It seems that skipping the TDF was planned by Nibali and the team. The reason, to put a team together that works well to go after SKY and Froome in 2014. This is from Veleo News.
TARRAGONA, Spain (VN) — Vincenzo Nibali (Astana) was looking cool as a cucumber on the post-stage podium Thursday after a fairly routine sprint stage that opened the second half of the Vuelta a España.
Nibali’s focus is on the here and now. With the red leader’s jersey he captured following his strong time trial Wednesday, the Italian is poised to win his second grand tour of the year.
And with the world championships waiting on a climber-friendly course on home roads, Nibali could make history over the next few weeks.
Yet behind the scenes, Astana and Nibali are already plotting for 2014. There is one prize that has so far eluded the prolific and promising Italian: the Tour de France.
And this Vuelta is serving as a dress rehearsal for what is sure to be a major showdown between Nibali and Astana on one side, and Chris Froome and Sky on the other.
“This Vuelta is a bit of an experiment for next year’s Tour de France,” Astana sport director Giuseppe Martinelli told VeloNews.
“With a lot of these riders here, Grivko, Brajkovic, Tanel, Fuglsang, it’s a good group that work together. We can gain experience at this Vuelta for next year’s Tour.”
Sky versus Astana. Froome versus Nibali. That’s how the 2014 Tour de France is going to shape up. Forget Alberto Contador. The lone rider and team that truly worry Sky are Nibali and Astana.
In 2012, Nibali was the only rider who dared to challenge the Sky stranglehold from eventual winner Sir Bradley Wiggins and Froome. Nibali was the only rider with the courage, or who had the legs, to attack. With Nibali skipping the Tour this year to focus first on the Giro, which he won with relative ease, and then the Vuelta-worlds double, Froome found himself a step above everyone else at the Tour.
Tour rookie Nairo Quintana (Movistar) made a courageous debut, winning a stage, the king of the mountains jersey, and the white jersey, but he never truly presented a threat to Froome. In fact, their interests were often connected at the belt, as Sky and Movistar worked together to eliminate the Contador threat.
For next year, Nibali is all but sure to focus solely on the Tour. He will likely skip defending his Giro pink jersey to make an all-out run for the yellow jersey.
Martinelli, one of the wisest directors in the business, believes Nibali can go far.
“To beat Froome, I do not know if it’s possible, but we are going to try,” Martinelli continued. “We will talk about the Tour over the winter, but that will be the top goal, without a doubt.”
Astana is slowly building a core group of riders to support Nibali in next year’s Tour. Most of them are in this Vuelta. They started off like rockers, winning the team time trial, and then keeping Nibali out of trouble until the time trial.
“The victory in the team time trial was not a surprise, because it’s the first time we have Fuglsang, Brajkovic, and Nibali on the same team. We have a strong team here at the Vuelta,” Martinelli continued. “For us, the goal is Madrid. We want to do well in this Vuelta.”
Nibali comes to this Vuelta with almost no pressure, but with every possibility of winning his second grand tour of the season.
Not only was Nibali getting kisses from the podium girls as the Vuelta’s race leader, but Astana is also leading the team classification, a category that means almost nothing except to the teams that loves to show it off to sponsors and collect UCI points.
With the red leader’s jersey on his shoulders, he’s poised to become the first rider since Contador to win two grand tours in one season. Contador did it in 2008, winning the Giro and Vuelta, when ASO kept, curiously enough, Astana out of that year’s Tour.
The vibe around the Astana bus is “tranquilo.” Almost no Spanish media are even paying attention. They tend to float around the Movistar, Katusha, and Euskaltel-Euskadi buses. A fresh crew of Italian media showed up this week, including RAI, but it’s almost as if Nibali is on a Spanish holiday.
That’s not to say Nibali isn’t taking things seriously. Those close to him say he’s the most ambitious Italian rider in a generation, and wants nothing less than to become the first Italian to win the Tour since Marco Pantani in 1998.
Martinelli, who was there with Pantani for the good, bad, and the ugly during the “Pirate’s” run, said that Nibali is a rider who has the head and motor to go far.
“I think we will see a great Nibali in the final week of the Vuelta. We will see a big performance,” Martinelli continued. “Nibali is a champion. And he’s looking at the worlds, too, so that’s an important goal as well.”
Whether NIbali can win this Vuelta, and then the rainbow, and later go on to challenge the Froome-Sky juggernaut at the Tour next summer, well, those are fighting words.
If there’s anyone in the peloton with momentum on his side, it’s Nibali. The Spanish armada, which included Contador, is aging and slowing down.
Riders like Quintana, Andrew Talansky (Garmin-Sharp), and Tejay van Garderen (BMC Racing) are still another Tour or two away from truly being overall contenders.
Nibali is poised to emerge as Froome’s most dangerous rival next year.
“If Nibali can win this Vuelta, then we’ll turn our attention to the Tour,” Martinelli said. “To beat Froome is a big challenge, but Nibali is also a big champion.”
And the groundwork of that assault is being laid during this Vuelta. The riders, the support staff, and Nibali, they’re all working together, all gaining confidence in one another. In Nibali’s first season with Astana, he’s already won the Giro, and he’s poised to win the Vuelta.
And next year, Astana is going to be swinging for the fences.
This Vuelta is an important litmus test. So far, everything is coming up red.
No chance. Quintana is the only one who can stop Froome in the near future, and he'll need a extremely climbers biased (even more than this year!) route.
Im going with unsure. Porte and Froome along with the rest of SKY (barring illness or injury) looks strong and next year...they will have better chemistry as a team. But Astana looks good this year, and Contador is starting (to me) to lose his abilities in some areas. His climbing is not as strong as 2yrs ago and his TT ability has fallen off a bit.
kumazan wrote:
No chance. Quintana is the only one who can stop Froome in the near future, and he'll need a extremely climbers biased (even more than this year!) route.
You might be right. But I feel Quintana is 2-3yrs away from a solid shot to win the TDF. He dosent yet have the abilities of a rider like Froome...but he should soon.
Edited by Matrix on 08-09-2013 23:10
For example if all mountain stages are ridden at 30° celcius, don't see anybody coming close to Froome. If its 12° and heavy rains, there shouldn't be much difference between Froome-Nibali/Quintana
If Nibali cannot beat a doped Horner....he cannot beat a doped Froome.
baseballlover312, 06-03-14 : "Nuke Moscow...Don't worry Russia, we've got plenty of love to go around your cities"
Sarah Palin, 08-03-14 (CPAC, on Russian aggression) : "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a nuke is a good guy with a nuke"
Big thanks to jdog for making this AMAZING userbar!
547984 wrote:
If Nibali cannot beat a doped Horner....he cannot beat a doped Froome.
Lets just somewhat clear this one up. Go look on Veleos site, the odds Froome doped are very slim. The new testing protocols are to a point that to dope...you would be paying millions a rider. EPO can now be detected and HGH, test, blood transfusions...again are checked for. They even check now for needle marks, if they find anything odd...you better pray a doctor has very hard evidence (not Armstrong type script) for whatever it is. Think about what Contador tested positive for. The amount was not even a full poco gram(sp)...and it showed up.
To dope now, you would beed to be on something that is untraceable. Im a personal trainer, I train bodybuilders and regular people. I have asked many high level (I know they arent clean) what a cyclist could take now that wouldnt show in a test of any type. The answer is always the same...they would have to take something that cost around 10mil USD per rider. I really dont see any cycling team investing 10mil for 5 riders atleast (50mil for a race, 5 riders sounds good seeing they need climbing helpers).
Many things now are legal, and can be purchased at a good supplement store. If a rider uses it...and its not banned by any body covering cycling, its legal. You can buy epo type items over the counter. If no ingredient of the supplement is banned...your not doping.
Now, am I saying the whole pelaton is clean, NO. But, with the biological passport, increased testing with better equitment than ever...it may slip past 1 time, but not a full 3 weeks. However look at the article on Veleo, it notes riders who skated past 1 test period, but got hit on the next. Froome maynot be fully clean, but check his stats and bio information...not much changed. The only thing he can do now he couldnt do 4 years ago is maintain a high power output for longer periods. And he also was ill, which messed with his results till about mid 2010, and still is treated for it as late a Jan 2013.
Gather the vital info, read it and then make your claim. Dont take a guess on speculation due to not liking Froome, SKY or other riders more. I didnt take Froomes word on doping. I read up on it, and as LeMond said "It seems Froome could well be clean. His information is very telling and appears to be realistic/real. He appears to be clean."
That from the same man that said Lance was guilty after his 2nd win. And dont forget, the times on climbs this year compared to say 98 (Marcos win) where 3+ min slower.
With the advancement of doping control...dope also advances. I'm just going to leave it at that.
baseballlover312, 06-03-14 : "Nuke Moscow...Don't worry Russia, we've got plenty of love to go around your cities"
Sarah Palin, 08-03-14 (CPAC, on Russian aggression) : "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a nuke is a good guy with a nuke"
Big thanks to jdog for making this AMAZING userbar!
The route would have to be really advantageous, Nibali has improved his TT but still nowhere on the level of Froome.
baseballlover312, 06-03-14 : "Nuke Moscow...Don't worry Russia, we've got plenty of love to go around your cities"
Sarah Palin, 08-03-14 (CPAC, on Russian aggression) : "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a nuke is a good guy with a nuke"
Big thanks to jdog for making this AMAZING userbar!
547984 wrote:
With the advancement of doping control...dope also advances. I'm just going to leave it at that.
Correct. But from experience I am well aware of the cash that would need to be spent to dope and not pop a positive now as compared to the Armstrong days.
However, you miss the point. Froome has had issues with his health. Now, with it under control...who is to say he cant out ride most anyone? Altitude, no issue...as with Columbians and such. He is use to it. Eddy, Benard and LeMond (far as anyone knows) where clean. And look what the 1st two names did. 5 TDF wins, and if not mistaken minus the very old days (1930's-50's) Eddy has the biggest margin of victory in a TDF. We know a special rider comes along now and then that with training and a bit of luck beats anyone every day in any race. So, could Froome be one of the few? We dont know. Could he dope on an ultra rare, and costly substance...we dont know.
For the same of cycling lets hope he is clean. And never is found to have doped. Another TDF winner showing up as a doper after Lance and many of that era (plus Contador recently and Frank)...it would be very bad for cycling as we know it.
As of nao cycling has been tarnished w/ these doping scandals. Yet, teams doesn't learn from past mistakes. Sometimes I wonder is it that really important to win a stage? A race? I guess tv airtime is a big plus for the sponsors nao. I know that winning gives you might and all. Just saying.
vismitananda wrote:
As of nao cycling has been tarnished w/ these doping scandals. Yet, teams doesn't learn from past mistakes. Sometimes I wonder is it that really important to win a stage? A race? I guess tv airtime is a big plus for the sponsors nao. I know that winning gives you might and all. Just saying.
Yes, but another scandle like Armstrong will drive cycling down. I use to race BMX in my teens & 20's. And in the mid 90's BMX vanished, it was an underground thing. People still rode, but TV and such didnt exist. Too many riders tied to drugs, acting like idiots destroying property...that BMX was buried.
In about 2002, BMX came back due in large part to the Xgames. A special event that showed not everyone on a BMX bike should be frowned at. BMX racing didnt return till it was an Olympic sport, still it is far from how it was.
Another scandle like Armstrong and like BMX only the true die hard fans will watch it. TV wont air full races, just highlights on a 1-2hr show at the end. Due to it being tied with illegal drugs. Sure, Toyota can pay a sponsor like NBC or CBS alot of money. But they are family networks, and nomatter how much someone can pay. They wont want constant drugs mentioned on a world wide network. They will grab highlights and toss them to editors to make a nice "family show" of what happened.
If you dont think it can happen. In the US we use to get all American races and all 3 grand tours on TV...free. Now we get the Tour of California, Tour of Colorado and TDF. Past that, if your lucky you may stumble onto a crit at 2-5am...but who is awake?
To have the Giro, we have to have a dish in this area. My local provider dosent offer one, so I only can watch the TDF of the GTs. To watch the Giro, you have to have Direct TV with dish, and pay extra for a sports bundle. And even then, it isnt full stages...mainly highlights. All this started when they started after Lance...and more scandle will (in the US atleast) likely cause more drop off on coverage.
547984 wrote:
With the advancement of doping control...dope also advances. I'm just going to leave it at that.
Correct. But from experience I am well aware of the cash that would need to be spent to dope and not pop a positive now as compared to the Armstrong days.
However, you miss the point. Froome has had issues with his health. Now, with it under control...who is to say he cant out ride most anyone? Altitude, no issue...as with Columbians and such. He is use to it. Eddy, Benard and LeMond (far as anyone knows) where clean. And look what the 1st two names did. 5 TDF wins, and if not mistaken minus the very old days (1930's-50's) Eddy has the biggest margin of victory in a TDF. We know a special rider comes along now and then that with training and a bit of luck beats anyone every day in any race. So, could Froome be one of the few? We dont know. Could he dope on an ultra rare, and costly substance...we dont know.
For the same of cycling lets hope he is clean. And never is found to have doped. Another TDF winner showing up as a doper after Lance and many of that era (plus Contador recently and Frank)...it would be very bad for cycling as we know it.
Some basic research online will show you Eddy wasn't clean, talented yes but also full of amphetamines, I also would say Hinault would fall into that aswell but I can't be sure. The dopers are always a step ahead of the testers and it is not as expensive as you keep claiming. Froomes illness keeps getting brought up and its just like the other stories out there that just come across as rubbish to me.
Hells 500 Crew and 6 x Everester
Don Rd Launching Place
Melbourne Hill Rd Warrandyte
Colby Drive Belgrave South
William Rd The Patch
David Hill Rd Monbulk
Lakeside Drive Emerald https://www.everesting.cc/hall-of-fame/
547984 wrote:
With the advancement of doping control...dope also advances. I'm just going to leave it at that.
Correct. But from experience I am well aware of the cash that would need to be spent to dope and not pop a positive now as compared to the Armstrong days.
However, you miss the point. Froome has had issues with his health. Now, with it under control...who is to say he cant out ride most anyone? Altitude, no issue...as with Columbians and such. He is use to it. Eddy, Benard and LeMond (far as anyone knows) where clean. And look what the 1st two names did. 5 TDF wins, and if not mistaken minus the very old days (1930's-50's) Eddy has the biggest margin of victory in a TDF. We know a special rider comes along now and then that with training and a bit of luck beats anyone every day in any race. So, could Froome be one of the few? We dont know. Could he dope on an ultra rare, and costly substance...we dont know.
For the same of cycling lets hope he is clean. And never is found to have doped. Another TDF winner showing up as a doper after Lance and many of that era (plus Contador recently and Frank)...it would be very bad for cycling as we know it.
What? Eddie and Bernard were clean? Lol
You are incredibly naive, judging from your posts about Froome.
I voted yes.
I think all depends on route and how preparation and training goes. Also Quintana will be very strong, it will be 3 horse battle. I hope TdF puts some technical descents, etc.
But remember this year Nibali is the only guy to beat Froome in GC, in Tirreno.
Also about Ventoux style acceleration, there is nothing to suggest that Nibali, Quintana will not try to practice that in training. I think those acceleration by Froome are his awkward way of attacking. Quintana was same level as Froome this TdF in mountains. Quintana lost in TT, and Movistar's stupid strategy to attack way out on AX3 Domain and Ventoux. Remember Purito and Quintana dropped Froome on Alp D'Huez and Mont Semnoz.
Also remember this was Froome's 1st GT win. He has been beaten by Cobo in 2011 Vuelta, Purito/Contador/Valverde in 2012 Vuelta and Wiggins in TdF 2012. And Nibali has experience of having won 2 GT (may be 3 after this one)
Also Nibali will be more motivated because he has not won TdF yet. We have seen riders losing focus after winning TdF.
in the last week of Tour de France, Froome has dropped his form...Nibali is more regular and is very brave...in the second stage of the Pyrenees Nibali would attack Froome...not as Valverde and Quintana...
It's dependant of multiple factors.
For an example temperature,
Spilak23 wrote:
For example if all mountain stages are ridden at 30° celcius, don't see anybody coming close to Froome. If its 12° and heavy rains, there shouldn't be much difference between Froome-Nibali/Quintana
Honestly in this case i think that Quintana and Nibali are stronger with lower temerature than Froome
But also from Sky and the other team: in this Tdf Sky wasn't perfect and Froome was alone in some stages but they didn't attack him at all. Only Contador did it.
