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[PT] HC Race Choices
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| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 02-05-2015 13:07
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PT teams get to ride 20 Race Days in 1 HC race band this year.
Details of each band are here: https://pcmdaily.com/forum/viewthread....d_id=38219
This is how many spaces are remaining in each band:
Band 1: 2
Band 2: 6
Band 3: 5
Band 4: 1
Band 5: 7
Band 6: 3
Teams should order all bands from 1 to 6, just as the PCT and CT teams have recently done. Top choices will be allocated first. If more teams put a Band as their top choice than there is space for them, then priority will be awarded in a reverse rankings order from last season. This means that the newly promoted teams will receive first choice (starting with Metinvest) and last year's Top PT teams will receive last choice (ending with Vesuvio). For those teams who do not get their top choice, the process repeats with 2nd choices - and so on.
PM your choices to wackojackohighcliffe
There will be a limit on which PT riders can take part. I have drawn these limits by ensuring there are at least 10 pre-renewals PCT riders who have a higher stat in that discipline. Listed below is the maximum stat that a PT rider can have and take part.
OVL 77
MO 77
HL 77
TT 77
CB 76
SP 79
Edited by SportingNonsense on 02-05-2015 13:09
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| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 02-05-2015 16:04
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For those unsure: Ranking points gained by PT teams in HC races will count towards the PT standings
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| SotD |
Posted on 03-05-2015 12:05
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What are the thoughts behind reducing the stat eligebility so heavily compared to the figures you through up into the air earlier? I know that you wrote something about having 10 riders that are stronger in the PCT division, but a large portion of those 77+ riders from the FA market will surely end up in the PCT.
I really can't see how a 79SPR rider can be competitive in the PCT rankings if his OVL is also below 77. As far as I can see these are the "top" sprinter that PT teams can feature in the PCT:
Bryan Coquard
Sondre Holst Enger
Adrien Petit
Jon Aberasturi
Daniel Vesely
Moreno Moser
Kenji Itami
They are going to be cannonfodder against Ciolek, Avelino, Maksimov, Vanderbiest, Ahlstrand, Stauff and such riders. Clearly there are a few exception riders, who have good backup stats, such as Grosu, Kreder, Van der Lijke and Van der Sande, but most PT sprinters will struggle to get a decent result.
Why not make room for riders such as Luke Rowe, Heinrich Haussler, Andrea Guardini, Leigh Howard, Jens Keukeleire, Greg van Avermaet and Nacer Bouhanni? It's not like they are going to dominate.
As it stands now these are the riders I can send to the PCT races:
Piter Campero 76MO, no backup stats (40-50th best climber in the PCT)
Yuriy Vasyliv 75MO, decent backup stats (50-70th best climber in the PCT)
Tim Dees 76TT, decent backup stats (20-30the best TTer in the PCT)
Clement Koretzky 77HI, decent backup stats (20-25th best HI rider in the PCT)
Laurent Pichon 77HI, no backup stats (25-30th best HI rider in the PCT)
Olivier Le Gac 75HI, no backup stats
Tom David 76COB, decent backup stats
Alexis Gougeard 75HI, no backup stats
Bryan Coquard 79SPR, no backup stats
Gatis Smukulis allround poor
Giampaolo Caruso 74MO, no backup stats (~100the best climber in the PCT)
I don't think any of them will be particularly competitive in the PCT ranks, especially not when taking into account that there are:
40 better climbers
15 better hilly riders
25 better TTers
15 better cobblers
10 better sprinters
All available in the Free Agents pool aswell.
I know that it is the same for everyone, but I think it could do with some final tweaking to make it interesting for the PT teams to really consider which riders to send where. At the moment I don't really have any considerations as all my priority riders can't ride the PCT anyway, so I might aswell put all my strongest available riders into the PCT. If the bars were raised a bit that meant that more riders were available, and thus more thought had to be put into the selection. Also with a slightly higher level it would be starting to get interesting in terms of how to spend the decent riders racedays.
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| CountArach |
Posted on 03-05-2015 12:10
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As I understand it the main purpose is not to allow PT more race to be competitive in, but rather to give them good races in which to train riders and allowing them to be more integrated in the whole calendar. The restrictions on PCT riders in C2 races are very restrictive as well (just without the main stat cap) and serve only those purposes. Not everything has to be about winning, it is just a chance to race against new teams and in some new races for a change.
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| roturn |
Posted on 03-05-2015 12:13
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I am against it.
It should still be PCT priority races as those are the top races for them. And while the riders you mentioned might not be the strongest in the race, they should be stronger than half of PCT teams I think.
So for weaker PCT teams it's already another difficulty.
It's still a nice opportunity for PT teams to give their 2nd row some chances. |
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| SotD |
Posted on 03-05-2015 12:25
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CountArach wrote:
As I understand it the main purpose is not to allow PT more race to be competitive in, but rather to give them good races in which to train riders and allowing them to be more integrated in the whole calendar. The restrictions on PCT riders in C2 races are very restrictive as well (just without the main stat cap) and serve only those purposes. Not everything has to be about winning, it is just a chance to race against new teams and in some new races for a change.
Yeah it isn't about winning either, because my riders won't win with going +1 in each category. I just don't have those types of riders, so it's not to win more races, but more to find the best possible balance. To just fill up races to develop talents, I don't think is the point - I might be mistaken though.
I do think most PT teams will get points in the races, which is of course good, but my post should be read mainly in the last part. The part about creating more difficult choices for us managers to take. That is, from what I can see, the most fun part of the CT and PCT rankings. People seem to enjoy having a lot of difficult options to chose from, and I really would enjoy that aswell. For now it's very very easy for me to pick. There are 3 bands that suit my riders, and all of my riders have easily sufficient racedays to ride it all without influencing their PT racings. So the choice isn't really hard at all... With those small changes I suggest I/others would have a lot more to consider before throwing in a semigood rider for a period of time...
A small side question. Races clash just like any other place, right? The question should be a no-brainer really, but just to be sure.
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| roturn |
Posted on 03-05-2015 12:30
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Yes to your last question |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 22-11-2024 08:59
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| SotD |
Posted on 03-05-2015 12:39
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roturn wrote:
I am against it.
It should still be PCT priority races as those are the top races for them. And while the riders you mentioned might not be the strongest in the race, they should be stronger than half of PCT teams I think.
So for weaker PCT teams it's already another difficulty.
It's still a nice opportunity for PT teams to give their 2nd row some chances.
Absolutely. I'm not against combining the calender, not at all. I love the idea of seeing my 2nd tiers ride for themselves. But I still think there could have been tweaked a bit to make the proces tougher for the PT managers. But that can be tweaked in seasons to come I guess. It's nice to have this part aswell for a PT manager.
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| Smowz |
Posted on 03-05-2015 12:46
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Well I am not a fan of the restrictions - i think they are a bit too punitive and will lead to rubbish PT squads full of XP hunters. it ain't going to be second row riders it is likely to be breakaway hopefuls at best.
I would have preferred for PT teams to have been given a bit more chance to make an impact as is the case when PCT teams race at PT level.
Something along the lines of OV 78, MO 79, HI 78, CO 78, SP 80, TT 79 but maybe they can be raised next year. Will be fun to at least race them this year. Hope I can get some lucky points from somewhere.
But it is an experiment this year, who knows who will buy what this transfer season. We shall see what happens!
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| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 03-05-2015 12:51
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The main objective of having PT teams in HC races is to increase interaction between PT and the rest of the game.
PT teams didnt need more competitive race days. They already have 177 PT race days (compared to PCT who have a total of 140 race days, and CT who have a today of 120) - so these extra 20 are more of a bonus than anything else.
From a PT team perspective yes, higher limits would have increased options for race and rider selections. But that is all it benefits - the PT managers - and they are not the priority for these races.
From a PCT perspective, HC races are the biggest races of the season - and it quite right that PCT teams should be the leading contenders for all races. The abilities of all 30 PCT teams need to be considered too.
PT managers are able to take a privileged and greedy position on a number of aspects of the game, so I've no sympathy with anyone who thinks these limits are unfair! 20 extra RD is surely better than none at all.
Edited by SportingNonsense on 03-05-2015 12:52
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| aidanvn13 |
Posted on 03-05-2015 12:53
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Smowz wrote:
Well I am not a fan of the restrictions - i think they are a bit too punitive and will lead to rubbish PT squads full of XP hunters. it ain't going to be second row riders it is likely to be breakaway hopefuls at best.
I would have preferred for PT teams to have been given a bit more chance to make an impact as is the case when PCT teams race at PT level.
Something along the lines of OV 78, MO 79, HI 78, CO 78, SP 80, TT 79 but maybe they can be raised next year. Will be fun to at least race them this year. Hope I can get some lucky points from somewhere.
But it is an experiment this year, who knows who will buy what this transfer season. We shall see what happens!
I completely understand your point, but to be honest it is the same for PCT teams competing in CT (C2) races. It is difficult for a PCT team to field a team with a rider that is capable of top 10 places in stage races. Winning or podiuming a C2 classic is tremendously unlikely unless a bit of luck is factored in. For me the PT rider restrictions in HC are more or less on par with PCT rider restrictions in C2.
Edited by aidanvn13 on 03-05-2015 12:54
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| Smowz |
Posted on 03-05-2015 13:06
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@aidan: Not the same - PCT have no need to race any C2 races.
But SN's point about it being a bonus races is the way I see it, a bit like Atlantius' weird minority guys race. A bit of fun for the bottom rung guys in a team.
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 04-05-2015 06:52
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We choose first, nice. 
I have a decent idea about which band to choose, but will think about it today a bit more and send the PM after.
Hoffman-Grosu duo is looking forward to revive some old PCT rivalries. 
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| Mhaley45 |
Posted on 04-05-2015 19:04
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If the PT team entering HC races will have their earned HC points count in the standings, will the PCT teams racing in PT races as Wildcards have the points earned in the PT count for the PCT standings?
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Team Manager of AMEX - Navigon
Editor of the Cobbler
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| FroomeDog99 |
Posted on 04-05-2015 19:08
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Grand Tour Specialist
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Mhaley45 wrote:
If the PT team entering HC races will have their earned HC points count in the standings, will the PCT teams racing in PT races as Wildcards have the points earned in the PT count for the PCT standings?
No, as entering PT races is optional for PCT teams but entering HC races is compulsory for PT teams. |
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| Alakagom |
Posted on 04-05-2015 19:09
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Mhaley45 wrote:
If the PT team entering HC races will have their earned HC points count in the standings, will the PCT teams racing in PT races as Wildcards have the points earned in the PT count for the PCT standings?
No. Wildcards are voluntary. You race them if you want to.
PT must race their chosen HC band hence the points count.
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| Scorchio |
Posted on 04-05-2015 19:10
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I would have thought that was different - all the PT teams get 20 RD's each, whereas there is not an even distribution of PT races available for PCT teams - some might not choose wildcards and therefore don't do any PT. So I would expect the answer will be the same as last year - no!
Edit: Aha, a rare occurrence of the double Zabel'd! 
Edited by Scorchio on 04-05-2015 19:12
Manager of ISA - Hexacta in the MG |
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| sammyt93 |
Posted on 04-05-2015 19:13
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using SN's own words:
SportingNonsense wrote:
Points scored by PCT teams in PT races does not count towards the PCT standings, and the races do not cost any race days. Race clash rules do apply though.
Priority for Grand Tour wildcards goes to teams who have not previously ridden a GT.
Link to thread where it's stated
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| Mhaley45 |
Posted on 04-05-2015 19:19
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That makes sense that's for the quick responses.
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Editor of the Cobbler
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| Scorchio |
Posted on 04-05-2015 19:30
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Of topic, but you planning any new editions of 'The Cobbler' for the new season Mhaley - I enjoyed reading a lot last year, even if cobbles aren't Nutresa's thing!
Manager of ISA - Hexacta in the MG |
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