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Contador discussion
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| Ybodonk |
Posted on 09-04-2014 12:06
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Hi guys.
I was one of the phew repeatedly defending Contador last year (look through posts), and stating that I was sure he would be back. Several of the generals of the forum were sure that he could get even worse.
I have read that Saxo applies "Sky's training methods". Taking that into consideration, still several critics argued that Contador on more dope could not cope with the elite from 2013.
I know its early, and it has not been in the GT's he has beaten his rival. But it is a victory for the excitement of cycling.
So, do we need to look differently on when riders develop 20's--> peaks end 20's--> stagnate--> and then starts to decrease in form, fatigue and capabilities (30s) ?
Do we have some interesting pointers and arguments out there for Contadors rise back to the top ? |
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| Schleck96 |
Posted on 09-04-2014 12:14
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I expect Aquarius to come here. |
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| weirdskyfan64 |
Posted on 09-04-2014 12:15
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Well, Riis replaced Rogers with Kreuziger. That was always going to be a start.
Disclaimer- Most of my posts are me thinking aloud. And most of what I think is rubbish.
Winner of a FIFA Prediction Fair Play Award (a phrase becoming increasingly ironic)
"... Because he (me) has a sound tactical mind in general..." jandal7, at 9:30 am GMT on 12th May 2016
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| Ybodonk |
Posted on 09-04-2014 12:16
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Schleck96 wrote:
I expect Aquarius to come here.
Haha nice one. Aquarius knows hes my favourite member :b |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 25-11-2024 07:36
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| Ybodonk |
Posted on 09-04-2014 12:18
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weirdskyfan64 wrote:
Well, Riis replaced Rogers with Kreuziger. That was always going to be a start.
What do you mean replaced? Kreuziger was almost by Contadors side the entire 2013 season. Or do you mean in training? |
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| weirdskyfan64 |
Posted on 09-04-2014 12:22
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Ybodonk wrote:
weirdskyfan64 wrote:
Well, Riis replaced Rogers with Kreuziger. That was always going to be a start.
What do you mean replaced? Kreuziger was almost by Contadors side the entire 2013 season. Or do you mean in training?
The fairly good leader Kreuziger wasn't turning up. They were sending him to classics and had Rogers there instead.
Disclaimer- Most of my posts are me thinking aloud. And most of what I think is rubbish.
Winner of a FIFA Prediction Fair Play Award (a phrase becoming increasingly ironic)
"... Because he (me) has a sound tactical mind in general..." jandal7, at 9:30 am GMT on 12th May 2016
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| Ybodonk |
Posted on 09-04-2014 12:28
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weirdskyfan64 wrote:
Ybodonk wrote:
weirdskyfan64 wrote:
Well, Riis replaced Rogers with Kreuziger. That was always going to be a start.
What do you mean replaced? Kreuziger was almost by Contadors side the entire 2013 season. Or do you mean in training?
The fairly good leader Kreuziger wasn't turning up. They were sending him to classics and had Rogers there instead.
Or in that term of perspective, I can agree with you. It is going to be interesting to see what will happen in TDF and hopefully Vuelta also.
Crossing my fingers, that AC wont be burned out due to, too many races |
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| alexkr00 |
Posted on 09-04-2014 12:30
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What? Rogers better than Kreuziger?! He's Sky results say otherwise...
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| Ybodonk |
Posted on 09-04-2014 12:33
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alexkr00 wrote:
What? Rogers better than Kreuziger?! He's Sky results say otherwise...
Everyone entering Sky becomes some of the best GT racers and domestiques. Leaving Sky they go back to average or a little above average, but for some reason never as good again  |
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| bigggassi |
Posted on 09-04-2014 12:36
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Ybodonk wrote:
So, do we need to look differently on when riders develop 20's--> peaks end 20's--> stagnate--> and then starts to decrease in form, fatigue and capabilities (30s) ?
Do we have some interesting pointers and arguments out there for Contadors rise back to the top ?
Contador is just completely back on the program again, if you ask me. Sky insight and with Tinkov running the show now makes it possible. Winning at all costs, this was always Tinkovs' slogan.
No doubt, he surely had a better winter, is much more in form and maybe trained better. But in the end it all comes to the right (dope)-prorgam. I really think they were doing things more conservative last year. But once Froome was going full retard at the Ventoux, they stepped things up again.
Btw, with 31 of age he should be capable of doing so anyway. With Horner winning the Vuelta there's no such thing like decreasing with age. 
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| MrDuck |
Posted on 09-04-2014 12:38
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its still early in the season and with the 3 big tours yet to come we have to see if alberto can keep this up
He is in great form though and i really hope this will be the comeback of contador after a bit dissapointing 2013 |
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| coutas98 |
Posted on 09-04-2014 12:39
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I believe Contador has never lost his edge, I think that the doping conviction has affected him psychologically during last year. |
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| Shonak |
Posted on 09-04-2014 12:40
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People were way too quick to judge Contador on "bad" year, a guy that won a Grand Tour merely weeks after he came back to the sport. He is/was the most successful, active stage racer, and, like I said in the 2014 Prediction thread, I'm pretty sure he will win the Tour. Or at least, I'm hoping for it a lot. 
In any case, there is no "rise of Contador back to the top" because he was always top.
So, do we need to look differently on when riders develop 20's--> peaks end 20's--> stagnate--> and then starts to decrease in form, fatigue and capabilities (30s) ?
Riders peak of course differently, prime example Purito or... jeez, Horner. Cancellara also seemingly appears stronger here and there if you ask me. There are lot of other examples that can be used against it though. I suppose truly great riders will always be great though, one "bad" year isn't gonna change a damn thing about it.
Edited by Shonak on 09-04-2014 12:40
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
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| Wilier |
Posted on 09-04-2014 13:05
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It would be both funny and sad to see Contador and Froome duke it out, full retard, at the Tour this year.
Funny because they don't know/care how obvious it is.
Sad because this is still possible in this day and age. |
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| Stromeon |
Posted on 09-04-2014 13:14
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Classics Specialist
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I agree with some here, in that people are way too quick to write people like Contador off after a relatively poor season. Because of the suspicious nature of the sport, people are often quick to point towards drugs/lack of drugs as an explanation. While I agree that it is right to be naturally sceptical about sudden dips in form and sudden peaks in form; in other sports, such as cricket (sorry you continental types I know I'm talking a foreign language here ) for instance, which are not associated with drugs in quite the way that cycling is, you see many people have sudden resurgences in their career or complete psychological breakdowns, and these are just taken in as part of the sport. Things change in people's lives, and so it is perhaps wrong to jump to a conclusion immediately that Contador's performance this year is all down to what he may be taking. I'm not saying that's incorrect, there's a real possibility that it could indeed be true and is certainly a valid explanation, it's just that some people have got 2 and are trying to find two numbers to add to it, rather than starting from the bottom and adding 1 and 1 to get two (to take a slight ill-explained twist on a saying - effectively I'm what I'm trying to say is that instead of immediately pointing the finger and saying 'drugs' and then afterwards trying to find reasons and evidence that support that; one should instead look for clues and evidence that may take them towards that conclusion, completing the process in reverse).
Long wall of text looks like a rant so I'll put a random smiley here to make sure it's clear it's not a rant.
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| Ybodonk |
Posted on 09-04-2014 13:22
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Domestique
Posts: 510
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bigggassi wrote:
Ybodonk wrote:
So, do we need to look differently on when riders develop 20's--> peaks end 20's--> stagnate--> and then starts to decrease in form, fatigue and capabilities (30s) ?
Do we have some interesting pointers and arguments out there for Contadors rise back to the top ?
Contador is just completely back on the program again, if you ask me. Sky insight and with Tinkov running the show now makes it possible. Winning at all costs, this was always Tinkovs' slogan.
No doubt, he surely had a better winter, is much more in form and maybe trained better. But in the end it all comes to the right (dope)-prorgam. I really think they were doing things more conservative last year. But once Froome was going full retard at the Ventoux, they stepped things up again.
Btw, with 31 of age he should be capable of doing so anyway. With Horner winning the Vuelta there's no such thing like decreasing with age.
I completely agree with you on this post. And Tinkov will win by every costs (also illegal) . The interesting thing here, is after last years TDF. I argued that with the right dope etc, AC would be up there again. However many well articulated arguments, kept stating that it was not possible for him to get back to the top. It is very nice to see AC again in this form.
And im almost 100percent sure, that the odds are evened out now. It looks more close, maybe due to the same "program and marginal gains".
Good for cycling, bad for doping crusadors ! |
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| superider2010 |
Posted on 09-04-2014 13:26
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he does more training and less sex...sexy bastard
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| Ybodonk |
Posted on 09-04-2014 13:27
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Domestique
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Shonak wrote:
People were way too quick to judge Contador on "bad" year, a guy that won a Grand Tour merely weeks after he came back to the sport. He is/was the most successful, active stage racer, and, like I said in the 2014 Prediction thread, I'm pretty sure he will win the Tour. Or at least, I'm hoping for it a lot.
In any case, there is no "rise of Contador back to the top" because he was always top.
So, do we need to look differently on when riders develop 20's--> peaks end 20's--> stagnate--> and then starts to decrease in form, fatigue and capabilities (30s) ?
Riders peak of course differently, prime example Purito or... jeez, Horner. Cancellara also seemingly appears stronger here and there if you ask me. There are lot of other examples that can be used against it though. I suppose truly great riders will always be great though, one "bad" year isn't gonna change a damn thing about it.
I am with you on this one. It is a shame that im too lazy to find all the scientific and psyhiological arguments made last year after the TDF, judging and concluding AC out.
When I last year said this about late peaks and primes, the evidence showed the opposite. Hence, a GT winner was in avg 28 or something like that. And it was actually more an exception being a GT winner in mid 30s.
Well it is nice to see that many of the big names are performing spectaculary even though they are well above 30s.
Purito and Valverde seems to get better every year, just adding that little marginal gain each year. |
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 09-04-2014 13:31
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World Champion
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Wilier wrote:
It would be both funny and sad to see Contador and Froome duke it out, full retard, at the Tour this year.
Funny because they don't know/care how obvious it is.
Sad because this is still possible in this day and age.
This, we will see bigger dope show than with Lance and Ullrich, complete full retard mode expected. I am only sad that Kreuziger is part of this, but i lost all my illusions about Roman already with teams he rides for and all that Ferrari stuff known about him.
Yes, i evolved into complete cynist watching the dopeshow.
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 09-04-2014 13:33
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Ybodonk wrote:
Shonak wrote:
People were way too quick to judge Contador on "bad" year, a guy that won a Grand Tour merely weeks after he came back to the sport. He is/was the most successful, active stage racer, and, like I said in the 2014 Prediction thread, I'm pretty sure he will win the Tour. Or at least, I'm hoping for it a lot.
In any case, there is no "rise of Contador back to the top" because he was always top.
So, do we need to look differently on when riders develop 20's--> peaks end 20's--> stagnate--> and then starts to decrease in form, fatigue and capabilities (30s) ?
Riders peak of course differently, prime example Purito or... jeez, Horner. Cancellara also seemingly appears stronger here and there if you ask me. There are lot of other examples that can be used against it though. I suppose truly great riders will always be great though, one "bad" year isn't gonna change a damn thing about it.
I am with you on this one. It is a shame that im too lazy to find all the scientific and psyhiological arguments made last year after the TDF, judging and concluding AC out.
When I last year said this about late peaks and primes, the evidence showed the opposite. Hence, a GT winner was in avg 28 or something like that. And it was actually more an exception being a GT winner in mid 30s.
Well it is nice to see that many of the big names are performing spectaculary even though they are well above 30s.
Purito and Valverde seems to get better every year, just adding that little marginal gain each year.
Well, you somehow forgot that Contador started his "peak" and awesomness much younger than for example Purito. Stage racer cannot be super awesome from 20 years of age till 35, at least not clean...
Edited by Avin Wargunnson on 09-04-2014 13:33
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