clearly a sprinters race but because it's part of the Flanders season and has some cobbles, the game always makes the cobble riders favourite, The same also happens with Gent-Wevelgem and its cobbled climbs make it a cobble race and not so much a sprinters race like it usually is in real life. This indicates to me that the cobble stat is much more important than flat for nearly all these races.
He's only been injured a few weeks but at least showed that by winning a stage this season and finishing in the bunch sprint at MSR he was on the kind of form that he had last year.
Edited by Tafiolmo on 13-04-2015 20:16
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| asoutar |
Posted on 13-04-2015 20:18
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Junior Rider
Posts: 40
Joined: 23-08-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Tafiolmo wrote:
asoutar wrote:
Tafiolmo wrote:
I remember when we were discussing the cobble stats last year and the argument against Terpstra was that he won Roubaix on the flat and not on the cobbles and I guess that this has remained in some people's mind. The same argument has been used against Thomas this year that he does it on the flat and not so much on the cobbles.
This is true but didn't someone say that the cobble stat is used on the flat aswell in pcm. I believe that around 10 riders should be given the 80 stat as there is nothing between them.
Edit: It's funny how Cancellarra seems to have got better by not racing this year
From what I understand cobble is only used on cobble and nothing else, whereas flat used for so many things. But in cobble races the cobble stat is much more dominant like around 70% and then the rest is flat and even hill.
For example when you play Kuurne-Brussels-Kuurne clearly a sprinters race but because it's part of the Flanders season and has some cobbles, the game always makes the cobble riders favourite, The same also happens with Gent-Wevelgem and its cobbled climbs make it a cobble race and not so much a sprinters race like it usually is in real life. This indicates to me that the cobble stat is much more important than flat for nearly all these races.
He's only been injured a few weeks but at least showed that by winning a stage this season and finishing in the bunch sprint at MSR he was on the kind of form that he had last year.
Can you change this in sta_type_tour? |
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 13-04-2015 20:22
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Sprinter
Posts: 1961
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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asoutar wrote:
Tafiolmo wrote:
asoutar wrote:
Tafiolmo wrote:
I remember when we were discussing the cobble stats last year and the argument against Terpstra was that he won Roubaix on the flat and not on the cobbles and I guess that this has remained in some people's mind. The same argument has been used against Thomas this year that he does it on the flat and not so much on the cobbles.
This is true but didn't someone say that the cobble stat is used on the flat aswell in pcm. I believe that around 10 riders should be given the 80 stat as there is nothing between them.
Edit: It's funny how Cancellarra seems to have got better by not racing this year
From what I understand cobble is only used on cobble and nothing else, whereas flat used for so many things. But in cobble races the cobble stat is much more dominant like around 70% and then the rest is flat and even hill.
For example when you play Kuurne-Brussels-Kuurne clearly a sprinters race but because it's part of the Flanders season and has some cobbles, the game always makes the cobble riders favourite, The same also happens with Gent-Wevelgem and its cobbled climbs make it a cobble race and not so much a sprinters race like it usually is in real life. This indicates to me that the cobble stat is much more important than flat for nearly all these races.
He's only been injured a few weeks but at least showed that by winning a stage this season and finishing in the bunch sprint at MSR he was on the kind of form that he had last year.
Can you change this in sta_type_tour?
I'm the wrong person to ask for this type of thing, stats is my thing and how races look etc, but I'm sure that somebody on here will easily know the answer. I'd be interested myself so I could correct this error for these races. |
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| asoutar |
Posted on 13-04-2015 20:30
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Junior Rider
Posts: 40
Joined: 23-08-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Just looked in the database and Gent-Wevelgelm is meant to be like Paris-Roubaix as in the favourites will be the same for both. |
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 13-04-2015 20:34
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Sprinter
Posts: 1961
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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asoutar wrote:
Just looked in the database and Gent-Wevelgelm is meant to be like Paris-Roubaix as in the favourites will be the same for both.
Well it's not so crazy because Kristoff, Degenkolb and Sagan can in theory win both. Whereas riders like Cancellara, Vanmarcke, Stybar y GVA can only win Roubaix unless we get more Gent-Wevelgems like 2015. |
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| asoutar |
Posted on 13-04-2015 20:38
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Junior Rider
Posts: 40
Joined: 23-08-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Tafiolmo wrote:
asoutar wrote:
Just looked in the database and Gent-Wevelgelm is meant to be like Paris-Roubaix as in the favourites will be the same for both.
Well it's not so crazy because Kristoff, Degenkolb and Sagan can in theory win both. Whereas riders like Cancellara, Vanmarcke, Stybar y GVA can only win Roubaix unless we get more Gent-Wevelgems like 2015.
There is a type_tour for previous G-W though which would make the Sprinter types the favourites and cobble specialists still favourites but more of outsiders. |
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| matt17br |
Posted on 14-04-2015 14:41
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 10525
Joined: 28-09-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Keep in mind that sta_type_tour will only affect the favourites that the AI will generate for the race, not the actual results. GW is not a sprinters race imo, and this year's edition, more than any of the previous others, proved it.
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 15-04-2015 06:32
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World Champion
Posts: 14236
Joined: 20-06-2011
PCM$: 300.00
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matt17br wrote:
Keep in mind that sta_type_tour will only affect the favourites that the AI will generate for the race, not the actual results. GW is not a sprinters race imo, and this year's edition, more than any of the previous others, proved it.
Well, when i look up on last 15-20 years winners, almost all are sprinters with good cobble ability, but all of them are fast finishers. 
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 15-04-2015 08:48
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World Champion
Posts: 14501
Joined: 08-08-2011
PCM$: 8500.00
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This year's edition was a bit of a freak. Normally it's a reduced sprint.
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| matt17br |
Posted on 15-04-2015 12:48
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 10525
Joined: 28-09-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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You're both right, but it's far from being a sprinters race.
Edited by matt17br on 15-04-2015 12:48
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 15-04-2015 12:53
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 18168
Joined: 12-05-2012
PCM$: 0.00
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matt17br wrote:
You're both right, but it's far from being a sprinters race.
You know Gent-Wevelgem is called "The Sprinters Classic"? It's much more of a sprinters race than a cobblers race irl. But yes in game it has cobbles and therefore has to be counted as such in stat discussions.
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 15-04-2015 13:00
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World Champion
Posts: 14501
Joined: 08-08-2011
PCM$: 8500.00
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I'd say it's a sprinters race with cobbled sections. Kristoff and Degenkolb should be the favourites, as they easily take the cobbles and have a good sprint. Half decent cobblers like Steels (2x) and Cipollini (3x) won the race as well, so yes, I would say it's more of a sprinters race then a cobbled race.
But this race is very depending on the weather. This year was extreme of course, but there were other editions where the weather conditions make the race tougher, eliminating the sprinters. Mattan, Boasson Hagen and Eisel come to mind here. But on a day with perfect weather, a sprint Cavendish vs. Kittel would be far from impossible.
But well, I think we were talking about stats? 
Edited by Ollfardh on 15-04-2015 13:30
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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