I do not understand how it is possible. No major overhaul respect to the previous edition and here we go again with bugs and "strange" gameplay. Almost every year it is the same
vino93 wrote:
I do not understand how it is possible. No major overhaul respect to the previous edition and here we go again with bugs and "strange" gameplay. Almost every year it is the same
That's quite simple: Cyanide studio has no any rivalry with other developers so they can fool players easily. However there are many negative reviews even from loyal players and it's a sign to Cyanide. Will they heed? I'm not sure about it.
Let's save the history of PCM together!
Just write me a PM if you have something for old PCM Editions (from 2005 to 2014) - databases, stages, shirts etc. and we'll share it.
I do not understand how it is possible. No major overhaul respect to the previous edition and here we go again with bugs and "strange" gameplay. Almost every year it is the same
Judging by the SteamDB Info, the public release have the same ID of the beta.
Even with this, it's hideous in how some bugs fixed over the years, appears in random editions every time.
And you know the things will end on this, when they trailer for PCM, it's Tour De France version on background.
Reading this thread is like reading similar threads every year. It makes me so sad. I gave up buying after 2017 and have been hoping (silly me) for some version hitting it off with players.
Could it be so bad that the blokes (they are French) have almost no check on english spoken sites like this. I often over the years collected nice playermade stages on LeGruppetto but read little on how they are taking this hapless evolving game.
I start to think Cyanide is every year banging their chest in another fine version of PCM, with of course some smaller bugs.
Haven't been on their main website forum for years, but some 4-5 years ago I tried and never got any reply or hardly lifesign from any of the developers.
My sad conclusion is their world is around them and not anywhere outside their offices. Having the only cycling game on the market they manage to keep a solid costumerbase every year, so they don't make big changes in the programming. Since when they do the bugs keeps coming fast and quick.
Hey just compare FM development to this for the last 15 years. So sad.
Gosh, we got so many minor stuff Cyanide could have fixed. You might know my issue over the years with XML and intermediate sprints and KOMs. They kept the same formula every year and as I understand they might not even alter it after both Giro and TDF put on an even more complicated setup the last 3-5 years. If they can't go for tiny details how can we expect they can handle complex AI handling of things on the road.
Then I have often wanted a more complex manager part in the game. After all it's named a Managergame. So many things could be addressed prio to the race starts, as a DS would direct pre-race and then from the car during the race. Dedicated last lead-off guy, captain on the road, what other team to watch and react too, of course what specific cyclist should be kept an eye on during the race. We need of course that extra stat for genuine road-captains, and that extra developed stat on best leadout. Just some thoughts.
We got the Be a Pro-Cyclist for the arcade players, but need a FM manager setup for the ones riding in the car behind. Screaming in the mikes and hoping your team listening and carry out the directives.
This is more like playing football on the FIFA game. You get my drift ?
clamel wrote:
Haven't been on their main website forum for years, but some 4-5 years ago I tried and never got any reply or hardly lifesign from any of the developers.
There's no longer the official forum, they've moved to a Discord server. But it's really bad. They have a supposed community manager who very rarely communicates anything. Tons of bug reports, no reactions. So many things that could be fixed incredibly easily. There's a bug in the xml files that makes it so that setting a lead-out rider actually hurts your sprinter in quick sim - been known for years, is fixed in 10 minutes (we have fixed it in our db), nothing. The Giro classification files, as you mentioned, are from years ago, no changes whatsoever (again, took me less than half an hour to update them for our DB, eventhough some of the more complicated aspects are impossible to recreate). This year, they even went so far and didn't even include the 2020 palmares on rider profiles, which, yeah, is tedious, but it took me maybe 3-4 hours. They had one major selling point for this new version, which was the inclusion of the European Championships, and that single thing is still not playable three weeks after the release. It's incredible.
Not to mention that neither we as a database team, nor for instance the PCMWorld database team, get any free game keys for our work. Like, our Expansion Pack from last year has more than 12k downloads. Their Steam workshop DB for PCM20 had something like 14k subscriptions. We regularly get feedback that people wouldn't buy the game if not for our work. We spend literal hundreds of hours on these databases, quite possibly more than any of the developers, given the state of the game. Nothing. Not even an answer when we asked.
Benji Naesen, one of the biggest English speaking Youtubers for the game, was offered a few keys for a giveaway and straightup refused because he was so pissed with the publishers (Thread).
The game has so much potential and the community around it is really good, for the most part at least. So many dedicated people. And yet, this is what we get ...
clamel wrote:
Hey just compare FM development to this for the last 15 years. So sad.
A good example. I like old FM (2007, 2010, 2012, 2014), but present FM editions have the same AI without degradation. Unlike present PCM.
clamel wrote:
Then I have often wanted a more complex manager part in the game.
We got the Be a Pro-Cyclist for the arcade players, but need a FM manager setup for the ones riding in the car behind. Screaming in the mikes and hoping your team listening and carry out the directives.
Yeah, me too I'm waiting a management game for years because it's Pro Cycling MANAGER, not simulator. Cyanide added some management features but partly (f.e. riders auto control).
cunego59 wrote:
Not to mention that neither we as a database team, nor for instance the PCMWorld database team, get any free game keys for our work.
That's very strange because PCM Daily DB was the only reason for my playing PCM 2010, 2011, 2014, 2016, 2017 & 2020 I bought.
Edited by tomcat9 on 07-07-2021 21:02
Let's save the history of PCM together!
Just write me a PM if you have something for old PCM Editions (from 2005 to 2014) - databases, stages, shirts etc. and we'll share it.
Looks like PCM is busy being PCM. In other words, not being reasonably bug free during TdF, more like the Vuelta.
I agree so much about the game having a lot of potential. People will buy niche games if they're original in style and well done and PCM is as original a sports game as you can get. The "well done" part, well...
Apart from this year I think I've bought them all since 2012 and yes, a lot of them had bad AI and ALL of them had gamebreaking bugs at launch. So nothing's new.
I remember 2013 being OK (ish) and one or two others (lost track), and one or two were an absolute garbage pile for AI.
All they have to do is set the AI to the best format they ever had (has the engine actually changed in 10 years????) There have been new attributes or anything added. Then just tweak it. I've seen a lot of people say 2011 was great but I never had that.
And yes - do a better job of adding features to the team manager mode. That should be the core mode and to be honest, it's lame - the 3D race saves the game. It's not hard - Football manager, OOTP Baseball have so many features that are transferrable. They're trying to do it with some of the stuff (rider morale etc) but its not quite immersive enough. And does the technical side around the bike development actually do anything???
Looks like PCM is busy being PCM. In other words, not being reasonably bug free during TdF, more like the Vuelta.
I agree so much about the game having a lot of potential. People will buy niche games if they're original in style and well done and PCM is as original a sports game as you can get. The "well done" part, well...
Apart from this year I think I've bought them all since 2012 and yes, a lot of them had bad AI and ALL of them had gamebreaking bugs at launch. So nothing's new.
I remember 2013 being OK (ish) and one or two others (lost track), and one or two were an absolute garbage pile for AI.
All they have to do is set the AI to the best format they ever had (has the engine actually changed in 10 years????) There have been new attributes or anything added. Then just tweak it. I've seen a lot of people say 2011 was great but I never had that.
And yes - do a better job of adding features to the team manager mode. That should be the core mode and to be honest, it's lame - the 3D race saves the game. It's not hard - Football manager, OOTP Baseball have so many features that are transferrable. They're trying to do it with some of the stuff (rider morale etc) but its not quite immersive enough. And does the technical side around the bike development actually do anything???
cyanide need to thank all the db makers. without it , this game would be dead already.
this peaked on 06 and after that it's more bad editions than good ones.
When the "real" season comes to an end I always look over to this game and hopes it has moved forward.
What I spotted on Youtube with the WorldDB as a base got me scared.
A bloke (benjiNaesen) had a run with a pro-cont team and the results was staggering. Even making it to win the Giro.
But the biggest setback was that in the Giro 2-3 teams joined with 6-7 riders.
Can you image in real life that would happen ???
One of the big goals for the season and for one or another reason they can't field a full team to start. With same TTT further in for that Giro it could get really messy, but I never had the urge to watch that far.
Sadly I concluded that with many other crazy bugs (as always) this was the reason tipping me over.
Now I might be wrong on this but I downloaded a package with someone tried to make some Classifications (as I have done in the past). Of course only on the big races and left out all the work I did for minor stage races.
The scary thing was that Cyanide haven't done anything on this, even if races like TDF and Giro have had many changes in how they hand out points.
Not talking about the basic but the issue in Giro like having different sprint points depending on what kind of stage it is, TDF made changes too with some sprints having different points and even bonus seconds. This can't be done in the formula Cyanide picked years ago and they still haven't seen that.
Are they totally blind ????????????
That can't be difficult to add in the game.
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