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[2023] Stat Gains, XP, Team Info, Wildcards, Point Scales
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 10-08-2023 10:33
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Tour de France Champion
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redordead wrote:
My point is if you're going to make 4 -> 4.100 which is hardest for CT easier, then you should also make 1 -> 2 easier for PT, but then everyone is developing everything by themselves, so not much need for loans.
Why minimize one of the game's aspects that actually requires managers to talk to each other?
As a CT manager, i'm 100% gunning for Loans to the PT. It's still quicker and preferable
However, being both poor and stocked with at best low level PT domestiques finding a space in the PT is not guaranteed. This system means I don't have to "lose" a year and can maintain a role-play element, as a back-up to the far superior option.
Where as PT you can loan to both CT & PCT, so you have far more teams who could take in your rider. You also have a larger budget so can better absorb that cost or afford to pay out a larger fee to ensure that space on a team.
Plus PT has access to Lvl 1 CP in PTHC races (1,1 XP per RD). If you sent a Lvl 1 rider to all PTHC races you'd gain 46.2 lvl 1 XP. Plus 20 Avenir XP to end the season at 1.86. That's two years to go 1 > 2, just it would take CT two years to go 4 > 4.100.
We'd all agree Loans are obviously quicker and every managers preferred path. This change allows a back-up route in case a Loan cannot be secured. Give it a try this season, if it doesn't work we've hardly ruined anything.
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| roturn |
Posted on 10-08-2023 10:33
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Team Manager
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I would see it as a test to be honest.
After 1 year we can check again and see how much really has changed.
I guess, many PT managers will still talk to PCT/CT for the 3 year maxing loan, while I also expect the same happening to many lvl4 CT riders and even lvl4 PCT riders to PT.
The CT lvl4 leveling is just an option but as it takes 2 years for most, many managers surely want to have it done faster and still go the loan way.
After 1 year, we can always re-consider after checking, how this has changed the game/conversation/system. |
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| Fabianski |
Posted on 10-08-2023 10:36
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4670
Joined: 29-09-2018
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redordead wrote:
You can't do lvl1 -> lvl2 in PT.
My point is if you're going to make 4 -> 4.100 which is hardest for CT easier, then you should also make 1 -> 2 easier for PT, but then everyone is developing everything by themselves, so not much need for loans.
Why minimize one of the game's aspects that actually requires managers to talk to each other?
I agree that lvl1 -> lvl2 is not possible in one year, but in two (supposing 2 Avenir participations and plenty of PTHC races), just like lvl4 -> max in CT with the new rules. For strong talents, even lvl1 -> lvl3 might not be possible in 2 years, though - haven't made exact calculations.
The fastest path for both CT and PT teams remains via loans, so if you've got really good talents you want to max as fast as possible, loans will still be the way to go.
I agree that restricting elements that make managers talk to each other isn't great. But why not give it a go this year and rethink it if it really leads to massively less PT loans?
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| redordead |
Posted on 10-08-2023 10:54
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Grand Tour Specialist
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TheManxMissile wrote:
Where as PT you can loan to both CT & PCT, so you have far more teams who could take in your rider. You also have a larger budget so can better absorb that cost or afford to pay out a larger fee to ensure that space on a team.
Plus PT has access to Lvl 1 CP in PTHC races (1,1 XP per RD). If you sent a Lvl 1 rider to all PTHC races you'd gain 46.2 lvl 1 XP. Plus 20 Avenir XP to end the season at 1.86. That's two years to go 1 > 2, just it would take CT two years to go 4 > 4.100.
Yeah, but that's more theory than practicality. No one will choose PTHC in order to get XP for lvl 1 riders and with the band system not only is it impractical the band races will also clash. Also you're relying on Avenir eligibility to make it even a possibility, not the same with lvl 4s which can be any age.
CT and PCT teams also can develop stags much more (usually lvl1 riders), because PCT can use them in any C2 race across the calendar and there are plenty C2/C1/HC races available from august onwards than there are PTHC races with the bands.
The advantage CT/PCT has in developing 1 -> 2/3 is in my opinion sufficiently superior to balance what they can't do at lvl 4.
"I am a cyclist, I may not be the best, but that is what I strive to be. I may never get there, but I will never quit trying." - Tadej Pogačar
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| Ezeefreak |
Posted on 10-08-2023 10:59
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Domestique
Posts: 555
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The advantage CT/PCT has in developing 1 -> 2/3 is in my opinion sufficiently superior to balance what they can't do at lvl 4.
Sure thats true but on the other side the advantage PT teams have to just hire talents with insane amount of money is even more HUGE. Its not like any CT will ever be able to get hands on a top tier talent, they will always be your talent dumpster to develop them. So maybe leave them a bit room to let them develop their own mediocre talents and build their teams themself slowly if they want to. You can still just throw money at CT teams like us and get whatever you want.
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| redordead |
Posted on 10-08-2023 11:17
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Grand Tour Specialist
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Ezeefreak wrote:
The advantage CT/PCT has in developing 1 -> 2/3 is in my opinion sufficiently superior to balance what they can't do at lvl 4.
Sure thats true but on the other side the advantage PT teams have to just hire talents with insane amount of money is even more HUGE. Its not like any CT will ever be able to get hands on a top tier talent, they will always be your talent dumpster to develop them. So maybe leave them a bit room to let them develop their own mediocre talents and build their teams themself slowly if they want to. You can still just throw money at CT teams like us and get whatever you want.
I love how I got labelled as soon as I made it to PT, a division I didn't even wanted to be in 
PCT is/was always the best division for recruiting and developing talents. You have the wage cap to go for better riders and if you pay money for wildcards you can max them yourself. For managers that like developing talent (including myself) it's the best place to be.
CT probably gets the most money per loan deal and PT pays the most. Each division serves a purpose to make the ecosystem function.
"I am a cyclist, I may not be the best, but that is what I strive to be. I may never get there, but I will never quit trying." - Tadej Pogačar
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| Nemolito |
Posted on 10-08-2023 11:28
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Classics Specialist
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redordead wrote:
CT probably gets the most money per loan deal and PT pays the most. Each division serves a purpose to make the ecosystem function.
Agree, but don't think this new stat gain 'option' changes a lot. People will always want to loan out and max a rider if possible. But now, even if no PT team wants to loan in your 'useless' lvl 4 rider you mainly have for roleplaying reasons, you could at least max him yourself as a CT team.
Also, 1-3'ing a rider as a PT team in two years is already possible, and I brought up two 1.60-ish riders to lvl 3 in PT this season. Did have to pick all PTHC races, but it's possible. Taking this into account and the budget/salary cap plus very easy leveling up any other level than a lower 1, PT teams don't seem to have a very big disadvantage imo 
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| SportingNonsense |
Posted on 11-08-2023 00:22
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Team Manager
Posts: 33046
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Probably the case in the past that a CT team maxing out a rider is the most difficult thing to achieve, where the rider doesn't appeal to PT teams - so this looks a good way to help that.
Keeping it awkward for PT teams to improve Level 1 riders is key - PT teams already have space to gather all the the best current riders, generally. It's not ideal if they would also have it too easy to sweep up the future best riders from the get go too.
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| AbhishekLFC |
Posted on 19-08-2023 10:30
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 11676
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Is the additional 20 xp for lvl 4 still applicable if a CT team takes a lvl 3 rider on loan and levels up?
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| roturn |
Posted on 19-08-2023 10:34
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Team Manager
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AbhishekLFC wrote:
Is the additional 20 xp for lvl 4 still applicable if a CT team takes a lvl 3 rider on loan and levels up?
I`d say no as the calculation behind it is similar to the Avenir 20xp, which comes first and this is not possible in case of 3.x.
Also the 3.x is making one level up. The 20xp for CT is to help to level up in 2 years, not to get additional xp to someone leveling up from level 3. |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 24-11-2024 00:05
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Bot Agent
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| knockout |
Posted on 05-05-2024 22:07
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7735
Joined: 21-12-2010
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Everyone should have received their stat gains PM now. If you havent but expected one, please message me.
A Big Thank You To All MG Reporters! |
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| Fabianski |
Posted on 05-05-2024 22:16
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4670
Joined: 29-09-2018
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Is there any news yet on the OVL side? It looks like I won't be concerned next year, but if you plan for a PCT rider to stay below the C2 eligibility threshold, and then he suddenly isn't, that can be a bit frustrating... (and yeah, I fully intended that when I signed Tediashvili - and would still like to do so, as I'll likely be in PCT in 2 years  )
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| knockout |
Posted on 11-06-2024 16:14
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7735
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With the season about to end soon, it might be time to submit your choices it you havent done yet!
A Big Thank You To All MG Reporters! |
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| Fabianski |
Posted on 11-06-2024 20:40
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4670
Joined: 29-09-2018
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Yeah, I know I'm among those who haven't submitted yet, because I'm still waiting for any kind of reaction to my question. But I strongly suppose there won't be any changes in OVL calculation etc. without announcing it earlier in the season.
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| AbhishekLFC |
Posted on 12-06-2024 07:08
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 11676
Joined: 27-07-2015
PCM$: 1861.50
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Fabianski wrote:
Yeah, I know I'm among those who haven't submitted yet, because I'm still waiting for any kind of reaction to my question. But I strongly suppose there won't be any changes in OVL calculation etc. without announcing it earlier in the season.
You can wait for roturn to confirm, but I can say there won't be any OVL update for next season.
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 12-06-2024 12:37
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 16429
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Sorry, will be done in the next couple of days
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
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| Fabianski |
Posted on 12-06-2024 12:39
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4670
Joined: 29-09-2018
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AbhishekLFC wrote:
Fabianski wrote:
Yeah, I know I'm among those who haven't submitted yet, because I'm still waiting for any kind of reaction to my question. But I strongly suppose there won't be any changes in OVL calculation etc. without announcing it earlier in the season.
You can wait for roturn to confirm, but I can say there won't be any OVL update for next season.
OK. Can't say I'm happy with this generally (especially for TTers and puncheurs), but given that the season is almost done it's the only correct decision.
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| knockout |
Posted on 12-06-2024 12:45
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7735
Joined: 21-12-2010
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Fabianski wrote:
AbhishekLFC wrote:
Fabianski wrote:
Yeah, I know I'm among those who haven't submitted yet, because I'm still waiting for any kind of reaction to my question. But I strongly suppose there won't be any changes in OVL calculation etc. without announcing it earlier in the season.
You can wait for roturn to confirm, but I can say there won't be any OVL update for next season.
OK. Can't say I'm happy with this generally (especially for TTers and puncheurs), but given that the season is almost done it's the only correct decision.
Im very happy about it. Imo its far better having a mediocre formula for 10 straight years where everyone can adapt their roster to it than a new good one every year with random swings in riders. This way a manager can adapt their transfers and development choices to it instead of relying on luck or lobbying to get an advantage.
A Big Thank You To All MG Reporters! |
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| Fabianski |
Posted on 12-06-2024 13:05
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4670
Joined: 29-09-2018
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I definitely get your point. I'm just not really happy that OVL has an impact on both RDs and wages. Imho wages could depend on results to a higher percentage than they do now, then OVL wouldn't matter quite as much as it does now.
But in particular puncheur OVL calculation would deserve a close look. I mean, Areruya going from 79 Mo to 81 Mo without losing any RDs (hence without significantly gaining in OVL) means that something was weird - but that's my position. But maybe I just don't like Schmid's (clearly exaggerated) OVL, so I might be biased
However, if it should be decided that we move ahead to a game version including the new mid-mountain stat, I agree that no more time should be spent on the current OVL formula anymore. As you say, managers can adapt - and in the Areruya case, it might just have been great planning by jandal to take this approach.
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| quadsas |
Posted on 12-06-2024 18:22
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Small Tour Specialist
Posts: 2518
Joined: 18-01-2013
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Just do your gosh dang stat gains bludettes
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![imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg](https://imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg)
