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Sky Doping/Hate Thread
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| Likkivi |
Posted on 09-07-2012 17:35
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Schleck96 wrote:
I think that some people here are starting to act like idiots with each other. Seriously you should calm down yourselves. And talking about Sky (Froome to be most specific) I can't say that he is doped but it seems like. If we make a "rewind" in his career, in 2010 his best result was 9th place in the Tour de Haut Var. In 2011 he had top 15 finishes in the Vuelta a Castilla y León and the Tour de Romandie. Fair amount of progress imo. In August he enters the Vuelta and kicks everybody's ass out of nowhere. Seems kinda suspicious. Now he crushes Cancellara in a TT when Spartacus is in GREAT Shape. There are reasons to look at him in a suspicious way imo.
That's the problem. It's so obvious which makes it unbearable that some people completely deny the possibility of doping. |
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| Likkivi |
Posted on 09-07-2012 17:37
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CLURPR wrote:
Alakagom wrote:
Likkivi wrote:
TheManxMissile wrote:
Likkivi wrote:
CLURPR wrote:
Likkivi wrote:
Likkivi wrote:
Took this from another site:
Gert Leinders, Sky,s Team Dr Has an "Interesting" History.
Forums elswhere are buzzing with incredulity at whats going on and the desciption "UK Postal" is geting used and it most certainly aint a compliment. ....and then we have this little revelation : "Leinders was team doctor for Sigma, Histor, Panasonic and Lotto before becoming team doctor for Rabobank in 1996. He left Rabobank in 2009 citing 'dissatisfaction with the policies of the new management of the cycling team'.
According to Rabobank one of those new policies bought in between 2007 and July 2009 was a 'zero tolerance' attitude to doping, a policy that followed an internal investigation into the use of doping within the team during the period Leinders was the team doctor, an investigation that was triggered by Michael Rasmussen’s expulsion from the Tour de France"
There's the evidence.
I noticed this argument stands alone. It's settled.
Now it's just a question of time before it leads to a ban.
Stop being an idiot, just because a doctor with doping history is on the team doesn't mean you have evidence. Keep your mouth shut from now on about banning Team Sky unless you have a positive test for me to look at 
I see you have no counter argument so you get angry instead. Don't worry. That's normal.
But it doesn't change the fact of this time line.
Geert Leinders at Rabobank = Rasmussen kicked out of Tour
Geert Leinders stops at Rabobank = All Rabobank riders start declining
Geert Leinders at Sky: Froome out of nothing dominates Vuelta and Tour
Rasmussen missed a test, did not have a positive test
All Rabo rider decline what?
Have you seen Rabobank in this Tour?
Clearly lacking a hint of Geert.
What are you on about ?
They were unlucky to be involved in crashes.
Nothing to do with doctor 
+1 Alakagom, clearly this guy hasn't been watching the Tour properly else he would have known. I mean come on Leinders isn't that powerful to stop their entire team being involved in crashes repeatedly is he?
Rabobank hasn't really been troubled by the crashes. Gesink isn't injured. He is just really bad at every stage. |
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 09-07-2012 17:37
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Tour de France Champion
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Likkivi wrote:
Schleck96 wrote:
I think that some people here are starting to act like idiots with each other. Seriously you should calm down yourselves. And talking about Sky (Froome to be most specific) I can't say that he is doped but it seems like. If we make a "rewind" in his career, in 2010 his best result was 9th place in the Tour de Haut Var. In 2011 he had top 15 finishes in the Vuelta a Castilla y León and the Tour de Romandie. Fair amount of progress imo. In August he enters the Vuelta and kicks everybody's ass out of nowhere. Seems kinda suspicious. Now he crushes Cancellara in a TT when Spartacus is in GREAT Shape. There are reasons to look at him in a suspicious way imo.
That's the problem. It's so obvious which makes it unbearable that some people completely deny the possibility of doping.
A strong result does not mean people doped.
Do you believe Boonen doped in March? Iglynsky in April? Contador in any past year? Voeckler last year? Froome in the Vuelta? Kittel last year?
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| Schleck96 |
Posted on 09-07-2012 17:39
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TheManxMissile wrote:
Likkivi wrote:
Schleck96 wrote:
I think that some people here are starting to act like idiots with each other. Seriously you should calm down yourselves. And talking about Sky (Froome to be most specific) I can't say that he is doped but it seems like. If we make a "rewind" in his career, in 2010 his best result was 9th place in the Tour de Haut Var. In 2011 he had top 15 finishes in the Vuelta a Castilla y León and the Tour de Romandie. Fair amount of progress imo. In August he enters the Vuelta and kicks everybody's ass out of nowhere. Seems kinda suspicious. Now he crushes Cancellara in a TT when Spartacus is in GREAT Shape. There are reasons to look at him in a suspicious way imo.
That's the problem. It's so obvious which makes it unbearable that some people completely deny the possibility of doping.
A strong result does not mean people doped.
Do you believe Boonen doped in March? Iglynsky in April? Contador in any past year? Voeckler last year? Froome in the Vuelta? Kittel last year?
Dude, seriouly? Did you just write THIS? Judging this YOUR way, Boonen is a rider that before the April Cobbles didn't have any results maybe. Was it? |
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| ianrussell |
Posted on 09-07-2012 17:40
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Omg support from Braj ion Twitter 
"Couple of years ago every1 was laughing at @TeamSky for doing million things trying to improve performance, now when they're flying it's very easy to say they must be doing something... Yes, they r, training, nutrition, dedication, etc. well deserved".
I hope that's it too Jani. |
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 09-07-2012 17:41
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Tour de France Champion
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Schleck96 wrote:
TheManxMissile wrote:
Likkivi wrote:
Schleck96 wrote:
I think that some people here are starting to act like idiots with each other. Seriously you should calm down yourselves. And talking about Sky (Froome to be most specific) I can't say that he is doped but it seems like. If we make a "rewind" in his career, in 2010 his best result was 9th place in the Tour de Haut Var. In 2011 he had top 15 finishes in the Vuelta a Castilla y León and the Tour de Romandie. Fair amount of progress imo. In August he enters the Vuelta and kicks everybody's ass out of nowhere. Seems kinda suspicious. Now he crushes Cancellara in a TT when Spartacus is in GREAT Shape. There are reasons to look at him in a suspicious way imo.
That's the problem. It's so obvious which makes it unbearable that some people completely deny the possibility of doping.
A strong result does not mean people doped.
Do you believe Boonen doped in March? Iglynsky in April? Contador in any past year? Voeckler last year? Froome in the Vuelta? Kittel last year?
Dude, seriouly? Did you just write THIS? Judging this YOUR way, Boonen is a rider that before the April Cobbles didn't have any results maybe. Was it?
No i meant winning all 4, a feat never achieved before
And riding away from all over the last 50km of PR
When Cancellara did it everyone was convinced he had a motor on his bike
Wiggins has TT results and GC results to back him up
Froome less so, but he's raced less
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| Schleck96 |
Posted on 09-07-2012 17:43
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Now you are changing it. I didn't talk about Wiggins. And a about Boonen how many races had he won before 2012 spring? You just need to know that he has been a World Champion. 'Nough said. And Froome, yes I believe he has doped |
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 09-07-2012 17:45
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Schleck96 wrote:
Now you are changing it. I didn't talk about Wiggins. And a about Boonen how many races had he won before 2012 spring? You just need to know that he has been a World Champion. 'Nough said. And Froome, yes I believe he has doped #
Fair enough
I dont believe he has doped
Frankly its all pointless yelling unless they fail a doping test or admit to doping
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| CLURPR |
Posted on 09-07-2012 17:45
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Domestique
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Likkivi wrote:
CLURPR wrote:
Alakagom wrote:
Likkivi wrote:
TheManxMissile wrote:
Likkivi wrote:
CLURPR wrote:
Likkivi wrote:
Likkivi wrote:
Took this from another site:
Gert Leinders, Sky,s Team Dr Has an "Interesting" History.
Forums elswhere are buzzing with incredulity at whats going on and the desciption "UK Postal" is geting used and it most certainly aint a compliment. ....and then we have this little revelation : "Leinders was team doctor for Sigma, Histor, Panasonic and Lotto before becoming team doctor for Rabobank in 1996. He left Rabobank in 2009 citing 'dissatisfaction with the policies of the new management of the cycling team'.
According to Rabobank one of those new policies bought in between 2007 and July 2009 was a 'zero tolerance' attitude to doping, a policy that followed an internal investigation into the use of doping within the team during the period Leinders was the team doctor, an investigation that was triggered by Michael Rasmussen’s expulsion from the Tour de France"
There's the evidence.
I noticed this argument stands alone. It's settled.
Now it's just a question of time before it leads to a ban.
Stop being an idiot, just because a doctor with doping history is on the team doesn't mean you have evidence. Keep your mouth shut from now on about banning Team Sky unless you have a positive test for me to look at
I see you have no counter argument so you get angry instead. Don't worry. That's normal.
But it doesn't change the fact of this time line.
Geert Leinders at Rabobank = Rasmussen kicked out of Tour
Geert Leinders stops at Rabobank = All Rabobank riders start declining
Geert Leinders at Sky: Froome out of nothing dominates Vuelta and Tour
Rasmussen missed a test, did not have a positive test
All Rabo rider decline what?
Have you seen Rabobank in this Tour?
Clearly lacking a hint of Geert.
What are you on about ?
They were unlucky to be involved in crashes.
Nothing to do with doctor
+1 Alakagom, clearly this guy hasn't been watching the Tour properly else he would have known. I mean come on Leinders isn't that powerful to stop their entire team being involved in crashes repeatedly is he?
Rabobank hasn't really been troubled by the crashes. Gesink isn't injured. He is just really bad at every stage.
Are you completely blind? Their entire team was caught in a single crash and all, if not most, of their riders hit the deck and suffered an injury of some sort. Heck even Wynants had to abandon because of it.
Read both of these articles:
https://www.velonation.com/News/ID/123...rophe.aspx
https://www.velonation.com/News/ID/123...esink.aspx |
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| Smoku |
Posted on 09-07-2012 17:46
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Domestique
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What I do not believe in is judging the development of a rider on a few random TT results. Yes, Froome came out of nowhere on Vuelta comparing to his previous results. But this may be broken down simply to him not having to push in any TT before since he was not seen as a title contender.
Sometimes I feel like the years of doping and video games have made used to see a big difference in the quality of professional riders. Meanwjhile I believe the differences between professionals are a lot smaller that people think. Some cyclists graded as average could fight for victories if only given the chance (Hesjedal, Froome on VE 2011, Sagan before last year's TdP for heaven's sake). And what is most scary managers seem to think like that as well - look at Nibali-Basso relationship in the last 2 or 3 TdFs. Liquigas could possibly get more results with Nibbles if they were not so much into believing that Basso is better.
Seriously, if we want to see cycling without doping, we have to be prepared for smaller differences between riders - and larger advance in the results once they are given the chance to lead.
Edited by Smoku on 09-07-2012 17:49
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| Ste117 |
Posted on 09-07-2012 18:21
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More than half the peleton have most probaly dope/ failed a doping test at some point in their career. Some haven't and get cruelly witch hunted like Valverde, yes this again, you know I will defend him tooth and nail, I have been a fan of Valverde since 2006.
All I am going to say is "Innocent until proven guilty". Yes it is ok to speculate and have suspicions but until a test has been failed then we just have to agree that he might not be doping. The rest day will be key in all this, as riders under suspicion will get tested and found out.They always do on the rest days. Vino and Astana in 2007/Cofidis riders too. Contador in 2009.
MG Team manager Team Ticos Air Costa Rica
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 09-07-2012 18:26
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Ste117 wrote:
More than half the peleton have most probaly dope/ failed a doping test at some point in their career. Some haven't and get cruelly witch hunted like Valverde, yes this again, you know I will defend him tooth and nail, I have been a fan of Valverde since 2006.
All I am going to say is "Innocent until proven guilty". Yes it is ok to speculate and have suspicions but until a test has been failed then we just have to agree that he might not be doping. The rest day will be key in all this, as riders under suspicion will get tested and found out.They always do on the rest days. Vino and Astana in 2007/Cofidis riders too. Contador in 2009.
*2010
So we may not know for 2 years? if they are doping, this could ruin the coming years and get faulty tainted results 
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
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| Ste117 |
Posted on 09-07-2012 18:28
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baseballlover312 wrote:
Ste117 wrote:
More than half the peleton have most probaly dope/ failed a doping test at some point in their career. Some haven't and get cruelly witch hunted like Valverde, yes this again, you know I will defend him tooth and nail, I have been a fan of Valverde since 2006.
All I am going to say is "Innocent until proven guilty". Yes it is ok to speculate and have suspicions but until a test has been failed then we just have to agree that he might not be doping. The rest day will be key in all this, as riders under suspicion will get tested and found out.They always do on the rest days. Vino and Astana in 2007/Cofidis riders too. Contador in 2009.
*2010
So we may not know for 2 years? if they are doping, this could ruin the coming years and get faulty tainted results
That's the way Cycling is at the moment, WADA want to make sure they nail there men, even if it does take that long. At least dopers will finally get their punishment.
MG Team manager Team Ticos Air Costa Rica
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| issoisso |
Posted on 09-07-2012 18:30
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Tour de France Champion
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Cancellara a minute behind? Sky 1-2?
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| CLURPR |
Posted on 09-07-2012 18:33
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Domestique
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issoisso wrote:
Cancellara a minute behind? Sky 1-2?
Lol |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 09-07-2012 18:36
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I find this hilarious. I honestly do.
From the moment that Rogers publicly gloats about his wattages beating his own ones from when he was provedly involved in a expensive team wide doping program of EPO and blood bags, you just know that being caught doesn't even enter their minds.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 09-07-2012 18:46
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CLURPR wrote:
issoisso wrote:
Cancellara a minute behind? Sky 1-2?
Lol
 Hmmm... I can't see that being forged! 
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
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| Kirchen_75 |
Posted on 09-07-2012 18:54
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issoisso wrote:
Cancellara a minute behind? Sky 1-2?
Definitely |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 09-07-2012 18:54
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jph27 wrote:
The real question is not if, but what Sky are taking. Whatever it is, it'll be undetectable. And that's a scary thought. I may have my cynical hat on here, but that whole Turbo trainer business may be more than a warm down, remember the tales about Cyclists waking in the middle of the night and getting on a bike in their rooms?
They're not just tales, they happened. With so much EPO, so much of their blood became red blood cells that the blood was no longer liquid. It was red sludge that their heart couldn't shove through arteries effectively, so if the heart rate went below a certain number they died.
So, they all slept attached to a heart monitor that rang an alarm to make the team staff run in screaming to wake the guy up, give him a saline solution to thin the blood and put him on a trainer to get the heart working faster
As kumazan said though, that won't happen now, nobody will get their HcT to even 49.9% (Armstrong's favorite value), much less the 60%+ of those days
valverde321 wrote:
Aquarius wrote:
valverde321 wrote:
jph27 wrote:
Maybe Sky are doping, but are you naive enough to think they are the only ones? And let's face it, they aren't stupid enough to get caught here.
This.
Also the doctors point made by Alakagom. If a Doctor only knows one way to get his riders fully prepared for a race, through use of dope, then gets suspended and comes back saying he'll never dope his riders again, but still only knowing one way to get his riders prepared, but is asked to get riders prepared again by the managers, what other way can he really get his riders prepared? Obviously he might have some knowledge being a doctor but if you are a dope doctor, you are a dope doctor imo. Or am I wrong, I dont know a whole lot about doctors, but it doesn't seem like a half bad assumption. I mean if you are a dope doctor and then you're not but your still making your riders improve their results by 100%, through the normal methods it just seems unlikely. Thats just my thoughts on the doctors with shady pasts.
Unless a doctor makes some sort of breakthrough like gluten free diet etc.
People can always change, staff included. But you've got to admit there's some circumstantial evidence (it's not a proof, I admit) when the riders of the team he's in all suddenly improve while he's there, and decline again when he leaves.
And, come on, cycling managers and directors are not more stupid than common people. When they hire one particular doctor, or a doctor with such a history, they do know what they're doing, and why.
They could pick virtually any sport doctor if it was just about healing wounds consecutive to falls, etc.
So i'm not entirely wrong then? Good!
The question though is, why this team that declared itself to be all about clean cycling (past tense. you'll notice they've completely stopped doing that and started signing very suspicious staff and riders like Rogers, Siutsou, Urán, Leinders, etc) somehow couldn't find any doctor but this guy.
Why THIS. DOCTOR. Specifically?
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| issoisso |
Posted on 09-07-2012 18:58
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Tour de France Champion
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Coop wrote:
Well I hope for you that you don't get too disappointed if/when it happens. I like Wiggo too, his TT is not too surprising, he's certainly worked on his climbing so his improvements aren't that shocking. Most people usually lose on one thing to improve in an other though.
That's the insane part. He supposedly lost a ton of weight to improve his climbing....AND GAINED TONS OF POWER????? WHAT???
Get serious, that doesn't even BEGIN to be possible.
The guy, when he was all about power, 100% geared to being the best time triallist possible and nothing else, lost SEVEN AND A HALF FREAKING MINUTES in a time trial
https://www.cqrank...aceid=4079
To suggest that this is normal or even possible clean is to choose to be blind
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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![imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg](https://imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg)
