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Tirreno - Adriatico 2013
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 04-03-2013 19:44
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Kalach wrote:
issoisso wrote:
Not the best, but depends on form.
But honestly, he's 36, it's unlikely he can ever go back to his best, he's almost certainly on the downward slope and getting worse every year.
Although the same likely applies to Contador
Hmm I think it doesnt matter that he is 36. I would say he still has capabilities to win however in climbing he is not equal to Contador or Froome. Anyway Armstrong in his 37 ended third in TDF. He declared that in 2009 he had not been cheating. But yeaaaah, who knows 
I think there's nearly too much evidence to know that. Erm...
About Evans, and other old riders : with age they're managing more easily power on long intervals, but they're losing their ability on very short ones (those who imply explosivity). So he'll probably suffer when it will come to answering attacks and might have to let go. Climbs in Tirenno are not long enough for him to gain any substantial advantage.
Now that's only true relative to himself (if that makes sense), his ability to perform relatively to others of course depends on the level of the opposition.
My two cents. 
issoisso, please say you don't mean Contador has reached the age of old. Pretty please.  |
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 05-03-2013 06:44
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Wanna hear someting funny? Sagan said after Strade Binachi he is still partly ill and have caugh and he hopes to get in better state in time for big targets Tirreno and MSR. It did not seem like he is that bad with 1st and 2nd during his two return races.
Edited by Avin Wargunnson on 05-03-2013 06:46
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| sutty68 |
Posted on 05-03-2013 10:20
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If he gets a first and second whilst ill then god help the rest of the peleton when he has recovered  |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 05-03-2013 17:41
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Aquarius wrote:
you don't mean Contador has reached the age of old. Pretty please.
It's not about being old.
The earlier you become a top rider, the earlier you start to decline. That's always the case. Look at Cunego
For example, Sagan is amazing for a 23 year old, but it's unlikely he'll be a great rider by age 31. Contador is likely experiencing decline already. It's just the way it is. Petacchi was still top at 35 because he didn't turn into a top sprinter until age 29 or so. And so on, etc. etc.
Heck, let's go back to the best of all time. Merckx was world champion at 22. Before he was 30 he was finished. At 31 he retired, unable to get results.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| Spilak23 |
Posted on 05-03-2013 17:42
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issoisso wrote:
Aquarius wrote:
you don't mean Contador has reached the age of old. Pretty please.
It's not about being old.
The earlier you become a top rider, the earlier you start to decline. That's always the case. Look at Cunego
For example, Sagan is amazing for a 23 year old, but it's unlikely he'll be a great rider by age 31. Contador is likely experiencing decline already. It's just the way it is. Petacchi was still top at 35 because he didn't turn into a top sprinter until age 29 or so. And so on, etc. etc.
Heck, let's go back to the best of all time. Merckx was world champion at 22. Before he was 30 he was finished. At 31 he retired, unable to get results.
Kloden won Paris-Nice 13 years ago and is still at quite a high level.
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| jsh312mufc |
Posted on 05-03-2013 17:45
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Spilak23 wrote:
issoisso wrote:
Aquarius wrote:
you don't mean Contador has reached the age of old. Pretty please.
It's not about being old.
The earlier you become a top rider, the earlier you start to decline. That's always the case. Look at Cunego
For example, Sagan is amazing for a 23 year old, but it's unlikely he'll be a great rider by age 31. Contador is likely experiencing decline already. It's just the way it is. Petacchi was still top at 35 because he didn't turn into a top sprinter until age 29 or so. And so on, etc. etc.
Heck, let's go back to the best of all time. Merckx was world champion at 22. Before he was 30 he was finished. At 31 he retired, unable to get results.
Kloden won Paris-Nice 13 years ago and is still at quite a high level.
because Kloden records really big results |
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| issoisso |
Posted on 05-03-2013 17:51
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Spilak23 wrote:
issoisso wrote:
Aquarius wrote:
you don't mean Contador has reached the age of old. Pretty please.
It's not about being old.
The earlier you become a top rider, the earlier you start to decline. That's always the case. Look at Cunego
For example, Sagan is amazing for a 23 year old, but it's unlikely he'll be a great rider by age 31. Contador is likely experiencing decline already. It's just the way it is. Petacchi was still top at 35 because he didn't turn into a top sprinter until age 29 or so. And so on, etc. etc.
Heck, let's go back to the best of all time. Merckx was world champion at 22. Before he was 30 he was finished. At 31 he retired, unable to get results.
Kloden won Paris-Nice 13 years ago and is still at quite a high level.
You can't seriously be arguing that Klöden hasn't declined.
You really think he's still at the level required to finish 2nd in the Tour de France ahead of a peak Ullrich, Basso, etc?
Edited by issoisso on 05-03-2013 17:51
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| ruben |
Posted on 05-03-2013 17:57
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well that explains why dutch riders never break through, they all are top when they are 18 so by the time they are 25/26 they are finished  |
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| Metriz- |
Posted on 05-03-2013 18:07
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Domestique
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issoisso wrote:
Aquarius wrote:
you don't mean Contador has reached the age of old. Pretty please.
It's not about being old.
The earlier you become a top rider, the earlier you start to decline. That's always the case. Look at Cunego
For example, Sagan is amazing for a 23 year old, but it's unlikely he'll be a great rider by age 31. Contador is likely experiencing decline already. It's just the way it is. Petacchi was still top at 35 because he didn't turn into a top sprinter until age 29 or so. And so on, etc. etc.
Heck, let's go back to the best of all time. Merckx was world champion at 22. Before he was 30 he was finished. At 31 he retired, unable to get results. Contador did win the last Grand Tour he entered. Although he was not as dominant as earlier, I think it is to early to say if he has already declined or if it was just the lack of race days because of the ban.
You are right about young stars declining early, but there are exceptions like Boonen, Freire and Valverde. |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 29-11-2024 01:09
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| issoisso |
Posted on 05-03-2013 19:47
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Even they aren't full exceptions.
Boonen has lost his sprint, and other than one season working with the magical Ibarguren he's been nothing like his former self since 2009.
Valverde isn't the rider he once was. 2005 Tour, even 2006 Vuelta.
Freire prolonged his career due to not racing nearly as much as others. It's something many have done. Armstrong being the main example.
Edited by issoisso on 05-03-2013 19:49
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| fosforgasXIII |
Posted on 05-03-2013 19:55
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Contador will still be there for two more years at least. |
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| Spilak23 |
Posted on 05-03-2013 20:01
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issoisso wrote:
Spilak23 wrote:
issoisso wrote:
Aquarius wrote:
you don't mean Contador has reached the age of old. Pretty please.
It's not about being old.
The earlier you become a top rider, the earlier you start to decline. That's always the case. Look at Cunego
For example, Sagan is amazing for a 23 year old, but it's unlikely he'll be a great rider by age 31. Contador is likely experiencing decline already. It's just the way it is. Petacchi was still top at 35 because he didn't turn into a top sprinter until age 29 or so. And so on, etc. etc.
Heck, let's go back to the best of all time. Merckx was world champion at 22. Before he was 30 he was finished. At 31 he retired, unable to get results.
Kloden won Paris-Nice 13 years ago and is still at quite a high level.
You can't seriously be arguing that Klöden hasn't declined.
You really think he's still at the level required to finish 2nd in the Tour de France ahead of a peak Ullrich, Basso, etc?
But he reached his peak about 7 years before Contador did, both by winning PN. Kloden's last big result is Pais Vasco 2011, since then he is clearly in decline so Contador should still have some very strong years left.
I agree with your point that you can't be at the top for 15 years. Though I don't think Contador is starting to decline already.
Edited by Spilak23 on 05-03-2013 20:02
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| fosforgasXIII |
Posted on 05-03-2013 20:37
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Contador will still be there for two more years at least. |
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| Atlantius |
Posted on 05-03-2013 20:41
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Just posted on the Giro d'Italia facebook:
Vincenzo Nibali, Alberto Contador, Mark Cavendish, Cadel Evans, Christopher Froome, Fabian Cancellara, Joaquim Rodriguez...do you need more to follow Tirreno Adriatico?
Tomorrow is the big day...don't miss!
No Andy Schleck anyway???
Edited by Atlantius on 05-03-2013 20:41
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| fcancellara |
Posted on 05-03-2013 20:42
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I think they just chose Cancellara to represent RadioShack
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| issoisso |
Posted on 05-03-2013 21:00
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 22918
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Spilak23 wrote:
But he reached his peak about 7 years before Contador did, both by winning PN. Kloden's last big result is Pais Vasco 2011, since then he is clearly in decline so Contador should still have some very strong years left.
I agree with your point that you can't be at the top for 15 years. Though I don't think Contador is starting to decline already.
Nobody's arguing Contador will get strong results, simply he can't possibly be at the top for much longer.
Atlantius wrote:
Just posted on the Giro d'Italia facebook:
Vincenzo Nibali, Alberto Contador, Mark Cavendish, Cadel Evans, Christopher Froome, Fabian Cancellara, Joaquim Rodriguez...do you need more to follow Tirreno Adriatico?
Tomorrow is the big day...don't miss!
No Andy Schleck anyway???
Cancellara is a bigger star and more importantly will be at the Giro which is the main thing to promote.
The preceding post is ISSO 9001 certified
"I love him, I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense" - Bradley Wiggins on Lance Armstrong
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| depeche92 |
Posted on 05-03-2013 21:13
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Atlantius wrote:
Just posted on the Giro d'Italia facebook:
Vincenzo Nibali, Alberto Contador, Mark Cavendish, Cadel Evans, Christopher Froome, Fabian Cancellara, Joaquim Rodriguez...do you need more to follow Tirreno Adriatico?
Tomorrow is the big day...don't miss!
No Andy Schleck anyway???
I just saw a special program about tirreno on Rai and they have never mentioned A.Schleck, not even as outsider or as man worthy of note. Tifosi and journalists have already forgotten him... |
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| Alakagom |
Posted on 05-03-2013 21:22
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depeche92 wrote:
Atlantius wrote:
Just posted on the Giro d'Italia facebook:
Vincenzo Nibali, Alberto Contador, Mark Cavendish, Cadel Evans, Christopher Froome, Fabian Cancellara, Joaquim Rodriguez...do you need more to follow Tirreno Adriatico?
Tomorrow is the big day...don't miss!
No Andy Schleck anyway???
I just saw a special program about tirreno on Rai and they have never mentioned A.Schleck, not even as outsider or as man worthy of note. Tifosi and journalists have already forgotten him...
What's the point calling him an outsider as he's very unlikely to even finish Tirreno...
As long as he finishes and gets into better shape than he was at the beginning of Tirreno, it'll be a success for Andy. I don't see why mentioning him as a contender though in any way shape or form here.
Edited by Alakagom on 05-03-2013 21:23
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| Aquarius |
Posted on 05-03-2013 21:38
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issoisso wrote:
Even they aren't full exceptions.
Boonen has lost his sprint, and other than one season working with the magical Ibarguren he's been nothing like his former self since 2009.
Valverde isn't the rider he once was. 2005 Tour, even 2006 Vuelta.
Freire prolonged his career due to not racing nearly as much as others. It's something many have done. Armstrong being the main example.
I'm quoting your message, but this is more of a general answer.
I'd say getting old affects several parameters, such as motivation, or more broadly : mental skills.
It also affects the physical potential by changing explosive or intermediate twitches into intermediate or slow twitches. Better for endurance, worse for explosiveness. And explosiveness is used for any effort that lasts 5 minutes or shorter, which is what could be called "money time" in cycling races.
So, though they're potentially becoming better cyclists overall, they're losing what it takes to be a winner.
Not much can be done to solve the second one, but for the first one, as mentioned above, racing less or changing teams or racing schedules might help solving the matter.
Edited by Aquarius on 05-03-2013 21:39
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| sutty68 |
Posted on 05-03-2013 23:11
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 34654
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Atlantius wrote:
Just posted on the Giro d'Italia facebook:
Vincenzo Nibali, Alberto Contador, Mark Cavendish, Cadel Evans, Christopher Froome, Fabian Cancellara, Joaquim Rodriguez...do you need more to follow Tirreno Adriatico?
Tomorrow is the big day...don't miss!
No Andy Schleck anyway???
Schleck retired halfway up the stairs to the photo shoot |
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