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ICL20 - Race Discussion
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| ivaneurope |
Posted on 24-04-2021 21:06
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 2933
Joined: 09-05-2011
PCM$: 300.00
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Nerz and Herkoltz were really in a league of their own in Switzerland. At least we've got Top 5 finish from Galta as well as another Top 3 finish in the teams standings. But will it be enough in the promotion fight?
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| Shonak |
Posted on 24-04-2021 21:35
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15615
Joined: 16-07-2013
PCM$: 350.00
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Navarro. Like how, why, what. One month peak in June and he gets those results in.
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 23-11-2024 11:14
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Bot Agent
Posts: Countless
Joined: 23.11.09
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| cio93 |
Posted on 24-04-2021 21:38
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World Champion
Posts: 10845
Joined: 29-10-2007
PCM$: 500.00
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What a thoroughly disappointing finale to the TdS there.
The fucking TTs in this game are infuriating. Herklotz could conceivably win a similar time trial in a GT with 78hi 77tt, and here he barely makes the Top 10 with just CT opposition.
If anyone in the MG complains about TT randomness, send them here.
Add the lost stage win on S7, and the break taking S9, it's disaster for us.
We were on the fast track to the green jersey after the great early showings, and in the end we can't even get past Blythe.
We could've competed for the KoM jersey, and now we're fourth.
And to make matters worse, the breakaway succeeding in the final stage ruined our chances at taking the teams classification as well.
As a focus race, and one that started so well at that, this outcome is plain awful.
Edited by cio93 on 24-04-2021 21:41
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| Shonak |
Posted on 24-04-2021 21:41
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15615
Joined: 16-07-2013
PCM$: 350.00
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The fucking TTs in this game are infuriating
Quoted for truth.
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
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| Vali |
Posted on 24-04-2021 22:18
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Domestique
Posts: 735
Joined: 05-07-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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Hm, I must say I'm a bit disappointed with Domont in these latest races. Last year he had some very good performances, but this year he seems to be underperforming a lot. The fact that our leader - like in Guatemala - crashed in Fuji as well (and lost 10 minutes on the last stage) is pretty worrying for our hopes of staying up.
Domont's showing in our home race was really bad honestly. Audebert did a very nice job until the last stage were he just gave away the KOM jersey by not joining the break, but 2nd is still a good result for him. Let's what happens on the last stages of Germany. 
Credits to the_hoyle for my avatar. |
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| cio93 |
Posted on 24-04-2021 22:35
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World Champion
Posts: 10845
Joined: 29-10-2007
PCM$: 500.00
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Shonak wrote:
The fucking TTs in this game are infuriating
Quoted for truth.
I guess this calls for even more training! 
I do want to take the time to extend congratulations to Nemolito though, who is in no way to blame for our performance or my outburst.
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| jandal7 |
Posted on 25-04-2021 00:31
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World Champion
Posts: 11392
Joined: 17-12-2014
PCM$: 1020.00
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Nice work from Jimenez to grab the KoM in RPR
24/02/21 - kandesbunzler said “I don't drink famous people."
15/08/22 - SotD said "Your [jandal's] humour is overrated"
11/06/24 - knockout said "Winning is fine I guess. Truth be told this felt completely unimportant."
[ICL] Santos-Euskadi | [PT]  Xero Racing
5x  x5
2x  x2
2x  x2 |
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| Ripley |
Posted on 25-04-2021 07:31
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3341
Joined: 25-11-2014
PCM$: 300.00
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cio93 wrote:
As a focus race, and one that started so well at that, this outcome is plain awful.
I get the feeling you'd just need to adjust your expectations a little, demand a little less than complete success, and you'd be fine. I'm sure as a focus race it was very successful. There is a limit to how successful it can be, you might not have reached that limit, but you surely got close.
Herklotz gives you such an "unfair" advantage anyway when it comes to focus races, I'm sure you'll outscore just about every other CT team, by a lot. Calling this result awful is going a little too far. For example, Abhishek selected LBL as a focus race and only finished 18th, now that's pretty awful. And Ulrich selected the ZLM Tour where Kittel crashed on the first stage and injured himself, that will cost him dearly.
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| AbhishekLFC |
Posted on 25-04-2021 08:03
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 11676
Joined: 27-07-2015
PCM$: 1861.50
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Ripley wrote:
cio93 wrote:
As a focus race, and one that started so well at that, this outcome is plain awful.
Abhishek selected LBL as a focus race and only finished 18th, now that's pretty awful.
My team have reserved all their awful performances for focus races - Strade, MSR, GW, Roubaix, LBL. All of them Ok maybe not all awful, but not great either unfortunately. And yet they've done quite well in other similar races 
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| Nemolito |
Posted on 25-04-2021 09:33
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3367
Joined: 20-04-2020
PCM$: 425.00
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@Dominik Nerz: Apologies accepted!
@cio: Thanks for the congratulations! I didn't take your outbursts personal, and they might have even motivated Nerz in redeeming himself after "the race we do not speak of anymore", so feel free to keep being yourself
Next race is a big race for us, focus race Circuit des Ardennes, hope Nerz and the boys can shine there as well
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| cio93 |
Posted on 25-04-2021 11:24
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World Champion
Posts: 10845
Joined: 29-10-2007
PCM$: 500.00
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Ripley wrote:
cio93 wrote:
As a focus race, and one that started so well at that, this outcome is plain awful.
I get the feeling you'd just need to adjust your expectations a little, demand a little less than complete success, and you'd be fine. I'm sure as a focus race it was very successful. There is a limit to how successful it can be, you might not have reached that limit, but you surely got close.
Herklotz gives you such an "unfair" advantage anyway when it comes to focus races, I'm sure you'll outscore just about every other CT team, by a lot. Calling this result awful is going a little too far.
Well, in a regular back-loaded stage race with no gaps going into the final decisive stages, I would have been quite content with second in two classifications and fourth in another.
But looking at the situation after stage 3, where we had a 52 second advantage over our only rival and a 12 points gap on Blythe with two Blythe stages and 4 Herklotz stages to go, I don't really have a lot of positive feelings about the way things turned out...
And the TT is what drives me crazy the most, Herklotz lost to a guy with 74 hill and 67 TT.
I was planning with a 30ish seconds gain on Nerz and at LEAST two minutes on everyone else there, that result is the biggest PCM joke I've seen in ages and really taints the achievements we've had elsewhere in this race.
I know my expectations are sky high, but the way I look at it is that I sacrificed a pretty safe promotion spot for this version of Herklotz, as I'm pretty sure I could've used 950k budget on one or two FAs that would have heavily outscored the training gains, so my view is that it really has to pay off in the Herklotz races to make it worth it.
But then again, I guess the ICL is set up much better for a one-dimensional CT team as we can still ride a significant portion of the big races if I continue on the "Herklotz or bust" path.
I apologize if that rant came across as way too harsh for the circumstances.
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| Shonak |
Posted on 25-04-2021 11:43
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15615
Joined: 16-07-2013
PCM$: 350.00
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Personally I think it's great when people follow the races with some ownership and comment in depth. Venting a bit is just part of the process and analysis imho and those are always very interesting to read from Bosch.
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
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| jandal7 |
Posted on 25-04-2021 11:54
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World Champion
Posts: 11392
Joined: 17-12-2014
PCM$: 1020.00
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You guys have got to stop building teams that come out of the bottom three This way my leader can crash out of the biggest focus race (and scoring race anyway) of the year before we even hit the mountains, and my second thought is “awesome, his wage demands will be lower than expected”
24/02/21 - kandesbunzler said “I don't drink famous people."
15/08/22 - SotD said "Your [jandal's] humour is overrated"
11/06/24 - knockout said "Winning is fine I guess. Truth be told this felt completely unimportant."
[ICL] Santos-Euskadi | [PT] Xero Racing
5x x5
2x x2
2x x2 |
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| Ripley |
Posted on 25-04-2021 14:04
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3341
Joined: 25-11-2014
PCM$: 300.00
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I apologize if that rant came across as way too harsh for the circumstances.
No problem whatsoever, and I agree with Shonak. And you're right to expect a lot from Herklotz. Just when it comes to focus races, think of the other poor managers.
@Abhishek: Man, sorry to hear that, that combo of races really didn't go your way.
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| dominox |
Posted on 25-04-2021 15:15
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1452
Joined: 23-07-2014
PCM$: 5533.75
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But looking at the situation after stage 3, where we had a 52 second advantage over our only rival and a 12 points gap on Blythe with two Blythe stages and 4 Herklotz stages to go, I don't really have a lot of positive feelings about the way things turned out...
Well, flat stages usually give more points than mountain ones. And you have to realise Blythe was screwed on second flat stage because of breakaway. So considering all, unlikely that Herklotz would win points classification either way.
And the TT is what drives me crazy the most, Herklotz lost to a guy with 74 hill and 67 TT.
Yep, that is irritating and is a bit weird. But I'll tell why it happened. First of all, AI is controling every rider the same way. Just look how energy is working on AI controlled riders. Usually in this type of stage, on last few kms, every single rider probably was out of energy. And if you look at the profile, it was going down a bit in a second half. So basically whatever happened on climb was main result of ITT. And guy who has 67TT has 76/74 in MO/HI. Probably just had much better daily form than Herklotz.
I was planning with a 30ish seconds gain on Nerz and at LEAST two minutes on everyone else there,
You would never manage it even if you would control Herklotz yourself and had 100% fitness and +5 in daily form. 30 seconds on Nerz, maybe. But 2 minutes? Maybe on easy difficulty, MAYBE. But very unlikely.
I know my expectations are sky high
Yes, yes they are, lol
Nothing aggressive or so from me here. Just answering unwritten questions of how it happened  |
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 25-04-2021 20:46
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 16429
Joined: 27-07-2011
PCM$: 10438.70
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Martin was alright in Reinland to get 3rd. Focus race, so I'll take the placing there, even if I hoped for more.
But just not good enough in Circuit Ardennes. We had a surprisingly good TTT, and then he just completely wasted it by not making the front groups in the stages that mattered. Just anonymously sitting in the peloton as if this isn't the one terrain he's supposed to go hard on.
At least Bennett is starting to wake up and gain some momentum in the sprints, despite lacking wins.
Edited by baseballlover312 on 25-04-2021 20:47
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
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| DaveTwoBob |
Posted on 25-04-2021 20:47
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Small Tour Specialist
Posts: 2433
Joined: 07-07-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Not much to write about for Suntory recently, great effort from U23 Gochashvili on the podium at stage 1 of Circuit des Ardennes.
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| Ripley |
Posted on 26-04-2021 07:05
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3341
Joined: 25-11-2014
PCM$: 300.00
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Our weakest rider scored prestige points in the Ardennes. Birch was part of the stage 1 breakaway, enough to finish 2nd in the KOM ranking, he also finished 5th in the points classification.
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| Nemolito |
Posted on 26-04-2021 08:24
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3367
Joined: 20-04-2020
PCM$: 425.00
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After stage 1 in the Ardennes I was scared that Nerz would have another "don't care" race, but luckily bringing our strongest team played off in the TTT, bringing him back onto the podium. Then he won stage three in style, and did what he had to do to bring the win home in the last stage Too bad the rest of a team was quite "meh", but at least winning the focus race itself isn't too bad.
That's two focus races won, one absolutely terrible, and the two left to come are one day races for Rui Costa, so we already know they will be shit
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| Fabianski |
Posted on 26-04-2021 14:52
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4669
Joined: 29-09-2018
PCM$: 185.00
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Incredible job by Vilhelmsen on the first three days in Ardennes. No clue what happened to him on day 4 though; I guess he must have crashed to finish that far back.
Nonetheless, Huamán saved our race in a brilliant way, taking the stage, 2nd in GC and a dominant U25 win. The TTT win on stage 2 perfectly complements an amazing race for us - too bad it wasn't a focus race 
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