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Tour of Guadeloupe Discussion
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| GregPeck |
Posted on 07-11-2022 06:57
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We were active during the stage, and a 5th place finish for Boudat. That's a decent start. Hopefully, we can get a stage win, but it will be a tough ask. |
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| Luis Leon Sanchez |
Posted on 07-11-2022 11:15
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Great start to the race that from the Team with Jakobsen sneaking his way into 2nd which puts him in a great position for the GC. De La Cruz continuing his breakaway exploits to be provisional U25 leader and 3rd in the KOM as well.
Thank you for the report and a strong win that was expected from Ahlstrand!
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 26-11-2024 01:06
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 07-11-2022 23:37
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Did we end up reintroducing bendy sprint finishes this year? Both of the first two stages have had turns that seemed to affect the sprint in terms of positioning and energy. Not saying that's a bad thing, it's just surprising to see after a couple of years of straight, wide roads.
AKA continues to be pathetic. 12th is again just not good enough. He's latching onto trains which is better than Juarez. But he's too far back and doesn't seem to be able to outlast the others like usual. In for quarter of his race days being completely wasted between these two races.
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
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| Ulrich Ulriksen |
Posted on 08-11-2022 02:28
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baseballlover312 wrote:
Did we end up reintroducing bendy sprint finishes this year? Both of the first two stages have had turns that seemed to affect the sprint in terms of positioning and energy. Not saying that's a bad thing, it's just surprising to see after a couple of years of straight, wide roads.
We didn't re-introduce them but because Guadeloupe is a new race based on a Il Lince zcts they hadn't been removed and I didn't remove them because I don't think that helped much in PCM20. You can't have a finish just around a corner or the lead out rider will win but the bends seem to be OK. I think it does make a lead out more important, the big straight roads tend to contribute to the favorites getting overwhelmed. So I think having these in the mix is probably a good thing.
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| Eden95 |
Posted on 08-11-2022 03:48
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Not really enjoying being back to the Grosu treatment after Mexico - hopefully something changes tomorrow, but I doubt it. I’m worried we’re (or somebody else) going to ultimately be relegated due to AI fuck ups like this which sucks because there’s nothing you can do about it but watch your RDs be wasted. Thanks for the reports though UU.
Indosat - ANZ HQ
"This Schleck sandwich is going to cause serious indigestion for Evans" - Phil Liggett |
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| Marcovdw |
Posted on 08-11-2022 10:00
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| Nemolito |
Posted on 08-11-2022 10:05
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VESELYYYYYY
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| Imladrik |
Posted on 08-11-2022 10:28
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I have to think that the official celebrations and receptions about Bordeaux-Guadeloupe friendship are to much for them to really be racing.
Two stages to go, it can't get any worse, isn't it ? |
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 08-11-2022 10:48
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There's a reason i tried to minimise our C1 appearances, and it's perfectly demonstrated over two stages here. Not even a hint at the breakaway, and obviously no contest at the finish.
I'll take the enjoyment of seeing Marco get a rewarding result, and what thus far is proving to be a solid race upfront.
Also #endcolonialism #luckilywehavelotsofrum #thisraceisevenbetterinimax #ads
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| Ulrich Ulriksen |
Posted on 08-11-2022 16:28
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Eden95 wrote:
Not really enjoying being back to the Grosu treatment after Mexico - hopefully something changes tomorrow, but I doubt it. I’m worried we’re (or somebody else) going to ultimately be relegated due to AI fuck ups like this which sucks because there’s nothing you can do about it but watch your RDs be wasted. Thanks for the reports though UU.
I am not sure we can blame the AI for AKA and Howard. If you just add SP + ACC they are the 13th and 9th (tied) best sprinters in the field. Using a little more complex weight that includes RS and FL I get them at 6th and 11th. I think the issue here is the large number of similar sprinters in the DB.
I am wondering if rather than fighting the AI we should eliminate the pure sprint GC races altogether and then use the sprint friendly GT green jersey points in all races. This would then spread the sprinters our across more races but allow them to score by winning points jerseys more of the time (maybe up the points for points jersey). You could replace the sprint races with GC races that have 1 or 2 GC stages and multiple sprints which would also have the benefit of spreading the GC riders out more. Will post on my PCM22 testing but my initial impression is they have fixed the 4th best bug but that sprints are still screwy and appear to work best as part of a traditional GC race.
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| quadsas |
Posted on 08-11-2022 17:38
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The only 'problem' is incredibly high amount of very sameish sprinters. Granted, Halvorsen the Great is better than most of them, but I dont find it very shocking to see him finish 7th or 8th. Ahlstrand the only real exception in the pool and it has been clearly showing in both tours. If your sprinters dont perform, maybe your team and/or sprinter just fuckin sucks. Somehow Raim keeps doing a great leadout (sometimes too good in case of stage 1), so maybe also try to consider what Ive said many times before in that you want your leadout to be MUCH worse than your main one (as Ive learned from playing PCM).
Also hell nah to removing sprint stage races alltogether. I think the results this year have been satisfactory to say the least (Ahlstrand is crushing, top end PCT sprinters like Vesely, Halvorsen and Silvestre also strong). No doubt thanks to extra added stages.
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| Fabianski |
Posted on 08-11-2022 19:24
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As others said, I think the main issue with sprinters not sprinting is just inflation, leading to too many similar sprinters. PCM unfortunately just can't handle more than 10-15 sprinters, so at least some teams will always leave empty-handed - or just be lucky in one or two stages. I'm pretty sure that once the measures against inflation start working even better, those races will have more predictable results. But obviously, I'm looking forward to UU's tests here - nonetheless, I'd find it helpful to test those sprinter stage races on a more widely spread sprinter DB.
The other major issue is obviously the 4th sprinter bug, which just sucks big time for whoever is "elected" by PCM to play this "role". With this one being solved, at least the teams with the best sprinters should have less risk to go home empty-handed.
Talking about the race, big show by Ahlstrand so far, and also great to see Vesely strike back after his last disappointing race!
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| Eden95 |
Posted on 08-11-2022 23:31
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Ulrich Ulriksen wrote:
Eden95 wrote:
Not really enjoying being back to the Grosu treatment after Mexico - hopefully something changes tomorrow, but I doubt it. I’m worried we’re (or somebody else) going to ultimately be relegated due to AI fuck ups like this which sucks because there’s nothing you can do about it but watch your RDs be wasted. Thanks for the reports though UU.
I am not sure we can blame the AI for AKA and Howard. If you just add SP + ACC they are the 13th and 9th (tied) best sprinters in the field. Using a little more complex weight that includes RS and FL I get them at 6th and 11th. I think the issue here is the large number of similar sprinters in the DB.
I am wondering if rather than fighting the AI we should eliminate the pure sprint GC races altogether and then use the sprint friendly GT green jersey points in all races. This would then spread the sprinters our across more races but allow them to score by winning points jerseys more of the time (maybe up the points for points jersey). You could replace the sprint races with GC races that have 1 or 2 GC stages and multiple sprints which would also have the benefit of spreading the GC riders out more. Will post on my PCM22 testing but my initial impression is they have fixed the 4th best bug but that sprints are still screwy and appear to work best as part of a traditional GC race.
Not too sure about eliminating flat races altogether, but if a method can be found where the amount of pure flat races can be minimised without sprinters point hauls being affected too negatively than that could be an interesting way to go.
And of course neither are the best in the field, but it’s clearly an AI issue when you also take the last stage into consideration as well - Howard can’t even be assed to stay in the front group whilst Wippert, Boudat and Scully et al. with lower OVL/ in game average (and significantly less wage demands in the mg world) can aim for consistent results three stages straight. Please don’t take this the wrong way or anything Ulrich as I’m not having a go at you or anything or trying to detract from the race at all (and I do greatly apologise if I am), I can just see it written in the stars that a team will finish like 100-200 points outside of safety and these kind of shenanigans (like this or the TDU for us) will basically relegate someone unfairly. I know luck is a big part of the MG which is fine and accepted and even adds to it, but I think this is a bit different.
Indosat - ANZ HQ
"This Schleck sandwich is going to cause serious indigestion for Evans" - Phil Liggett |
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| Luis Leon Sanchez |
Posted on 08-11-2022 23:51
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After going missing on stage 2, that’s an excellent result from Jakobsen! 2nd again and a half decent result on the final stage should mean a podium. He’s even given himself a chance of winning it although that seems unlikely with how strong Ahlstrand has been.
Also a fantastic day for young Henry Alberto Sam to not only move into the GC Top 20 by being on the right side of the splits but also leading the U25s! Great racing from him, De La Cruz and Miquel at the moment 
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| Nemolito |
Posted on 08-11-2022 23:53
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Sam <3
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 09-11-2022 00:01
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Eventful stage, that's for sure. I had no idea where the action was gonna go, but it was easy to keep track of everything thanks to the great reporting. Appreciate the careful work Ulrich.
Obviously I'm not thrilled that AKA was in a decent spot with a domestique at 5 km to go, and yet he managed to get dropped before the final uphill. With his flat and resistance I just don't expect something like that to happen. He should thrive in a scramble like that on paper.
That being said, we obviously came out of this stage very fortunate compared to the likes of Howard and the rest who missed the split. Bizarre situation and terrible loss for them. We actually ended up gaining from the whole situation thanks mostly to Resell staying in the escape. If he can stay in the pack tomorrow, we can have two guys in the teens on GC, which equals a lower top 10 points wise. Still not what we wanted, but better than I expected after stage 2.
Obviously I'd love to have AKA win the sprint lottery and get a top 5 tomorrow, but in light of our previous discussion, it's probably more realistic to just hope he doesn't miss a split and fall from his minor placing.
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
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| Ulrich Ulriksen |
Posted on 09-11-2022 02:27
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Eden95 wrote:
And of course neither are the best in the field, but it’s clearly an AI issue when you also take the last stage into consideration as well - Howard can’t even be assed to stay in the front group whilst Wippert, Boudat and Scully et al. with lower OVL/ in game average (and significantly less wage demands in the mg world) can aim for consistent results three stages straight. Please don’t take this the wrong way or anything Ulrich as I’m not having a go at you or anything or trying to detract from the race at all (and I do greatly apologise if I am), I can just see it written in the stars that a team will finish like 100-200 points outside of safety and these kind of shenanigans (like this or the TDU for us) will basically relegate someone unfairly. I know luck is a big part of the MG which is fine and accepted and even adds to it, but I think this is a bit different.
I get your complaints completely and understand the frustration. I think my AI point is that I am just not sure if it fair to expect the AI to resolve 15 very similar sprinters in a way that doesn't screw someone. Howard is stronger than Boudat and co but he isn't that much stronger so RDC and luck get magnified.
I felt like given the very tough opening to the stage the split wasn't totally crazy, the teams behind didn't chase well and I think that is partly the downside of the added MT stage - the game expects a GC contender to lead the chase but there isn't really one.
baseballlover312 wrote:
Obviously I'm not thrilled that AKA was in a decent spot with a domestique at 5 km to go, and yet he managed to get dropped before the final uphill. With his flat and resistance I just don't expect something like that to happen. He should thrive in a scramble like that on paper.
I think this was just really bad luck rather than any lack of quality - he had done a turn on the front and pulled off just as the rest of the sprinters took off with the sprint and therefore I think missed the initial push.
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 09-11-2022 02:44
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Ulrich Ulriksen wrote:
baseballlover312 wrote:
Obviously I'm not thrilled that AKA was in a decent spot with a domestique at 5 km to go, and yet he managed to get dropped before the final uphill. With his flat and resistance I just don't expect something like that to happen. He should thrive in a scramble like that on paper.
I think this was just really bad luck rather than any lack of quality - he had done a turn on the front and pulled off just as the rest of the sprinters took off with the sprint and therefore I think missed the initial push.
Appreciate the explanation. Just want to be clear that I'm not trying to nitpick or say the AI is broken here or anything. Just microanalysing my own team's performance.
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
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| Jajajasper |
Posted on 09-11-2022 06:42
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Megawin from Scully! |
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| SotD |
Posted on 09-11-2022 07:28
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Nice to see Mengoulas in the break also collecting some KOM points, sitting in 3rd after the stage. I can't really see if there's any KOM points in the final stage, but it can't be a lot.
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![imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg](https://imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg)
