First guy I propose is a Uruguayan time trialist, who was the U23 TT NC at 20 years old. Doesn't race a lot, but he did compete in the NC's three months ago as well. I'd like to see a South American time trialist, and since Uruguay lacks riders, he seems to be a nice new guy. I propose to make him a decent time trialist with okay rouleur skills but also nothing too impressive, whereas his clear lack of climbing and punching capacities make him far from overpowered.
Fagundez
Eric Antonio
67
60
59
69
69
68
64
62
66
70
65
67
69
URU
SA
1.00
19
8
1998
5
Fagundez
Eric Antonio
74
60
60
78
74
74
71
62
71
73
65
68
78
URU
SA
4.100
19
8
1998
5
Track-TT
Fagundez
Eric Antonio
74
61
62
78
74
75
71
62
66
70
70
68
78
URU
SA
4.100
19
8
1998
5
time trial
Alex Julajuj
Next rider is also a decent time trialist, but will never come close to winning a time trial himself. He's the kind of rider that even gets overlooked in similar cases from other regions in this db, but is a nice addition for Guatemala that only has one active rider in the game at the moment. All in all, he could be a fun domestique for any team to have.
With my long response on general stuff out of the way, I present you with the next phenom of professional cycling. Or, well, the next rider from Curacao to exist and hopefully sign a contract.
Goldwijnn Cannister* - Age 22
*There's some differences in his name spelling by source I find it listed as "Goldwijnn" most places, but he seems to spell it "Goldwynn."
Okay, well. That's not much either I guess. But we at least have confirmation that he exists. He got DNF in Europe in 2019, and also managed to finish (top 10) in what I believe is the Curacao RR NC at only 16 years old in 2016! So that's pretty impressive.
Alright, but what kind of rider is he? Well, since we don't have results to go by, we have to use other means.
He was signed in a French PCM story. Google Translate describes him here as, "Possessing a small burst of speed, he reinforces the sprint pole, with mainly the role of launcher." Using my extremely good inference skills, I believe this makes him a leadout man. Where this guy got that information, I have no idea.
Lucky for us, this is corroborated by his personal Instagram page, where he has done some documentation of his training. There are videos on here of him practicing sprints, so that's confirmed on the list. He also has moved to the Netherlands and has at least one video where he's on very refined cobblestones, but still cobblestones! He also posted about doing some off-road training, so he clearly doesn't need a smooth surface entirely. There are pictures of him on hills and on his TT bike too. He even posts about getting 3rd and 6th in some races, although I'm not quite sure what those races were or what the profiles were like.
There's evidence he should have somewhat low resistance since, and I quote from a caption, "Goldwynn and The WIND isn't a match." So he's not the kind of fighter you want pulling for you in the crosswinds I guess. I wouldn't put him too low though since in general we're phasing out very low resistance guys.
Alright, so anyway, he's what I got so far for him:
Surname
First
Fl
Mo
Hl
TT
St
Rs
Rc
Cb
Sp
Ac
Ft
Dh
Pl
Lvl
Points
Pot
Cannister
Goldwijnn
67
61
65
64
68
63
65
66
66
70
70
62
66
1
0
6
Cannister
Goldwijnn
74
62
68
64
75
66
77
71
75
78
70
63
66
4
100
6
Spr
Cannister
Goldwijnn
74
61
68
64
76
70
68
75
73
71
71
63
66
4
100
6
Cob
Cannister
Goldwijnn
74
61
68
65
71
70
70
66
75
78
70
63
74
4
100
6
T-Spr
Cannister
Goldwijnn
74
62
68
64
75
68
75
73
75
74
70
63
66
4
100
6
Combo1
Cannister
Goldwijnn
74
61
68
64
76
68
70
73
73
75
71
63
66
4
100
6
Combo2
Surname
First
Fl
Mo
Hl
TT
St
Rs
Rc
Cb
Sp
Ac
Ft
Dh
Pl
Lvl
Points
Pot
Cannister
Goldwijnn
69
62
66
65
70
66
67
68
68
71
70
62
68
1
0
3
Cannister
Goldwijnn
74
62
67
65
75
67
76
71
75
78
70
62
68
4
100
3
Spr
Cannister
Goldwijnn
74
62
67
65
75
70
68
75
72
71
70
62
68
4
100
3
Cob
Cannister
Goldwijnn
74
62
67
65
71
71
70
68
75
78
70
62
73
4
100
3
T-Spr
I've made two different pathways for him, one as Pot. 6, and one as at Pot. 3, both ending up around the same place. I kind of like the idea of him being weaker as a young talent with a lot of potential to grow in terms of his personal story, but it might be better to go low potential/higher base stats so that we could fool around and make him more interesting, like you guys did with Sulvaran.
My thought process is that to my best knowledge, he is a sprinter, but as cobbles guys are rare this year, and he definitely has at least been on them before, might as well make him a hybrid. Low resistance, but he has that "burst of speed," so high acceleration. No other stat should be high enough to prioritized over sprint or cobbles, but he's not glaringly weak anywhere either. You could make a case for making him weaker in mountain though.
I think if we approximate to somewhere around where I've put him, you get a situation where either cobbles or sprint development is somewhat viable, and even a combination might be ideal. That is always a cool situation for planning imo. He'll end up similar to some other riders in the DB, but there are several paths to choose. As another idea, if for DB health purposes we want him to be a pure cobbler instead, we could decrease his sprint and up his acceleration (since he wouldn't get the sprint boosts anymore). That could also be an interesting dynamic to see play out, and might fill a need.
Obviously I'm not tied to making him that strong in the final version, and he can be added however you guys see fit. It would be hypocritical for me to lambast the example riders as being too strong for inflation control, and then a few hours later suggest that very thing for guys I want. But it would be nice to have him included in some capacity, and maybe even a couple of other worse domestiques could join him. More Curacao riders in the DB would make sense given that they now are co-sponsoring a team - one that might be headed to PCT next year.
First of all, huge thanks for your massive work, jph! Your list really gives a great feeling of what could be possible, and it's definitely a great base for discussions.
However, I must say that I don't like the Swiss additions as they're proposed right now. It's not just talents added this year, but I actually don't see a bright future for Swiss cycling in ManGame - with three Switzerland-focused teams, that's not very cool.
I agree that there currently are some great Swiss riders in the DB. Schelling already is a great climber, Frankiny, Stüssi and Schir are already decent and can be trained for at least three more years. So that generation is almost over-represented. However, after them there's just Mäder, who'll max at 77Mo (70Hi, probably), and then there's close to nothing. Definitely a void preparing if we don't get some additions in the next few years.
Things are looking brighter for the hills, where Müller will max this year and probably get up to 80Hi - at 25 years. He's a pure puncheur with quite some weaknesses, though. Hirschi will max at 79Hi in 2 years (I guess), as a much more well-rounded rider. Then there's Frankiny, but for him Mo training looks more likely. But again, once they are all gone, there will be Suter and Froidevaux, who could get to 77 and 76Hi respectively. So for the moment it looks great - and if the goal is indeed to reduce the number of 78+ maxing riders, then we'll get there with the Swiss guys in a few years.
In terms of TT, there currently are Dillier (80) - who can't be trained any longer, followed by Küng (77) and Stüssi (75), who both could be trained - but I'm not sure it makes a lot of sense. Then - the big void. Mäder will reach 75 once maxed, but then there's nothing. At least if I choose to take Bissegger the sprinter way (which is pretty likely). Which of course means no Swiss GC rider in the making, either (besides Mäder). For me, that's a pretty big deal.
We do have some good cobblers right now, with especially Spengler (83), but as well Grand and Bohli (77). Schäppi will max this year at 76, and Jacobs should eventually max at 78. The issue here is rather the UBS monopoly of Swiss cobblers, but that's a different story. So I guess here we're pretty fine for the moment.
The last category I took a look at are the sprinters. Obviously, we don't have a world-class sprinter right now, with Page and Aregger both being kind of good leadouts (78Spr). Page can be trained for the next three years, so someone with a lot of money might get something out of him. But then, there's basically just Bissegger, who can reach the same level when taken down the sprinter way (and there's my problem: he'd be the best Swiss TTer or the best Swiss sprinter in a few years - tough choice...). But with the amount of 80+ sprinters, a 78Spr guy is pretty lost.
Overall, there's none of the Swiss talents added in the last few years that will max at 80+ in a main stat, and only one (Hirschi) will reach 79. Having a few more of those from time to time wouldn't hurt - especially given the really good IRL results lately. Of course, my point of view is heavily biased, so a more neutral point of view would be great to hear.
I don't have any propositions ready, but I'll definitely scan the results of Swiss youngsters and maybe come up with one or two more suggestions. Be they realistic or not
Fabianski wrote:
However, I must say that I don't like the Swiss additions as they're proposed right now. It's not just talents added this year, but I actually don't see a bright future for Swiss cycling in ManGame - with three Switzerland-focused teams, that's not very cool.
I'm pretty sure there are plenty other nations far worse off than Switzerland.
Besides that's what this thread is about. To make your own suggestions about riders from nations you want to add and I don't see a reason why they shouldn't be added, as long as there isn't anyone game breaking and we don't add too many on the whole, for inflation issues.
So first of all, I agree with baseballs first post, in its entirety.
Also, I know jph said his suggestions were based on the daily db, so probably still a little too high, but I think we should be starting to add riders on a 73 to 79 curve each season, with maybe one or two exceptions maxing at 80.
If we decided to refrain from adding weaker riders now I think we might run into a weird "crossover period" where more 33+ riders are signed than 21 year olds and then this and the next few age groups wont max until the same time as 2001/2's. If we add atleast a few now, then we have the possibility CT teams pick some of them up and they begin to give us a lower baseline sooner. And if we continue to delete riders that have been Free Agents for over a season, then having more younger options might also help to speed up that process as well.
Rider Stats
Perhaps this is more a suggestion for the Daily db, but having looked at a lot of Colombian riders results the last few weeks thanks to my 21 and Done pick, Didier Merchan is a lot closer to Pira in climbing ability imo, if not better. He's outperformed Pira in every race they've ridden together prior to this years Sr. Tour of Colombia.
I've found a video of Stage 7 of the Tour of Colombia, which was a wet and rainy day, and while my spanish isn't very good, it seems like the favourites attacked early and were never caught again, with the last 60km of the stage being a descent. Merchan is Number 53, and can be seen at 10:25, where he seems to be in the lead group over the top of the climb. On the descent he just disappears, which leads me to believe he crashed or is just a terrible descender. His DNF the next stage, makes me think it was more likely a crash, especially as he came 2nd in the U23 Tour of Colombia just a week earlier.
In general I think Ardilla, Pira, and Buitrago are perhaps a bit too strong, atleast for the MG (especially as they are all Colombian, and I feel we like to give lots of countries a chance at a strong rider), and same can definitely be said for Zwiehoff and Palzer who I dont really get how they justify those stats, considering they raced other disciplines previously and so far have no results to suggest they should be anywhere near those stats and come from countries with loads of talents already. If anything we should be giving someone who is more likely a "sure thing" like Evenepoel or Arensman the top stats of each age group.
He looks to be possibly the most talented Japanese rider in a while. Very strong results in Asian Championships in both ITT and punchy sprint results, by the looks of it. Beat Leknessund, Idar Andersen, Mayrhofer, Quinn, Fedorov, etc. in a hilly prologue. For comparison, he looks a lot stronger than Yuttana Mano or Kuboki.
I have given him pretty high stats, but I also feel like a lot of other "unrealistic countries" have been given OP riders (which I have definitely benefited from in the past, but less so recently). If we compare Asian riders to African riders in the db, though, Africa still seems to be getting many top level riders, while Asian countries have seen a lot fewer with Giddich, Hsu and Ranaweera being the only only significant ones recently.
Matsuda seems to be one of the stronger Japanese riders in a while, and has performed at ITTs, sprints and hill stages, so I feel he should be strong on hills, TTs and sprints in the MG, as a versatile rider. I played around with lower POT, but then he doesn't really get any SPR or Hill if you train him for TTs, and vice versa, so I've kept it like this to try and show what kind of rider he is, if a little strong.
Interestingly, I cant seem to find what team he rides on (if any) this year, despite riding for the same amateur team as Simon Carr last season, so he could have been an interesting rider for EF.
Spoiler
ID
Surname
First nam
Fl
Mo
Hl
TT
St
Rs
Rc
Cb
Sp
Ac
Ft
Dh
Pl
Nat.
Cont.
XP Level
XP Points
D
M
Year
Pot
x
Matsuda
Shoi
69
65
69
68
65
70
60
60
67
69
60
63
70
JPN
AS
1
0
13
9
1999
5
76
65
70
77
70
76
67
60
72
72
60
64
79
track TT
I guess you could probably inverse the PRL and TT stats, to decrease the chances of him being trained in Track-SPR, since we are kind of trying to reduce the number of 77-79 Sprinters.
I've only shown the one training method, but I imagine he might be trained using a combination, if one manager wants a hilly TTer, or if a different manager wants a hilly sprinter etc. I think ideally he should be a bit better in hill, and a little worse in TT stats (than I've suggested), but I cant figure out how to make him more versatile with his stat gains, rather than having a manager simply training him in either hill or TT and as I've got it now. One more hill stat and one less PRL/TT at lvl 1.00 and he'd almost definitely be trained in hill by most I feel.
Additionally, pretty much all decent Asian TTers are 29 or older apart from Leung and Onodera, and/or they all are pretty one dimensional. so gaining a strong and versatile TT rider would I'm sure be appreciated by Asian focused teams.
I'm back with some more riders from less popular Latin American countries!
Henry Alberto Sam
Proposed this guy as well last year, but he was still too young. He has won some time trial (youth) championships and stages, and in the adult peloton managed to get some respectable and consistent results. He is also a track racer, who dreams to be a lawyer one day. He might not become a lawyer, but he could become an interesting time trialist, and even more so a prologue rider. Not the best mountain rider, but his results show he is far from the worst either. Could be something like this (Track-TT):
Sam
Henry Alberto
69
65
65
70
70
68
67
58
68
69
72
68
71
GUA
NA
1.00
24
5
1999
4
Sam
Henry Alberto
76
65
66
77
75
74
72
58
73
72
72
68
78
GUA
NA
4.100
24
5
1999
4
Henry Antonio Rojas
Also not a lot of Nicaraguans in the database, so I present you the current U23 RR and TT champion! He likes to jump on his mountainbike from time to time, as he likes hills and dirt/cobbles. This is an example of him following the classics route:
Rojas
Henry Antonio
66
66
68
62
69
67
67
68
65
69
67
69
65
NIC
NA
1.00
23
6
1999
5
Rojas
Henry Antonio
73
66
73
62
74
71
70
75
65
70
75
70
65
NIC
NA
4.100
23
6
1999
5
Guillermo Andres Beltran
As the Beltran we all know is getting older, it's time for a replacement. Not Colombian, but Chilean this time. He is a decent climber and puncheur, but not that strong in anything else. Could be an okay rider following the Climberv1 route.
First of all, I agree with the vast majority of what bbl has said, especially in regard to older riders. If there isn't an effort to cultivate talent to fill the roles a team needs, then they should suffer for it - not just be instantaneously rescued by the addition of an already maxed rider. Why would anybody spend resources on developing domestiques if they can just magically appear instead?
Further, I'm in favour of flattening the distribution of talents because the top talents are likely to be spread by differences in training. Here's a qucik comparison to give an idea of what I'm thinking, using the climbers:
Stat
/Original
/Adjusted
Proposed
81
2
0
0
80
2
1
0-1
79
5
1
1-2
78
2
2
2
77
2
3
2
76
10
3
3
75
11
4
4
74
14
5
5
We could even marginally boost the number of riders at the higher end under the presumption that they will be spread by training. Under the current format it is almost certain that the 80-stat will be trained to 82+, and the 79 stat to at least 80 with the possibiltiy of also hitting 82+. There should be at least two more in the 77-78 range also being shoved up ito 79-80. In theory this should give us a nice spread. Given time needed for training, between the 48 P(C)T teams there should be:
WITH TRAINING
PRE-TRAINING
5+ riders @ 82+
8 @ 80
8+ riders @ 80-81 (less only where more higher)
8 @ 79
8+ riders @ 79 (as above)
16 @ 78
10+ riders @ 78 (as above)
16 @ 77
16+ riders @ 77 (as above)
24 @ 76
24+ riders @ 76 (as above)
32 @ 75
40~ riders @ 75 (inclusive of developing riders)
40 @ 74
50~ riders @ 74 (inclusive of developing riders)
This means that at best there will be PCT teams with leader son a terrain who are only reaching 76 in their main stat. This should in theory mean that there is strong competition between PT and CT teams for 75-77 riders necessary to act as superdomestiques/leaders. For the benefit of CT teams it might be useful to flatten the lesser curve even more, but that might be too radical.
Just a quick note from me: If we now keep those rider stats down exclusively, riders like Herklotz, Lopez and Pedersen will dominate for years without competition. Almost nobody would train a 77-78 guy if he's not awesomely well rounded, cause why would they? If there is no sufficient top-level talent influx we just monopolize the great ones, which seems worse than the stat-inflation "problem".
I feel obliged to suggest an Irish rider as I don't see any in the suggestions and the youngest one in the Db is 23/24. He is born in 2000.
Ben Healy is Irish Champ and has won a Stage in Avenir and Rode de l'Isard. He seems to excel in hills but he is U23 TT Champ too and competitive over week long races
Croatia14 wrote:
Just a quick note from me: If we now keep those rider stats down exclusively, riders like Herklotz, Lopez and Pedersen will dominate for years without competition. Almost nobody would train a 77-78 guy if he's not awesomely well rounded, cause why would they? If there is no sufficient top-level talent influx we just monopolize the great ones, which seems worse than the stat-inflation "problem".
I agree.
Can`t confirm any talents or stats yet as I still need a proper look as well.
But I think it`s possible to get a good mix in between. The general max stats can be lowered while still have riders strong enough to avoid such monopol in 4-5 years.
e.g. riders like Pidcock.
That said, as usual MG is not RL and this could lead to some riders below RL stats while others are above their stats as also countries/teams from a country play a role in MG World.
e.g. is Bardet/Latour couple years ago in France as Lecuisinier basically took their spot in the MG.
Or Dumoulin in the Netherlands as Keizer kind of had his spot in the MG.
And same might be as well for Germany, where Herklotz is having the Buchmann spot, while Buchmann has the Schachmann spot and so on.
So while the RL stats usually are a good indicator, what the rider can look like, the MG will adjust those as needed.
More examples might be Colombia. Last 1-2 years they got lots of huge talent as they are kind of dominating in real with new talents. Bernal, Sosa, Higuita, Martinez were all added with pretty good stats. Even though some already adjusted due to the numbers of strong additions as in other years Sosa might have gone higher of course.
This might actually lead to Ardila not being one of the top talents added this year as another Colombian.
Instead another Nation might get this spot, where it`s more needed and a climbing talent is on the list.
I agree with Fabianski about the MG Nations, that need to play a role as well. Not sure it`s Switzerland though as despite 3 teams, the talents added there weren`t too weak and some (Spengler) as well above their RL quality. And the UBS monopoly is not ideal for the other teams but the talents are there in theory. That`s not saying, there won`t be decent Suisse riders this year neither.
In general. If you are missing riders from some countries. Suggesting them is only/best chance to see them added. e.g. if no one is suggesting a rider from Malaysia, chances are high, there won`t be a new addition. This obviously goes mainly for the smaller Nations that are not that much on the RL spot. e.g. as done with the Japanese, Guatemala riders.
I think there should be a good mix between realism and MG countries, Switzerland should not get the best riders in the world just because we have 3 Swiss teams, nor should for example Evenepoel be given bad stats just because there are a lot of good Belgian riders already.
In general I feel there are too many upper 70s riders from obscure cycling nations. People should be able to fill their team with a few riders from their home nation, yes, but these should be domestiques, not team leaders.
I also agree with Croatia that adding too few talents would result in a few dominating riders, but especially on the cobbles I don't see much coming up, mostly due to the Covid pandemic cancelling most of the U23 calendar.
Shevchenko is 2018 U23 RR champion (Born 23rd October 1999). By the looks of things he beat Nikulin (Born 17th February 1999) in a sprint a deux. Both seem fairly capable rouleurs, also backed up by their not too great, but not bad results in the NC ITT.
Other than this info they are very mediocre at best, racing in Turkey for top 100 ranks...
Ollfardh wrote:
I think there should be a good mix between realism and MG countries, Switzerland should not get the best riders in the world just because we have 3 Swiss teams, nor should for example Evenepoel be given bad stats just because there are a lot of good Belgian riders already.
In general I feel there are too many upper 70s riders from obscure cycling nations. People should be able to fill their team with a few riders from their home nation, yes, but these should be domestiques, not team leaders.
I also agree with Croatia that adding too few talents would result in a few dominating riders, but especially on the cobbles I don't see much coming up, mostly due to the Covid pandemic cancelling most of the U23 calendar.
I agree with this sentiment. Obscure nations should probably have their few notable riders stretched into borderline leaders and some more domestiques should be made viable for filling out teams - an increase in cycling potential from those countries makes sense in a universe where their nation is sponsoring cycling teams. However, there is no need to go so far as to try to craft a top leader from scratch for every obscure nation. As much as I'd like an 80+ main stat Curacao representative in the DB, it really just shouldn't happen any time soon.
As far as Croatia's point, I think we're on the same page to an extent. As I've stated before, I think inflation is mainly an issue in the 75-79 range right now, as the top levels are slowly filtering out based on the measures we've already taken. Having a few 80 main stat guys each year is not really the problem, and those guys will compete with the best of the best after training. In fact, having a couple of those guys will help us spread out the matrix easier.
However, I kind of disagree that lack of competition at the top is necessarily a game breaker. I think the opposite effect of too many guys at the same level is worse. At that top level you speak of, value can be properly assessed by wages and fees. If Herklotz is that much better than the competition, we can make his wages that much better than the competition, and the market will help. This is part of why inflation is worse at the bottom. The scoring potential of a 78 sprinter can't match his wages because he can be replaced from FA for 50k at all times, even if his OVl and scoring are higher. Ont he contrary, there would be no replacement for Herklotz as a single rider, so that wouldn't be an issue. Herklotz would dominate his races, but maybe buying two lesser leaders with the same money could almost make up for it in the end, so the game isn't completely unbalanced as a whole. It would only make some races a little more predictable.
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy
Speaking about riders from obscure nations (I prefer the term less popular nations ), I'll give you some more talents from countries that haven't seen any recently. Just as with the others I try to keep most of them quite low in stats (ranging from 73-76 in main stats) except for 2 tt'ists I posted who where 78 and 77. As the TT stat is not really inflated in the DB (same with cobbles), I think proposing some 78'ers is okay, knowing that most (if not all) of them won't actually be accepted like this
Bryan Fernando Mendoza
May I present you, the future of El Salvadorian cycling. The number three of the last El Salvadorian professional road race and U23 ITT. His last result before that was fourteenth in the Gran Premio Chapin in Guatemala, a race that goes up and down and is around 220k. He finished high for such a young guy over that distance, proving his ability to climb and suffer. You don't just finish third in the U23 El Salvador ITT without being a decent time trialist, so he's decent against the clock as well. One big problem is that he seems to be a very old guy looking at his hill and acceleration, as he is simply not made for the short bursts of power, but rather for the work of the long(er) haul.
Mendoza
Bryan Fernando
67
69
63
68
69
69
69
55
62
66
67
67
67
SLV
NA
1.00
18
8
1998
4
Mendoza
Bryan Fernando
68
76
68
75
74
74
76
55
62
67
68
67
74
SLV
NA
4.100
18
8
1998
4
Joseph Ivan Samudio
What we all need and obviously want to see is a Panamese nerfed version of Alain Quispe. Just as bad uphill and in time trials, but a rider who never stops fighting and is a strong rouleur (also how he won the U23 nc road race), with okay physical stats.
Samudio
Joseph Ivan
69
53
59
63
69
67
65
64
65
66
71
60
66
PAN
NA
1.00
24
8
1999
4
Samudio
Joseph Ivan
77
53
60
63
74
71
68
65
68
71
78
63
66
PAN
NA
4.100
24
8
1999
4
Leonardo Henrique Finkler
Leonardo is a very interesting talent. He has won the junior Panamerican championships and got a decent 26th place at the junior WC in Norway a couple of years ago, where number 25 was Tom Pidcock. When he was only 19 he managed to finish top-7 in both the RR and TT of the Brazilian NC's. He's been improving steadily by riding in Argentina and Chile meanwhile, and hopes to become Brazil's leading puncheur and cyclist in general. Would be a nice addition to the game, as not only Los Pollos Hermanos has a Brazilian clothing sponsor, it would be nice for any Latin American team to welcome a young Brazilian, as most noteworthy Brazilians are getting closer to their decline.
A lot of what I'm about to say has been said before in this thread, but I'll just add my two cents.
The main priority for this year's round of new rider additions should be deflating the database. I'd like to see an extremely low amount of new riders that max out in the 75 to 80 range in a main stat. And yes, this will hurt. It means that we can't cater to every single national focus and make sure that it has a viable base of quality riders. But in my opinion that is fine.
In the past people would decide to create a team with 90% riders from a relatively obscure nation and the game would adapt to them by churning out a bunch of riders that max with main stats in the 75 to 80 range over a couple of seasons.
Let's turn it around.
Let's create a healthy database that plays well with PCM and adapt our national focus choices to that database. It might mean that someone's preferred single nation is not viable long-term. But it's always possible to add a second nation or turn it into a regional focus.
Ollfardh wrote:
I think there should be a good mix between realism and MG countries, Switzerland should not get the best riders in the world just because we have 3 Swiss teams, nor should for example Evenepoel be given bad stats just because there are a lot of good Belgian riders already.
In general I feel there are too many upper 70s riders from obscure cycling nations. People should be able to fill their team with a few riders from their home nation, yes, but these should be domestiques, not team leaders.
I also agree with Croatia that adding too few talents would result in a few dominating riders, but especially on the cobbles I don't see much coming up, mostly due to the Covid pandemic cancelling most of the U23 calendar.
However, I kind of disagree that lack of competition at the top is necessarily a game breaker. I think the opposite effect of too many guys at the same level is worse. At that top level you speak of, value can be properly assessed by wages and fees. If Herklotz is that much better than the competition, we can make his wages that much better than the competition, and the market will help. This is part of why inflation is worse at the bottom. The scoring potential of a 78 sprinter can't match his wages because he can be replaced from FA for 50k at all times, even if his OVl and scoring are higher. Ont he contrary, there would be no replacement for Herklotz as a single rider, so that wouldn't be an issue. Herklotz would dominate his races, but maybe buying two lesser leaders with the same money could almost make up for it in the end, so the game isn't completely unbalanced as a whole. It would only make some races a little more predictable.
I agree with this point, but in my opinion the game needs a little to tweak to adequately address this.
During the Bewley era I noticed that despite tearing up the game every year, scoring between 2500 and 3000 points, he was able to keep his wage close to a million. So a very similar wage to riders (with similar OVL) who consistently scored way less.
I think riders like prime Bewley should gradually have their wage creep up towards ~1.4M. Wage is calculated from a combination of OVL and performance and I think we should make the performance part a bit more impactful. But not in a way that has riders who have a single overperforming season shoot up in wage. I guess a weighted average over the last three seasons might work for example.
If we find the sweet spot in terms of performance based wages, having a superstar rider becomes an interesting strategic choice instead of a success guarantee.
I guess the "superstar issue" is about more than competitive fairness with regards to the rankings though, no? Yes, someone like Herklotz can be assessed fairly in terms of wages and I really like the different strategies that are available through that, but if the one Grand Tour he choses to attend each year immediately becomes a virtual lock unless maybe a more trained Lecuisinier also happens to be there, is that not also an issue even if the ranking points are properly balanced with his wage?
I mean, I guess before any of the talents we add now become able to challenge him, he's close to regression anyway so maybe it's a moot point (and a bit of an overstatement anyway, plus obviously cio worked hard and paid a lot to get to this point), but I thought it's important to keep this part of the equation in mind as well. Although to be fair, I also lack a bit of historic perspective on this, maybe guys like Schleck or Bewley were the same and everything was fine still.
I'm going to add a few African rider suggestions soon, is there any deadline for this?
I agree with DD's two points. Furthermore, I would argue that this is probably the best year to keep the new FAs low. With the exception of Pidcock, Vansevenant and Bagioli, there are no real supertalents on the horizon with Pogacar/Hirschi already in the DB and Evenepoel not to be added yet.
Ollfardh wrote:
I think there should be a good mix between realism and MG countries, Switzerland should not get the best riders in the world just because we have 3 Swiss teams, nor should for example Evenepoel be given bad stats just because there are a lot of good Belgian riders already.
In general I feel there are too many upper 70s riders from obscure cycling nations. People should be able to fill their team with a few riders from their home nation, yes, but these should be domestiques, not team leaders.
I also agree with Croatia that adding too few talents would result in a few dominating riders, but especially on the cobbles I don't see much coming up, mostly due to the Covid pandemic cancelling most of the U23 calendar.
However, I kind of disagree that lack of competition at the top is necessarily a game breaker. I think the opposite effect of too many guys at the same level is worse. At that top level you speak of, value can be properly assessed by wages and fees. If Herklotz is that much better than the competition, we can make his wages that much better than the competition, and the market will help. This is part of why inflation is worse at the bottom. The scoring potential of a 78 sprinter can't match his wages because he can be replaced from FA for 50k at all times, even if his OVl and scoring are higher. Ont he contrary, there would be no replacement for Herklotz as a single rider, so that wouldn't be an issue. Herklotz would dominate his races, but maybe buying two lesser leaders with the same money could almost make up for it in the end, so the game isn't completely unbalanced as a whole. It would only make some races a little more predictable.
I agree with this point, but in my opinion the game needs a little to tweak to adequately address this.
During the Bewley era I noticed that despite tearing up the game every year, scoring between 2500 and 3000 points, he was able to keep his wage close to a million. So a very similar wage to riders (with similar OVL) who consistently scored way less.
I think riders like prime Bewley should gradually have their wage creep up towards ~1.4M. Wage is calculated from a combination of OVL and performance and I think we should make the performance part a bit more impactful. But not in a way that has riders who have a single overperforming season shoot up in wage. I guess a weighted average over the last three seasons might work for example.
If we find the sweet spot in terms of performance based wages, having a superstar rider becomes an interesting strategic choice instead of a success guarantee.
Maybe use the World Rankings for this, as it already has a three year rolling weighted average built into the calculations
Seems to be an aggressive hilly/TTer, that came 2nd in the Mountain rankings at the DMZ Tour, as well as a few other decent climbing results, in addition to his TT results. Nothing amazing, but seems to be a decently rounded rider.
Spoiler
Surname
First nam
Fl
Mo
Hl
TT
St
Rs
Rc
Cb
Sp
Ac
Ft
Dh
Pl
Nat.
Cont.
XP Level
XP Points
D
M
Year
Pot
Kawasaki
Miori
69
67
67
67
65
71
64
60
61
67
73
63
68
JPN
AS
1
0
10
9
1999
4
74
68
73
72
70
77
67
60
62
70
78
64
73
combo
70
74
72
74
71
76
71
60
61
68
74
63
75
stage race
76
67
68
74
70
76
69
60
66
70
73
63
75
track tt
70
74
74
67
66
75
69
60
61
74
80
64
68
climber v1
Norihiro Sekine Jun.21.1998
Seems to be a track-TT kind of rider, with lots of track results, and a few decent prologue ones as well. I gave him okay cobbles, as he might be kind of an interesting rider to train as 'fabian" for his level 3 or 4 growths as well, since cobbles are so rare, especially for Asian riders.
Eric Antonio Fagundez
Alex Julajuj
Goldwijnn Cannister* - Age 22
Henry Antonio Rojas
Guillermo Andres Beltran
Bryan Fernando Mendoza
Joseph Ivan Samudio
Leonardo Henrique Finkler
