Ollfardh wrote:
in a world were all other countries have lost their respect in, let alone fear of, Russia.
Russia and Russian people do not threaten anyone! That's British and American politicians, they demonize Russia pursuing their own vested interests, fooling their electorate. But I have friends in GB and US who resist this propaganda because they can see and analyze. It is a pity that you consider Russia an enemy!
Just look at these idiots saying that: https://www.kuow....viser-says
It's them who wants another war not us. Wake up at last!
Edited by tomcat9 on 12-02-2022 19:56
Let's save the history of PCM together!
Just write me a PM if you have something for old PCM Editions (from 2005 to 2014) - databases, stages, shirts etc. and we'll share it.
Ollfardh wrote:
in a world were all other countries have lost their respect in, let alone fear of, Russia.
Russia and Russian people do not threaten anyone! That's British and American politicians, they demonize Russia pursuing their own vested interests, fooling their electorate. But I have friends in GB and US who resist this propaganda because they can see and analyze. It is a pity that you consider Russia an enemy!
So erm, I guess Crimea will soon be returned to Ukraine then? Seeing as you're all a bunch of nice guys who will respect international law and sovereign borders?
Enemy is also a bit too much. Russia hasn't wronged me personaly or anything. I'm just strongly against most of their policies, like this organised doping thing.
Let's put politics aside (though it's impossible to separate sports and politics these days) and switch to another gear - Norway's collosal failure in the cross-country skiing. The Russian athletes womped them in both relays. Norway's female quarted outside of Johaug was never going to challenge the Russians, Swedes or Finns, but were embarrassed (as well as Sweden and Finland) by inferior on paper German team. But while this relay was no match by design (since Norway's No. 2 - Heidi Weng, got the Rona), the men's relay (considered a well oiled machine) was blown to smithereens today by an equal in theory Russian quartet. And what was hoped to be a good old fashioned duel between two skiing powers turned into crushing defeat for the Norse by over a minute!!! The French relay that was deemed inferior finished 10 seconds behind. Outside Johaug's two gold medals and Klaebo's gold in the Sprint, the Olympics for the Norwegian cross-country department have been a failure. Thankfully the biathlon is Norway's true saving grace at these Olympics, but in the pursuit Ingrid Tandrevold, who after the 4th shooting was in position for a bronze medal, had barely made it to the finishing line and the footage of her collapsed on the snow body right after the finish line was really frightening.
Women's Ski Slopestyle & Snowboard Big Air were excellent competitions! Very close, massive air and tricks. Awesome contests, the Olympics at their very very best.
Speaking of the Big Air competitions, I find the location (being located on a steel mill site) very...surreal. And that has become the butt of many jokes.
ivaneurope wrote:
Speaking of the Big Air competitions, I find the location (being located on a steel mill site) very...surreal. And that has become the butt of many jokes.
It's something out of a sci-fi nightmare, but also very iconic and memorable. It's apparently also being turned into a wedding venue.
I remember, because i went to it, when the Red Bull X-Fighters staged an event at Battersea Towers in London, which was also a decommissioned power plant (now converted into insanely expensive flats no-one in Battersea can afford, so they are all rentals owned my millionaire landlords, but that's a different rant ).
And it reminds me of Formula E racing through the Excel Center, also in London.
It's better than just letting the space go to waste, i think.
Whelp, the Valieva case continues to be a mess. Reports are still no request to test the B-sample, although maybe this will be put in post-Olympics. Not taking this action would be unusual in a genuine case of innocence, or even in one of marginal levels of a minor drug. And now there's also suggestions (i can't seem to find actual first party sources for this) of two other non-banned heart drugs in her test as well.
Whilst not problematic in terms of doping, it opens up what i feel are more damaging questions about how the Russian Ice-Skating Union is handling the welfare of someone who is legally a child.
It's all a goddamn mess and i hate it! This is why i'm so heavily against legal minors being involved in Professional/Elite level sports. (plus, you know, drugs bad. But we're cycling fans so my assumption is everyone is doped to some level anyway).
______
In more entertaining news, can we talk about the USA Mens Ice Hockey team losing to Slovakia in the quarter-finals! I know that they have no NHL players, but this is still a huge win for Slovakia and this tournament got a lot more interesting. Especially with one of Sweden or Canada also exiting in the qf's, and then ROC vs the winner in the sf's. Fascinating!
TheManxMissile wrote:
Whelp, the Valieva case continues to be a mess. Reports are still no request to test the B-sample, although maybe this will be put in post-Olympics. Not taking this action would be unusual in a genuine case of innocence, or even in one of marginal levels of a minor drug. And now there's also suggestions (i can't seem to find actual first party sources for this) of two other non-banned heart drugs in her test as well.
Whilst not problematic in terms of doping, it opens up what i feel are more damaging questions about how the Russian Ice-Skating Union is handling the welfare of someone who is legally a child.
It's all a goddamn mess and i hate it! This is why i'm so heavily against legal minors being involved in Professional/Elite level sports. (plus, you know, drugs bad. But we're cycling fans so my assumption is everyone is doped to some level anyway).
Yeah, it's really getting ugly. She's 15 ffs, how could they let her compete in these circumstances?
When it comes to cycling, I can't think of one decent Russian cyclist since biological passports were introduced? That says it all really.
TheManxMissile wrote:
In more entertaining news, can we talk about the USA Mens Ice Hockey team losing to Slovakia in the quarter-finals! I know that they have no NHL players, but this is still a huge win for Slovakia and this tournament got a lot more interesting. Especially with one of Sweden or Canada also exiting in the qf's, and then ROC vs the winner in the sf's. Fascinating!
TheManxMissile wrote:
Whelp, the Valieva case continues to be a mess. Reports are still no request to test the B-sample, although maybe this will be put in post-Olympics. Not taking this action would be unusual in a genuine case of innocence, or even in one of marginal levels of a minor drug. And now there's also suggestions (i can't seem to find actual first party sources for this) of two other non-banned heart drugs in her test as well.
Whilst not problematic in terms of doping, it opens up what i feel are more damaging questions about how the Russian Ice-Skating Union is handling the welfare of someone who is legally a child.
It's all a goddamn mess and i hate it! This is why i'm so heavily against legal minors being involved in Professional/Elite level sports. (plus, you know, drugs bad. But we're cycling fans so my assumption is everyone is doped to some level anyway).
______
In more entertaining news, can we talk about the USA Mens Ice Hockey team losing to Slovakia in the quarter-finals! I know that they have no NHL players, but this is still a huge win for Slovakia and this tournament got a lot more interesting. Especially with one of Sweden or Canada also exiting in the qf's, and then ROC vs the winner in the sf's. Fascinating!
I fear for the psychological rammifications from this whole ordeal. Whether it's right or wrong to allow her to compete, Valieva has already been put to huge levels of stress. And she's only 15 no less. I've read somewhere that the IOC and IOC would increase gradually the minimal age for figure skaters (male or female) to participate in the Olympics. And this should be done for all Olympic sports - we also see children competing in those recently added snowboard and freestyle skiing events such as Big Air and Slopestyle, but imagine being 16 and you've been concussed during your first Olympic snowboarding event - the consequences of it will linger on for the rest of your life. And having children/teens compete in the Olympics (Summer or Winter) devalues the Youth Olympics which were created for this age group anyway.
Speaking of ice hockey, it'll take a miracle to take down the best the Russian hockey system has to offer. Finland will be the most likely challenger to top ROC off their perch, unless Slovakia pulls two David beats Goliath in a row.
TheManxMissile wrote:
In more entertaining news, can we talk about the USA Mens Ice Hockey team losing to Slovakia in the quarter-finals! I know that they have no NHL players, but this is still a huge win for Slovakia and this tournament got a lot more interesting. Especially with one of Sweden or Canada also exiting in the qf's, and then ROC vs the winner in the sf's. Fascinating!
I love it!
@Ollfardh: Alex Vlasov? Pavel Sivakov?
Yeah ok, they're both close to a breakthrough I guess. But compared to the "doping era" where you have guys like Berzin, Tonkov, Yekimov and Menchov it's definitely less now.
TheManxMissile wrote:
Whelp, the Valieva case continues to be a mess. Reports are still no request to test the B-sample, although maybe this will be put in post-Olympics. Not taking this action would be unusual in a genuine case of innocence, or even in one of marginal levels of a minor drug. And now there's also suggestions (i can't seem to find actual first party sources for this) of two other non-banned heart drugs in her test as well.
Whilst not problematic in terms of doping, it opens up what i feel are more damaging questions about how the Russian Ice-Skating Union is handling the welfare of someone who is legally a child.
It's all a goddamn mess and i hate it! This is why i'm so heavily against legal minors being involved in Professional/Elite level sports. (plus, you know, drugs bad. But we're cycling fans so my assumption is everyone is doped to some level anyway).
______
In more entertaining news, can we talk about the USA Mens Ice Hockey team losing to Slovakia in the quarter-finals! I know that they have no NHL players, but this is still a huge win for Slovakia and this tournament got a lot more interesting. Especially with one of Sweden or Canada also exiting in the qf's, and then ROC vs the winner in the sf's. Fascinating!
I fear for the psychological rammifications from this whole ordeal. Whether it's right or wrong to allow her to compete, Valieva has already been put to huge levels of stress. And she's only 15 no less. I've read somewhere that the IOC and IOC would increase gradually the minimal age for figure skaters (male or female) to participate in the Olympics. And this should be done for all Olympic sports - we also see children competing in those recently added snowboard and freestyle skiing events such as Big Air and Slopestyle, but imagine being 16 and you've been concussed during your first Olympic snowboarding event - the consequences of it will linger on for the rest of your life. And having children/teens compete in the Olympics (Summer or Winter) devalues the Youth Olympics which were created for this age group anyway.
Speaking of ice hockey, it'll take a miracle to take down the best the Russian hockey system has to offer. Finland will be the most likely challenger to top ROC off their perch, unless Slovakia pulls two David beats Goliath in a row.
I never understood why they allow children to compete in the Olympics. That amount of psychological pressure should not be put on people who are having their life decisions made entirely by their parents and may be severely damaged by being thrown into that dangerous, cutthroat culture while they're extremely young and impressionable.
Not to mention the fact that their appearance can distort the physical competition that the Olympics tries to measure. Look at skateboarding in the last Olympics and X Games. All the big trick competitions are won by prepubescent kids. not being they're more talented of physically gifted, but because they're tiny compared to the adults and can do "crazy" spins way more easily simply because of physics. The competition becomes being about the best 12-13 year old and not the best athlete.
It's crazy to me that the minimum age is not already 16, and honestly I think it should probably even be 18 or older.
And in the other news, obviously I'm not so happy that the U.S. lost in Men's hockey. But with the NHL not going, this was much less surprising.
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy
baseballlover312 wrote:
And in the other news, obviously I'm not so happy that the U.S. lost in Men's hockey. But with the NHL not going, this was much less surprising.
Well, people would've complained that the US and Canada would've had roughshod over the competition had the NHL allowed its players to compete. Now the ROC is the runaway favorite, because they can get the best Russian talent from the KHL (Russia's own version of the NHL) while the rest would have to fill holes with either players from vastly inferior leagues or college men.
I think to achieve balance the IOC, IIHF and the various leagues must come up with a solution that will prevent one or two nations being OP compared to the competition. IMO a limit of players called up from certain league(s) may be an option, but don't think it'll be implemented, because no one (let alone USA, Canada or Russia) would agree to restricting roster choices from certain leagues.
When it comes to cycling, I can't think of one decent Russian cyclist since biological passports were introduced? That says it all really.
What does that say, exactly ?
That every American are still doped? Or no American are doped?
Armstrong, Hamilton, Landis remember, and right now not that many?
Danish riders was doped too, but we are better now that back than, what does that say? Denmark are all cleaner that other rider….
Sadly I don’t really think it is all that simple.
I’m not defending anyone, it fair to be suspicious. Just careful it doesn’t turn into a form of “national racism”.
Edited by Tamijo on 16-02-2022 16:15
baseballlover312 wrote:
And in the other news, obviously I'm not so happy that the U.S. lost in Men's hockey. But with the NHL not going, this was much less surprising.
Well, people would've complained that the US and Canada would've had roughshod over the competition had the NHL allowed its players to compete. Now the ROC is the runaway favorite, because they can get the best Russian talent from the KHL (Russia's own version of the NHL) while the rest would have to fill holes with either players from vastly inferior leagues or college men.
I think to achieve balance the IOC, IIHF and the various leagues must come up with a solution that will prevent one or two nations being OP compared to the competition. IMO a limit of players called up from certain league(s) may be an option, but don't think it'll be implemented, because no one (let alone USA, Canada or Russia) would agree to restricting roster choices from certain leagues.
Tbf to the IOC et al the NHL did have agreements in place to release their players until Covid hit them yet again in December, which kind of forced their hand in terms of schedule & risk.
Honestly, i wouldn't mind seeing Ice Hockey drop out of the winter games entirely. It sits below the major domestic leagues in terms of importance whilst enduring a significant calendar clash. Let it go and bring in some Husky Racing or Ice Fishing or whatever.
When it comes to cycling, I can't think of one decent Russian cyclist since biological passports were introduced? That says it all really.
What does that say, exactly ?
That every American are still doped? Or no American are doped?
Armstrong, Hamilton, Landis remember, and right now not that many?
Danish riders was doped too, but we are better now that back than, what does that say? Denmark are all cleaner that other rider….
Sadly I don’t really think it is all that simple.
I’m not defending anyone, it fair to be suspicious. Just careful it doesn’t turn into a form of “national racism”.
Well for the Americans is was kinda obvious that is was a team wide doping program led by Bruyneel. Team disbanded, not that many good Americans left now. I think this is kinda logical to be honest.
For Denmark I think the improved cycling infrastructure from the last 20 years really helped the country. This can also be logicaly explained, no need for the D-word.
I agree I might be oversimplifying this, but I'll end with a statistic about Olympic Medals (so we return to the topic at hand ): Russia had to return 46 Olympic medals due to doping cases, which is about 1/3 of the total. That's 1 country of the 206 IOC countries responsible for 1/3 of the cases. So I'm kinda understanding while there won't be a medal ceremony for the figure skating.
TheManxMissile wrote:
Tbf to the IOC et al the NHL did have agreements in place to release their players until Covid hit them yet again in December, which kind of forced their hand in terms of schedule & risk.
Honestly, i wouldn't mind seeing Ice Hockey drop out of the winter games entirely. It sits below the major domestic leagues in terms of importance whilst enduring a significant calendar clash. Let it go and bring in some Husky Racing or Ice Fishing or whatever.
Ice Hockey is one of the cornerstone sports in the Winter Olympics and don't think it will be dropped. Sure, for some winning the Stanley Cup is more important, but winning an Olympic gold is also a career defining moment. It's a shame that Wayne Gretzky - "The Great One", only had one chance to win a gold medal. It'd have been on par with his 3 Stanley Cup wins with the Edmonton Oilers and the other individual awards he won.
But I've something controversial to say about another sport(s). Call me blasphemous, but I just can't connect with the new disciplines the IOC added in snowboarding, freestyle skiing in the Winter Games and the inclusion of skateboarding at the 2020/1 Tokyo Games and break dancing at the 2024 Paris Games. They're just too gimmicky and the Olympics versions of Big Air and Slopestyle for example pale in compairsion to their originals at the X-Games. Even the halfpipe - a discipline that has been part of the Olympics since 1998, is tamed compared to its X-Games counterpart (though IMO the Olympic halfpipe has gained following thanks to Shaun White). And several top snowboarders/skiiers in halfpipe, slopestyle and big air have refused to go at the Olympics, because in their eyes the IOC and FIS (as the governing body observing international skiing and snowboarding competitions) want to merely piggy back on their success, make those disciplines generic cookie-cutter disciplines and shove them down people's throats. And another thing that I've touched upon in previous post (and I agree with BBL's response) is that it kills the purpose of the Youth Olympics - what's the point of having Youth Olympics, when people aged 15-18 can compete in the regular Olympics anyway?
Maybe I'm too old school and perhaps don't share the values today's youth have. Though the IOC is trying to engage with the youth through social media - that's something positive.
I'm obviously biased, but the winter games are already way way below the summer games in terms of most people's attention. Way fewer events, way more of them are alike and take place in similar snowy settings. Many people in the world don't come from climates where these sports can even played reasonably, which is true of fewer people for the summer games as a whole. Dropping hockey, which is by far the most recognizable sport at the games for a few really major markets, would be completely untenable.
The NHL and NHLPA agreed to have an Olympic break this year and it was all set. Covid and the venue this year got in the way, but hopefully that's not going to be repeatable four years from now.
And worth noting that while Canada and the US would definitely be bigger favorites if the NHL played, a lot of other countries would also be getting their best players back, as most of them play in the NHL too. Russia is a bit of an exception since the KHL is their home league and definitely the second best league worldwide in terms of skill. More top Russians stay/go back to the KHL than other European leagues, and were therefore able to play this year. But even still, the best Russian players are almost always in the NHL. I don't think it would necessarily ruin the competition to have the NHL back in. Certain nations would be favored more, but the overall skill level of the whole competition would be raised, even for smaller nations.
Really, if the winter games want to stay relevant, I think they should really consider adding some of the indoor sports traditionally found in the summer games. i.e. basketball. Would be hard to get the top leagues on board with scheduling for it, but basketball is a winter sport at it's highest level anyway, and it would balance the games out a lot.
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy
![imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg](https://imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg)
). 
