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PCM 17: AI Behaviour
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| matt17br |
Posted on 15-06-2017 19:53
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 10525
Joined: 28-09-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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A thread for strange AI behavior.
Please post here when you notice weird AI behaviour. Collecting it at one place makes it easier for Cyanide to solve and for us to send it to them in case it's needed.
Template:
- Is it in career mode/stage race mode/single stage mode?
- Could you attach a replay?
- In case you can, when does it happen in the replay (KMs remaining)?
- What happens there?
- What would you like to see/what do you think would be "real" cycling?
Edited by matt17br on 16-06-2017 08:26
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| MartijnVDD |
Posted on 16-06-2017 08:17
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Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 801
Joined: 26-06-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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Fixed to avoid confusion. ;-) |
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| HMNE |
Posted on 17-06-2017 18:31
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Amateur
Posts: 3
Joined: 17-06-2017
PCM$: 200.00
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- One-off race (World Championships, Firenze)
- No replay
- Settings: Everything default except difficulty level hard
- Database: Default with real names
- I decided to try a world championship with Spain and picked the 9 best hill riders for the 2013 edition. At the beginning of the stage 6 riders from other countries attacked and formed a breakaway with a gap of 5 minutes after 60km. With 200km remaining I decided to attack with 6 of my riders on the flat part, just to test how long i could hold off the peloton. To my surprise the peloton didn't care and let me catch the other breakaway riders. From there on it was basically a team time trail until the finish.
[img]https://imgur.com/ZAJ5aR6[/img]
[img]https://imgur.com/FhM733c[/img]
- I must say that I mostly like the AI behavoir this year when it comes to getting into a breakaway. It isn't like in previous editions where there were only allowed like 5 riders total in a breakaway. But this shouldn't exactly mean that I can attack with 6 third tier favourites and team time trial until the finish. Maybe the AI is just too scared of Valverde  |
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| dalia |
Posted on 17-06-2017 23:02
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Amateur
Posts: 7
Joined: 29-07-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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Same on National championship, breakaway go and peloton do nothing, break finish with a gap of 12 minutes |
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| Ninjafluen |
Posted on 17-06-2017 23:40
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Amateur
Posts: 1
Joined: 14-03-2016
PCM$: 200.00
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if you let the AI control the pace of the peloton, breakaway will win 95% of the races.
Breakaway 2017 OP - not cool if you are a pro cyclist sprinter though, and mostly in the beginning of your career with a shit teammates.
Breakaway 4 min. gap 100km to go - 7 teammates go relay 82 power
90km to go 3 min. gap
80km to go 3 min. gap
60km to go 3 min. gap other teams join the chase - my riders go to power 88
50km to go 2min. 40sec. gap
40km to go 2min. 30sec. gap
30km to go 2min. 30sec. gap - my remaining riders go full retardo 99 power until death
20km to go 2 min. gap I have one rider left, close to death i rely on other teams now.
10km to go 1min. 20 sec. gap
5km to go breakaway wins and peloton do one clumsy sprint due to death of teammates
hmm maybe i do a new game with a classic rider join every breakway.. hmm
oh and by the way i won the national jersey first season with 6 minutes back to peloton, yep seems legit...
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| cunego59 |
Posted on 18-06-2017 01:10
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Team Manager
Posts: 6508
Joined: 14-09-2008
PCM$: 1090.00
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I didn't encounter any of those problems so far. I hardly ever do any work in the peloton, and yet only once has a breakaway actually won. That's in career mode though, not pro cyclist or one-off race.
And the breakaways at national championships have been a problem for years ...
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| matt17br |
Posted on 18-06-2017 02:33
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 10525
Joined: 28-09-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Unfortunately, at this point I highly doubt the National Championships will ever be fixed. Sounds like Cyanide would have too change the AI from top to bottom, which makes me wonder just how broken it is 
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| LuckyLukas |
Posted on 18-06-2017 12:20
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Under 23
Posts: 62
Joined: 29-06-2016
PCM$: 200.00
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I just played some hilly classics and like last year I am very disappointed with the AI beahavior.
- One-off race
- difficulty: extreme
- Database: EP Lite
Like last year the AI is way to passive. I think the reason for this passive riding is that the AI makes no difference between a stage and a one day race. In Amstel Gold Race for example I attacked over and over again with Ion Izagirre. The realistic move for Teams without a good Sprinter (Movistar, Quick Step,...) would be to join the attack to get rid of the good Sprinters. Instead those teams set a medium high tempo and get beaten by the likes of Mathews and Degenkolb in the end.
Similar Situation in Il Lombardia
In this race the Teams with good climbers should set the pace very high early on to get rid of the punchy guys like Kwiat, Albersini, Gilbert but this just doesn't happen. |
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| Paul23 |
Posted on 18-06-2017 13:25
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4411
Joined: 10-08-2011
PCM$: 400.00
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LuckyLukas wrote:
I just played some hilly classics and like last year I am very disappointed with the AI beahavior.
- One-off race
- difficulty: extreme
- Database: EP Lite
Like last year the AI is way to passive. I think the reason for this passive riding is that the AI makes no difference between a stage and a one day race. In Amstel Gold Race for example I attacked over and over again with Ion Izagirre. The realistic move for Teams without a good Sprinter (Movistar, Quick Step,...) would be to join the attack to get rid of the good Sprinters. Instead those teams set a medium high tempo and get beaten by the likes of Mathews and Degenkolb in the end.
Similar Situation in Il Lombardia
In this race the Teams with good climbers should set the pace very high early on to get rid of the punchy guys like Kwiat, Albersini, Gilbert but this just doesn't happen.
But that's probably because the HI stat is broken.
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 21-12-2024 12:56
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Bot Agent
Posts: Countless
Joined: 23.11.09
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| IP: None |
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| Vali |
Posted on 18-06-2017 13:58
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Domestique
Posts: 735
Joined: 05-07-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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Paul23 wrote:
LuckyLukas wrote:
I just played some hilly classics and like last year I am very disappointed with the AI beahavior.
- One-off race
- difficulty: extreme
- Database: EP Lite
Like last year the AI is way to passive. I think the reason for this passive riding is that the AI makes no difference between a stage and a one day race. In Amstel Gold Race for example I attacked over and over again with Ion Izagirre. The realistic move for Teams without a good Sprinter (Movistar, Quick Step,...) would be to join the attack to get rid of the good Sprinters. Instead those teams set a medium high tempo and get beaten by the likes of Mathews and Degenkolb in the end.
Similar Situation in Il Lombardia
In this race the Teams with good climbers should set the pace very high early on to get rid of the punchy guys like Kwiat, Albersini, Gilbert but this just doesn't happen.
But that's probably because the HI stat is broken.
I guess the reason for the passiveness in these classics is the "new" MO/HI matrix. Simply because if the pace would be a lot tougher, than climbers would probably win all of them, which obviously isn't realistic. So Cyanide apparently reacted to this problem by adjusting the AI.
Yeah fixing a major issue by implementing another one is a genius idea.
Credits to the_hoyle for my avatar. |
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| ignorance |
Posted on 24-06-2017 10:56
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Amateur
Posts: 1
Joined: 24-06-2017
PCM$: 200.00
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iam currently playing the 2017 version and i have an odd behavior, npcs wont let any rider of mine break away in cyclist mode, i have tried everything i even tried to editing stats to max but at the most i get 20-30 sec before iam back in the field, the problem seems to be that everybody starts sprinting when i do, u can basicly see the entire field start up when i try to break away, oddly enough when known riders like chavez and sagan etc do so, no one seems to care if i chose to follow a break away grp to boost my chances they stop breaking away when i reach them and fall back into the field everytime, so my game is reduced to hoping the npcs catch up who ever breaks away and i get a chance to sprint after staying in the field the entire race/stage, anyone that have encountered this problem and have a solution.
ps its been tried with new player and with high stats both going from 65 avg to 99 avg stats the last was edited that way for testing purpose. |
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| Paul23 |
Posted on 24-06-2017 12:37
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4411
Joined: 10-08-2011
PCM$: 400.00
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ignorance wrote:
iam currently playing the 2017 version and i have an odd behavior, npcs wont let any rider of mine break away in cyclist mode, i have tried everything i even tried to editing stats to max but at the most i get 20-30 sec before iam back in the field, the problem seems to be that everybody starts sprinting when i do, u can basicly see the entire field start up when i try to break away, oddly enough when known riders like chavez and sagan etc do so, no one seems to care if i chose to follow a break away grp to boost my chances they stop breaking away when i reach them and fall back into the field everytime, so my game is reduced to hoping the npcs catch up who ever breaks away and i get a chance to sprint after staying in the field the entire race/stage, anyone that have encountered this problem and have a solution.
ps its been tried with new player and with high stats both going from 65 avg to 99 avg stats the last was edited that way for testing purpose.
First of all, the higher the stats, the more they bring you back. They will not let a top favourite just go away. And then, there's no reason to edit over 85, which is the max. stat.
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| Oggmeista |
Posted on 24-06-2017 20:56
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Amateur
Posts: 11
Joined: 02-08-2016
PCM$: 200.00
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Ok first of all the game a much improved from last years game, whilst i will critizise whats poor I also applaud and praise when i see positive improvements, i particualr the return and improvement of the replay feature, which whilst not perfect is needed and it's great to see it now..
Ok i have a few points to the first is imho a fundemental error in the logic ok the is the scenario were in a breakaway and i'm following the AI's pace my heatrate is 135 and im not taking a turn to relay (pull at the front) the gap to the pack is increasing, then suddenly it starts decreasing very slowly
SO i change mode to relay push the pace to 80+ heartbeat increases to 165+ we are travelling faster and instead of the gap increasing it is decreasing why?, the peleton are not driving at this pace, immidiately and yet it's as if my pace at the front is slow and that the rate chosen makes no difference...this is wrong....my guess is this doesn't even check your speed it's just a set of triggers (scripts) which decide the AI's pace, this is NOT how things work in reality....
Second point is not a bug as such but an suggestion to the logic, concerning relaying again when you want the AI to relay you cannot just set a pace and expect the AI to agree eg say i want to relay up a hill @70 and the suggested speed is between 45-55 if i go ahead i will do all the work the AI will just sit in behind...Now this is where i believe the current logical is wrong, in the reverse scenario and the AI wants you to relay if you don't comply the rate at which the AI is happy increases...Why is this?, surely the AI wants you to relay so in order to convince you it needs to decrease it's asking rate not increase, the same logic which you would use has to apply to the AI in short it is the riders who are refusing to relay which call the shots up to a point at least, if after comprimising and your still not accepting to work, then it can look to attack and break the tow, provided that it doesn't exceed the parameters of the particular #ai riders statistics...if individual riders statistics are being calculated in the game like they should be..
i need to stress I havn't played a full season yet and therefore don't know how the AI react when your a fav so there maybe other mechanics i don't agree with, last year virtually no AI riders would relay with you if you was a top classification rider, when really only the riders in teams which are also challenging for the standings would refuse to work....other teams are looking to benefit from relaying as much as you are, so this was wrong, but may of been changed this year, as i said not as yet in a position to test this... |
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| valaorome |
Posted on 27-06-2017 06:39
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Under 23
Posts: 56
Joined: 31-07-2009
PCM$: 200.00
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Hi,
There is some new if the developer company is developing an AI fix patch for PCM17?
I think the game needs this imperial modification.
Regards
Sal a entrenar cuando te apetezca, y si quieres mejorar hazlo cuando no te apetezca.
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| matt17br |
Posted on 27-06-2017 08:24
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 10525
Joined: 28-09-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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They are, sprint has allegedly been already fixed and they seem to know part of the what's wrong with the hill mountain ratio
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| valaorome |
Posted on 27-06-2017 08:35
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Under 23
Posts: 56
Joined: 31-07-2009
PCM$: 200.00
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Did they fix it? Have they launched a patch? Where is it? There is no new patch in this website.
Thanks for your reply
Regards
Sal a entrenar cuando te apetezca, y si quieres mejorar hazlo cuando no te apetezca.
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| Baldrick |
Posted on 28-06-2017 01:16
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Amateur
Posts: 1
Joined: 30-04-2015
PCM$: 200.00
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Have played PCM for a number of years and have always been a fan of the series. Since the introduction of the pro cyclist mode, this has been my main method of play. However despite the current improvements to this mode (eg revised training system), the current race control is causing some grief.
1) Downhill Effort (pro-cyclist mode)
Changing the downhill effort appears to have virtually no effect on the speed of decent. When placing a team-mate on the front of the group and in follow, he player gets swamped by every other cyclist in the group. This is particularly problematic on classic stages such as Liege-Bastogne-Liege, where having a team-mate lead out for the final sprint to the line (full effort), will see you at the back of the group with every other rider stretch out across the road in front of you.
2) Forced Effort (pro-cyclist mode)
Whilst forced effort (arrow) riding mode is available for the player, it cannot be selected for a team-mate. This causes problems when attempting to set up a sprint lead-out train as the lead rider often sticks in the echelon.
3) Assigned Team-mates (pro-cyclist mode)
As a team leader the riders assigned to you often change during the course of the race. In certain races I have had riders assigned to me alternate between 2 riders about once every second. No only does this rule out the ability to control either rider, it is also very distracting to have team rider list blinking at you as the selection changes. As an alternative please just consider assigning riders at the start of the stage and leave it static.
4) Team-mate assistance after crash (pro-cyclist mode)
Team-mates fail to stop and assist after crash. You may be the team leader, leading the race and if you crash, you are on your own. In addition, because your team-mates are in a different group you loose control over those riders as well. Once again leaving riders assigned to the team leader static and assigned at the start of the race would resolve this. Controlling a rider in a different group also doesn't break realism as most professional races have team radio's in use.
The issues listed above are present in PCM 2017 only and are not present in previous releases. I trust that Cyanide can resolve these matters. |
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| sierramike |
Posted on 30-06-2017 18:44
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Under 23
Posts: 69
Joined: 19-07-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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Baldrick wrote:
2) Forced Effort (pro-cyclist mode)
Whilst forced effort (arrow) riding mode is available for the player, it cannot be selected for a team-mate. This causes problems when attempting to set up a sprint lead-out train as the lead rider often sticks in the echelon.
wrong thread mate,but actually you can do this,with the help of another bug:
select riders you want effort on ,then ctrl select your pro as last one .As you can select effort on you,all selected will get same command,same thing for hold position ,after which you can set effort for each rider.hope they don't "fix" this bug as I find this should be in game.
All your issues (& solution ) was in pcm16 already,so don't hold your breath for a fix.
That being said having first rider on infinite relay is generally better as competition take the wheel of your train & drop back.
Edited by sierramike on 01-07-2017 10:14
insert huge pic here to match my ego & have others loading the same crappy images over & over
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| sierramike |
Posted on 30-06-2017 18:52
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Under 23
Posts: 69
Joined: 19-07-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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issue : peleton doesn't chase properly ( also know as 'the team-trains are pulling the pack forward,although victory seems assured for the breakaway' )
pro cyclist mode;single race;v 1.0.3.4
not a small peleton,no team-mates of favorites in breakaway,I'm no favorite& have a team-mate in breakaway:about 10 guys begin to relay at the front of the peleton,but ride 10 km/h less then breakaway from start to finish.
'the pace is slow on this section.It's obvious they are holding back.We should be in for quite a finish' (where have i heared this before,ooh right a thousand times in from commentator) "--eeh you sure ?"
"woot,won the sprint,give me that trophy ...what you mean 11 guys passed here 45 minutes ago ?"
edit:happens over & over on same race.(c1_kampvlaanderen_2015(which is really c1_fayt_2013)) ,but of course :
IF Breakaway(rider).IsPlayer = yes THEN ChaseLikeCrazy(TillDropDead)
Edited by sierramike on 30-06-2017 19:24
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| Oggmeista |
Posted on 02-07-2017 03:56
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Amateur
Posts: 11
Joined: 02-08-2016
PCM$: 200.00
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pff how many bugs?, or was this simply intentional, either way it's wrong
I just noticed another why is no other cyclist cooperating and relaying, i mean the option to relay isn't even coming up and i'm and they are in A group (that's behind (arrears) (atras) (arrete) and i'm desperate for help, already had to drive the peleton (team orders) ((pro cyclist mode) and then i fell x2 actually lol, he got up then fell down again, alredy tired and asked to relay and they just follow, i'm at 70 because we need to catch and nobody helps, I believe now that other riders and the games logic only allow YOU to relay if your in an escape group (ahead) and not if your in an a group, which is absoloute crap, because I notice that whenever a teammate loses touch with the peleton and they drop behind they use the relay function automatically, so why can't you?, this is wrong unless they have a leader, but it's every rider i alrady passed, nobody will relay and were going backwards, also the relaying is wrong anyway, (see my earlier post) honestly when are we going to see proper logic in this game??
cheers
Addendum:
Why is the training schedule not doing as I asked?, I set the schedule then passed some time notice that my tiredness (fatigue) is way higher than the planner predicted.. What's the point of a training schedule planner, it it's just going to be false or chage it as soon as your not checking it continuously?
Edited by Oggmeista on 02-07-2017 13:59
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