ryant wrote:
I feel that having Degenkolb at 81 COB makes me very uncomfortable, note we only saw this Degenkolb at Roubaix, at all the other classics he was very much on the defensive and struggled a lot at the Ronde, I could argue in that case Stannard would deserve 80 COB because of Omloop, but we know that isn't the case
He kept up just fine with Stybar and Thomas on the Paterberg, and they are...lemme look...81 and 80 with +2 and +-0 hill.
And yes Styby and G were slightly weakened already there with Sagan going past them, but Degenkolb was very strong too, wouldn't say struggled.
Edited by Alakagom on 12-04-2015 20:42
7th as a result is not bad yes, but he wasn't too impressive for me, I do agree that he was the best today, but 81? for me that is jumping the gun, I'd give Kristoff the better cobble stat if anything
John St Ledger in Team Bunzl-Centrica and Team U25
ryant wrote:
7th as a result is not bad yes, but he wasn't too impressive for me, I do agree that he was the best today, but 81? for me that is jumping the gun, I'd give Kristoff the better cobble stat if anything
Yes, I actually see both of them being 81 in all honesty, however this comes as matter of opinion, I always say when we are talking about difference of one stat it's just matter of opinion and everyone has their own view on it, can't please everyone. As long as there are no riders at the top where you see 2 stats off what he has it's all fine
ryant wrote:
7th as a result is not bad yes, but he wasn't too impressive for me, I do agree that he was the best today, but 81? for me that is jumping the gun, I'd give Kristoff the better cobble stat if anything
Yes, I actually see both of them being 81 in all honesty, however this comes as matter of opinion, I always say when we are talking about difference of one stat it's just matter of opinion and everyone has their own view on it, can't please everyone. As long as there are no riders at the top where you see 2 stats off what he has it's all fine
yeah, I'll agree with that. You cant please everyone so it wont make too much of a difference anyway
John St Ledger in Team Bunzl-Centrica and Team U25
ryant wrote:
7th as a result is not bad yes, but he wasn't too impressive for me, I do agree that he was the best today, but 81? for me that is jumping the gun, I'd give Kristoff the better cobble stat if anything
That doesn't make any sense, mate. Roubaix is a pure cobble race and Degenkolb has been one of the strongest riders 2 years in a row. Last year he was the only one capable of matching every acceleration by Vanmarcke and Cancellara (along with Stybar too maybe? My memory fails me) and this year he was easily one of the 2 or 3 strongest in the cobbles, following Vanmarcke when he attacked and exiting pretty much every cobbled section in the first 5 positions.
You'd give Kristoff the better cobble stat because Degenkolb didn't impress you in RvV, but Kristoff usually does great in RvV but never manages to keep up with the best in Paris-Roubaix. IMO Dege should be one point higher in CO and FL, with Kristoff better in HI.
82 - Vanmarcke
81 - Van Avermaet, Degenkolb, Stybar
80 - Kristoff, Terpstra
79 - Boom, Thomas
78 - Sagan, Vandenbergh, Roelandts
77 - Elmiger, Stannard, etc.
Van Avermaet should have higher hill and lower flat compared to the others. Kristoff maybe 75 hills, Dege 73. I don't know about Cancellara and Boonen. Honestly, I don't think Cancellara was stronger than Vanmarcke last year, I think they were about the same with Vanmarcke maybe a tick better. Vanmarcke was dissapointing this year though. I can't rate Boonen higher than 79 right now, he just doesn't have the results in the last couple of years to justify an 80.
ryant wrote:
7th as a result is not bad yes, but he wasn't too impressive for me, I do agree that he was the best today, but 81? for me that is jumping the gun, I'd give Kristoff the better cobble stat if anything
That doesn't make any sense, mate. Roubaix is a pure cobble race and Degenkolb has been one of the strongest riders 2 years in a row. Last year he was the only one capable of matching every acceleration by Vanmarcke and Cancellara (along with Stybar too maybe? My memory fails me) and this year he was easily one of the 2 or 3 strongest in the cobbles, following Vanmarcke when he attacked and exiting pretty much every cobbled section in the first 5 positions.
You'd give Kristoff the better cobble stat because Degenkolb didn't impress you in RvV, but Kristoff usually does great in RvV but never manages to keep up with the best in Paris-Roubaix. IMO Dege should be one point higher in CO and FL, with Kristoff better in HI.
82 - Vanmarcke
81 - Van Avermaet, Degenkolb, Stybar
80 - Kristoff, Terpstra
79 - Boom, Thomas
78 - Sagan, Vandenbergh, Roelandts
77 - Elmiger, Stannard, etc.
Van Avermaet should have higher hill and lower flat compared to the others. Kristoff maybe 75 hills, Dege 73. I don't know about Cancellara and Boonen. Honestly, I don't think Cancellara was stronger than Vanmarcke last year, I think they were about the same with Vanmarcke maybe a tick better. Vanmarcke was dissapointing this year though. I can't rate Boonen higher than 79 right now, he just doesn't have the results in the last couple of years to justify an 80.
The recent performances of vanmarcke doesn't jusitify 82 he derserves 81 at the best right now
82: Cancellara
81: Degenkolb, Van Avermaet, Vanmarcke
80: Terpstra, Stybar, Thomas
79: Boom, Kristoff, Sagan, Vandenbergh, Boonen
78: Roelandts, Elmiger, Keukeleire
77: Langeveld, De Backer, Wiggins, Stannard, Lampaert etc.
Kristoff, Sagan, Boonen would all have some of the best backup stats so i think that justifies the stats given. Just wanted to add that Rowe deserves 70+ Hil rating, he was great in the flanders and also in the last years Vuelta.
Naxela wrote:
82: Cancellara
81: Degenkolb, Van Avermaet, Vanmarcke
80: Terpstra, Stybar, Thomas
79: Boom, Kristoff, Sagan, Vandenbergh, Boonen
78: Roelandts, Elmiger, Keukeleire
77: Langeveld, De Backer, Wiggins, Stannard, Lampaert etc.
Kristoff, Sagan, Boonen would all have some of the best backup stats so i think that justifies the stats given. Just wanted to add that Rowe deserves 70+ Hil rating, he was great in the flanders and also in the last years Vuelta.
I agree on what you said but stannard I think he deserve 78 cob with lower backup stats.
ryant wrote:
7th as a result is not bad yes, but he wasn't too impressive for me, I do agree that he was the best today, but 81? for me that is jumping the gun, I'd give Kristoff the better cobble stat if anything
That doesn't make any sense, mate. Roubaix is a pure cobble race and Degenkolb has been one of the strongest riders 2 years in a row. Last year he was the only one capable of matching every acceleration by Vanmarcke and Cancellara (along with Stybar too maybe? My memory fails me) and this year he was easily one of the 2 or 3 strongest in the cobbles, following Vanmarcke when he attacked and exiting pretty much every cobbled section in the first 5 positions.
You'd give Kristoff the better cobble stat because Degenkolb didn't impress you in RvV, but Kristoff usually does great in RvV but never manages to keep up with the best in Paris-Roubaix. IMO Dege should be one point higher in CO and FL, with Kristoff better in HI.
82 - Vanmarcke
81 - Van Avermaet, Degenkolb, Stybar
80 - Kristoff, Terpstra
79 - Boom, Thomas
78 - Sagan, Vandenbergh, Roelandts
77 - Elmiger, Stannard, etc.
Van Avermaet should have higher hill and lower flat compared to the others. Kristoff maybe 75 hills, Dege 73. I don't know about Cancellara and Boonen. Honestly, I don't think Cancellara was stronger than Vanmarcke last year, I think they were about the same with Vanmarcke maybe a tick better. Vanmarcke was dissapointing this year though. I can't rate Boonen higher than 79 right now, he just doesn't have the results in the last couple of years to justify an 80.
Sagan with lesser cobble stat than Kristoff, Boom or Thomas does not make any sense to me, or 78 for Roelandts either.
For those talking about Boonen's lack of result, I have to point out that the last time he could compete without problems, he won E3, Wevelgem, Ronde and Roubaix. Although the last two were without Cancellara. Still, he's the only one in history to have accomplished that. That should give him some credit imo.
About Vanmarcke, well. I don't know really. Where I expected him to continue his growing curve, it was with ups and downs this year. Remember Omloop and Kuurne? We were ready to give him 83 cobble at that point. E3 was a tactical error (although one that Cancellara wouldn't have made in my opinion). In Wevelgem he didn't seem fresh. In Ronde he had a bad moment on the Taaienberg, only to ride back solo and almost made it if it wasn't for the Kristoff/Terpstra attack. Roubaix he seemed to be at his best again, but got a puncture when he was attacking and apparently got a wrong wheel from the neutral car. I'd still put him at 81.
Degenkolb, still not convinced he should be at 81. He's just not amongst the top 5 cobblers. He's a sprinter with a lot of power, who takes cobbles decently enough not to be dropped. He has the endurance for a long race (remember San Remo) and can be really strong on the flat. On the cobbles he can follow, but that's about it. But if you got his sprint, following is all you need to do.
Ollfardh wrote:
For those talking about Boonen's lack of result, I have to point out that the last time he could compete without problems, he won E3, Wevelgem, Ronde and Roubaix. Although the last two were without Cancellara. Still, he's the only one in history to have accomplished that. That should give him some credit imo.
Back in 2012 when that happened Bradley Wiggins won Paris-Nice, Tour Romandie, Dauphine and then the Tour a record only he holds in all of cycling. Since 2012 Boonen showed good things in the 2014 classics, whilst Wiggins showed good things in the 2013 ToB, 2014 AToC, two Roubaixs and won a World title.
Yet Wiggins has been nerfed whilst Boonen maintains his best stats... (just for a point of comparision that we probably shouldn't go back 3 years for stats. Not saying Wiggins should be an 80MO)
At the moment I'm deciding on these but could still change, I've also taken into consideration that the cobbled races are based on around 75% cobble stat and 25% flat even when there are long flat sections in the race (I think jesley mentioned this %)
Tafiolmo wrote:
At the moment I'm deciding on these but could still change, I've also taken into consideration that the cobbled races are based on around 75% cobble stat and 25% flat even when there are long flat sections in the race (I think jesley mentioned this %)
Ollfardh wrote:
For those talking about Boonen's lack of result, I have to point out that the last time he could compete without problems, he won E3, Wevelgem, Ronde and Roubaix. Although the last two were without Cancellara. Still, he's the only one in history to have accomplished that. That should give him some credit imo.
Back in 2012 when that happened Bradley Wiggins won Paris-Nice, Tour Romandie, Dauphine and then the Tour a record only he holds in all of cycling. Since 2012 Boonen showed good things in the 2014 classics, whilst Wiggins showed good things in the 2013 ToB, 2014 AToC, two Roubaixs and won a World title.
Yet Wiggins has been nerfed whilst Boonen maintains his best stats... (just for a point of comparision that we probably shouldn't go back 3 years for stats. Not saying Wiggins should be an 80MO)
True, but Wiggins has just become a different rider, why we gave him a huge boost for the classics while taking away his MO stat. Boonen is still a cobbler, so I don't think it can be compared.
I'm not saying Boonen should still have his 2012 stats, but I want to point out that people who are only taking his lack of results into consideration, should probably take a better look into why he hasn't had any results lately. It's not pure decline like Basso
Tafiolmo wrote:
At the moment I'm deciding on these but could still change, I've also taken into consideration that the cobbled races are based on around 75% cobble stat and 25% flat even when there are long flat sections in the race (I think jesley mentioned this %)
most of the others that have been mentioned I have on around 77-75
I totally agree with these stats and should reflect yesterdays result in the game, also I agree with the domnestiques stats from Jesleyh
No way that Thomas should be higher than Boom or Sagan, that is just joke, also the rest of SKY riders are way too high...also no reason to put GVA or Vanmarcke two points above Sagan.
No way that Thomas should be higher than Boom or Sagan, that is just joke, also the rest of SKY riders are way too high...also no reason to put GVA or Vanmarcke two points above Sagan.
The only reason why Thomas is on 80 is to make him a leading contender for the cobbled races, because the game recognizes the cobble stat much more than the flat stat. We know that Thomas puts his attacks on the paved section but the game doesn't recognize this that much and concentrates on the cobble stat.
Sagan this year has ridden almost like a former shadow of himself and is worthy of being only 79, he has his sprint and hill stat to make him always a contender anyway and high stamina.
The Sky riders are correct, they have proved to be the strongest team in the cobble races this season with Etixx, always riding near the front and having quite a few men still around near the end of the race.
I had a spare 20 minutes and thought it would be fun and helpful to add up all the cobble stat suggestions here to find the average score for each main rider (I've rounded up or down to the nearest whole number) I used those that have put them on the last couple of pages Paul, Jesley, Ollfardh, Omloop, Kentaurus, Morganho, Naxela, Maddox and Myself and these are what came out:
Interestingly both Van Avermaet and Stybar had exactly the same average score down to the point. The biggest debate seems to be Degenkolb as a number of people equally voted him between 79 and 81 but more nearer 81 which gave him 80.
The whole thing is like the Eurovision Song Contest and Cancellara won it yet again without even singing his song.
Hopefully these stats will tighten the debate as we now have the averages.
Edited by Tafiolmo on 13-04-2015 14:20
![imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg](https://imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg)
