quadsas wrote:
No general suggestion thread, so I'll just say it here once again:
I am in favor of not reporting NCs. Genuinely no reason to put more burden on people's shoulders for something that has no impact on the game.
Not like you’d be reporting them anyway
I love the country specific jerseys created for my team and for others and, as a reporter, love the variety they bring to the Peloton as the rider really stands out. Especially noticeable in TTs.
Reports for NCs are usually short and sweet anyway and, with no other reporting being done, it should be a relatively quick process. The alternative would be to sim? That removes the element of breakaways and some randomness which makes NCs special.
quadsas wrote:
No general suggestion thread, so I'll just say it here once again:
I am in favor of not reporting NCs. Genuinely no reason to put more burden on people's shoulders for something that has no impact on the game.
Not like you’d be reporting them anyway
I love the country specific jerseys created for my team and for others and, as a reporter, love the variety they bring to the Peloton as the rider really stands out. Especially noticeable in TTs.
Reports for NCs are usually short and sweet anyway and, with no other reporting being done, it should be a relatively quick process. The alternative would be to sim? That removes the element of breakaways and some randomness which makes NCs special.
Plus NC's exist to fill in time between season end and the main off-season/transfer period. Still a lot of behind the scenes to do, so rather than sitting around with nothing for a month or more we slot in some Worlds and NC's to keep it ticking over.
Nothing is waiting because of NC's, they don't slow down anything else.
Or better yet, just don't waste reporter's time even if there's nothing else to do? Even better though, report your own NCs if you care so much about something so insignificant if you don't want simming.
Can't speak for other reporters (though LLS seems to feel at least similar), but I actually enjoy reporting NCs. I enjoy reporting in general, wouldn't do it (at least much) otherwise, so it's not a burden for me. So while I appreciate you looking out for us quadsas, at least in my view this is not the point where we need to trim fat.
While I'm here though, something on the actual topic of the thread: I can confirm that PCM22 has the option to entirely deactivate daily form (or reduce it to whatever interval you want, -1 to +1 or -2 to +2 etc). I haven't played much myself yet, but from what I've read, people seem to be feeling positive regarding the AI, other than the sprint AI which still seems to deliver leaders too early. That doesn't have to mean much considering our DB, but I thought I'd at least mention the former, which could be quite the gamechanger for us, I suppose.
cunego59 wrote:
While I'm here though, something on the actual topic of the thread: I can confirm that PCM22 has the option to entirely deactivate daily form (or reduce it to whatever interval you want, -1 to +1 or -2 to +2 etc). I haven't played much myself yet, but from what I've read, people seem to be feeling positive regarding the AI, other than the sprint AI which still seems to deliver leaders too early. That doesn't have to mean much considering our DB, but I thought I'd at least mention the former, which could be quite the gamechanger for us, I suppose.
As always, I am in favor of moving forward with the new version, not sure if it's still being considered. Regardless, that is definitely a massive gamechanger and should be heavily considered even for the next year. Before usual suspects start bitching, I would help with the move if it happens. But being able to adjust daily form is huge. Even fun things like varied daily form for some races could be done. Of course, I would be against turning it off completely, but the effects of even +2 are so massive in our DB that it should be a point of discussion before we reach pre-season.
And finally, one more question that just arose: Given that we have 5 promoting and 5 relegating teams, but only 5 promoting from CT and 3 relegating from PT, how will PCT look like next season? Only 24 teams? 2 additional promoting CT teams?
It just came to my mind as well that with 3 already known disbands (thereof Eurosport, who relegated anyway), in order to have PT and PCT with 22 and 26 teams, we'd need to have 9 promoting CT teams - which would leave us with 5 current CT teams plus 4 relegating PCT teams. There definitely would need to be quite some new sign-ups and certainly no additional disbands to still work with 3 divisions I guess...
(And no, I don't mention this to somehow avoid relegation - I'm absolutely fine with that verdict)
I unfortunately was very busy lately but this is something that surely will be calculated once I get a better picture of disbands etc.
Bringing this over from the rankings thread since there's no general suggestion thread. I think a decrease to 24 PCT teams would be a good move, and we have an opportunity to do it seamlessly just by not having as many disband promotions. 26 is unnecessarily large given our reduced play base imo, and having two more stable teams in CT is good for the health of the game as a whole. The more active managers we have in CT, the less of a chance other managers will lose motivation and leave the game upon demotion because they feel like their races are an afterthought.
On NC's:
I wouldn't mind NC's being simmed if it might actually save people's time and reporter's effort. But going by LLS's perspective, if it really isn't much of a burden and fills time that would be needed for planning anyway, we might as well keep them.
On the version:
I agree that PCM 22's ability to adjust Daily Form potency could be a true game changer for our purposes. Restricting it to +/-2 would probably be perfect. That said, I realize a lot of planning goes into getting stages/graphics/CDB stuff ready for a new game version, and it often relies on a fully patched game with a Daily Expansion Pack as the base. So, if PCM 22 isn't a possibility for this year, it should at least be the set game for 2023 ahead of time. I really do think it would be a massive improvement from the daily form stuff alone.
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy
Won’t PCT have 21 teams? 5 relegations replaced with 5 promotions. But 6 pct promotions (as festina also disband) replaced with one pt relegator in Xero as Mapei is gone and tsmoha hasn’t been around in yonks. It’s early and I’m probably wrong, but 21 is alright. Could cap it at 5 promotions and have it at 22 PCT teams.
Nonetheless I think in the coming weeks when behind the scenes stuff for next season gets started, we need to seriously consider options for attracting new managers from outside daily. Forums are unfortunately becoming a thing of the past in lieu of Discord etc., and there’s just not enough traffic. I definitely think it would be possible and would love to explore options here.
Alternatively if we want to decrease PCT numbers we could cut relegation from PT for a year... sems rather unfair to make one team relegate by themselves anyway
24/02/21 - kandesbunzler said “I don't drink famous people."
15/08/22 - SotD said "Your [jandal's] humour is overrated"
11/06/24 - knockout said "Winning is fine I guess. Truth be told this felt completely unimportant." [ICL] Santos-Euskadi | [PT] Xero Racing
Eden95 wrote:
Won’t PCT have 21 teams? 5 relegations replaced with 5 promotions. But 6 pct promotions (as festina also disband) replaced with one pt relegator in Xero as Mapei is gone and tsmoha hasn’t been around in yonks. It’s early and I’m probably wrong, but 21 is alright. Could cap it at 5 promotions and have it at 22 PCT teams.
Nonetheless I think in the coming weeks when behind the scenes stuff for next season gets started, we need to seriously consider options for attracting new managers from outside daily. Forums are unfortunately becoming a thing of the past in lieu of Discord etc., and there’s just not enough traffic. I definitely think it would be possible and would love to explore options here.
100% agreed.
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy
I wanted to add some more info on PCM22 in case a switch is really a consideration, given the positive reactions to the possibility of decreasing the influence of daily form. Because there are other changes to the game that are pretty significant. The following is based on some targeted testing and some impressions from regular gameplay.
The main thing is changes to how stamina and resistance work. Stamina is basically the old resistance: it's responsible for how quickly the yellow bar is depleted and how quickly it recharges. Resistance now does the same for the red bar, meaning that riders with high resistance can accelerate longer and more often (early tests indicated that the impact of res differences is fairly low, but that was in an artificial setting so take it with a grain of salt).
The big thing is though that both stats only kick in once the green bar starts to deplete. That means that if for instance a stage is short, mostly flat but there is one big climb at the end and riders arrive there with the green bar almost fully intact, resistance and stamina don't matter at all. On the other hand, in the late stages of a long and demanding race, their influence will be felt the most. The rate at which the green bar depletes seems to be a little influenced by stamina, but mostly it's simpy how much effort you needed based on your main stats.
On the one hand, this presents a significant change in how to evaluate riders' strenghts, on the other, it also gives us the opportunity to provide different types of riders with better chances. For instance, we could include some shorter races where riders with low sta/res (think someone like Spengler or Altur, quite a few sprinters, or declining riders who are especially hit in those backup stats) get a better opportunity to succeed, but also long races specifically for those with high sta/res.
Another thing, which is only based on impressions from regular gameplay and would need to be tested a bit more, is that it feels like acceleration is more pronounced in its "true function" - getting a rider up to pace quickly. This manifested in stuff like a sprinter losing his leadout's wheel for a bit because the leadout had higher acceleration (even with lower sprint), and I found it very difficult to win mountain sprints with a rider that had lower acceleration than the guys around him, even if he was a bit better in climbing stats - more difficult than in previous editions. Again, I can't yet back this up with "evidence" from testing, but I wanted to mention it at least.
I'm sure there are implications to this that I haven't considered, and it might be tricky to evaluate this properly in time for renewals (-> potential need to adjust the ovr formula) and transfers. So I think it's important to discuss this now, if we actually think about making that switch.
So I spent years overvaluing RES when I should have overvalued STA?
24/02/21 - kandesbunzler said “I don't drink famous people."
15/08/22 - SotD said "Your [jandal's] humour is overrated"
11/06/24 - knockout said "Winning is fine I guess. Truth be told this felt completely unimportant." [ICL] Santos-Euskadi | [PT] Xero Racing
I don't get why Cyanide/Focus/BigBen/Nacon/Whoever makes this game nowadays doesn't just re-do stats and move away from a system created like 15+ years ago when the simulation mechanics were almost entirely different. But that's not the point...
I'd say there's no rush on testing at this stage. No way could we do it justice, then get enough changes made to the DB and stages in time for the 2022 MG season. We should roll with what was already put out in terms of version & changes. For 2023 MG season we probably should move on to PCM22 either way.
Plus we have slightly more pressing matters of either recruiting new managers, or re-working the Divisions so we don't end up with a pointless 7 team CT.
Plus if the game changes continue to move that far we'd need to look at the DB again overall, or make quite a few new stages, well then radical TMM has some ideas to re-set the game and truly embrace change haha
TheManxMissile wrote:
1) I'd say there's no rush on testing at this stage. No way could we do it justice, then get enough changes made to the DB and stages in time for the 2022 MG season. We should roll with what was already put out in terms of version & changes. For 2023 MG season we probably should move on to PCM22 either way.
2) Plus we have slightly more pressing matters of either recruiting new managers, or re-working the Divisions so we don't end up with a pointless 7 team CT.
1) I agree with this.
2) More on that soon, a thread will be put up, and a 'working group' should be made. But yeah, more on that soon
TheManxMissile wrote:
I don't get why Cyanide/Focus/BigBen/Nacon/Whoever makes this game nowadays doesn't just re-do stats and move away from a system created like 15+ years ago when the simulation mechanics were almost entirely different. But that's not the point...
I'd say there's no rush on testing at this stage. No way could we do it justice, then get enough changes made to the DB and stages in time for the 2022 MG season. We should roll with what was already put out in terms of version & changes. For 2023 MG season we probably should move on to PCM22 either way.
Plus we have slightly more pressing matters of either recruiting new managers, or re-working the Divisions so we don't end up with a pointless 7 team CT.
Plus if the game changes continue to move that far we'd need to look at the DB again overall, or make quite a few new stages, well then radical TMM has some ideas to re-set the game and truly embrace change haha
I think it's for the best to keep PCM20 for now until PCM22 is fully analyzed (unless PCM23 is superiror, but don't think so).
Regarding the number of teams in each division - so far we don't know how many teams will continue as apart from the announced departures of Festina, Mapei and Eurosport x GCN there are other teams that may not continue. We haven't heard from Project: Africa lately. Pas Normal Studios - Mikkeller is another team that hasn't been active for a while and this is a potential promotion candidate.
The CT division is already thin enough and there isn't that much of interest, so perhaps division relignment would be needed
![imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg](https://imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg)
