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The European Super League
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| ivaneurope |
Posted on 18-04-2021 20:57
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Classics Specialist
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According to several sources 12 clubs from England, Spain and Italy are going to announce the formation of the European Super League. UEFA's worst nightmare is about to come true and the timing of this pending announcement is conveniently coinciding with UEFA's own announcement regarding the format changes of the UEFA (not many are really) Champions League which are meant to appease the big clubs by removing the so called "meaningless" games against the likes of Ferencvaros or Slavia Praha. UEFA (as well as the national leagues) has been trembling with fear and rightfully so - without these big clubs their revenues (in both marketing and broadcasting) will plumett.
What do you think about the creation of this new "Super League"? Do you think that this is the end of the sport as we know it? Or this could spark a "revolution" in the game?
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 18-04-2021 21:02
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World Champion
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UEFA will just ban everyone participating from playing Euros and World Cup. Enough concessions were made to the big clubs already. I don't know about y'all, but I was old enough to remember a Champions League that only involved actual champions.
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| SSJ2Luigi |
Posted on 18-04-2021 21:12
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this plan always felt like a rich-get-richer scheme devaluating everything else that's not this super league
why even bother going into soccer at all if you're from a country that has little to no no direct way to the highest level off play
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| ivaneurope |
Posted on 18-04-2021 21:12
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Classics Specialist
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Ollfardh wrote:
UEFA will just ban everyone participating from playing Euros and World Cup. Enough concessions were made to the big clubs already. I don't know about y'all, but I was old enough to remember a Champions League that only involved actual champions.
The football has changed for the worse - all in the name of money. And in this age of internet and pay TV so had unfortunately the viewer as well - the casual viewer would rather see matchups between the likes of Real Madrid, Barcelona, Juventus, Manchester United, Liverpool etc. and not a match between say Olympiacos vs. Slovan Bratislava or Dinamo Kiev vs. FC Young Boys. The Super League's problem will be that there'll be too many of those "dream matches" that the casual will get bored anyway.
While the Super League is a terrible idea, UEFA is not short of stupid ideas as well - like the UEFA Europa Conference League further cementing the lower ranked leagues to being nothing more than a second tier leagues
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| cunego59 |
Posted on 18-04-2021 21:26
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While I think this is mostly leverage for some more concessions, I actually caught myself thinking that I'd be pretty fine with this for a while now. I come at this as someone whose emotional relationship to football has grown more and more distanced over the past few years, in no small part by the growing hypercommercialisation of the sport. Basically, it feels like there are two worlds of football already, the clubs who have come to see themselves as global brands and who get vast amounts of money, and those who don't.
And when looking at Bayern in Germany, PSG in France (yes they're not in this yet but still) or for a while Juventus in Italy, I think why not have them F off into their own league. Makes the remaining national leagues way more exciting. All of a sudden, dozens of clubs who would never even come close have a real shot at a title. There's much more variance and more games with teams on comparable levels (both in the national leagues and the ESL). Fans of smaller clubs have more chances at success, fans of the big, sparkly clubs get their clashes of the top teams and for the neutral observer, those deliver higher-quality football, too.
Obviously, this kind of robs us of underdog stories like Leicester. And there's the argument that access to the league wouldn't be merit-based but in my opinion, if you look at the Champions League knockout stages, with very, very occasional exceptions, that is basically a private circle already anyway.
Now, there are other downsides to this as well, of course. With the top teams gone, national leagues would get less money and this would then effect lower tiers as well, at least in some countries. And the national teams might get devalued, although I can't see UEFA and FIFA holding firm there in the long run. How much less valuable is the World Cup without Mbappe, Messi, Neymar etc. (again assuming PSG would eventually join).
I don't know. I think it's important to note that I don't come at this as a big fan (anymore) and I'm still very much torn on the issue. But I do see some upside.
Oh and also, the fcking gall of UEFA to call this a cynic move against fan interest  as if they and FIFA haven't done their utmost to maximize financial gains for the clubs and themselves over the past decades without any regard for the common fan. Ridiculous.
Edited by cunego59 on 18-04-2021 21:32
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 18-04-2021 22:05
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I can't see it happening. Like in the UK when the same big 6 put forward "Project Big Picture", it's just posturing and attempting to grab larger control or slices of the current pies. These clubs don't have legitimate interest in making new pies.
And that's before looking at the practicalities of it. Barca's connection for now is Bartomeu, who is no longer in charge. No German clubs involved means limited interest from Europes largest market. From what i've read there is no real ownership/management structure, just a vague agreement between clubs, and that's too many self-interested voices to actually agree deals or plans.
It's just too complex, too many conflicts of interest inside those clubs, and far too open to attacks and blocks from outsiders (Uefa, Fifa, or even national governments could easily get in the way).
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| Croatia14 |
Posted on 18-04-2021 22:08
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To put it in a nutshell. It's a shitty idea. I think the teams should have to mandatory play in all other competitions. That would make them have to buy a bigger squad or use more of the youth players. I can't stand the argument anymore that teams have "too many games" and "too less time for recovery". It's their teams task to manage the load and get a deeper squad if they have problems with it. At the end of the day it should be national leagues first, and if teams wanna compete in a "super league" may they do it but still compete in the national leagues and CL/EL/EC similarly. |
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| df_Trek |
Posted on 18-04-2021 22:26
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This is the worst idea I heard about football in my life. I'm not sure I'll follow it with same interest I have now.
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| DarkWolf |
Posted on 19-04-2021 05:39
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cunego59 wrote:
I come at this as someone whose emotional relationship to football has grown more and more distanced over the past few years, in no small part by the growing hypercommercialisation of the sport.
Same here. I used to love football, but not anymore. Champions League lost any interest to me, every year the same teams play the final phases and I find that boring. A Super League, which incidentally will happen someday, would be even more so. Why do I believe a Super League would happen? The idea circulates for quite a while now and there is always about the money. They'll find a way. And for example we have the Basketball EuroLeague which has the same format as Super League would want and it's run by a private company. Uefa and Fifa have only so much leverage, when push comes to shove I don't see them winning. The big clubs are corporations now and have the power of one.
Football died for me a long time ago. It twitches from time to time when I look a bit at some South American and Central American games. Money and power prevail there as well, but football didn't lose its entire romance. I still can find some naiveties, some player who is free to express himself, some underdog that stuns. I do it only occasionally and for quite a while I am even missing it.
And for all the powers that be I recommend 2 documentaries, one shorter (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76FEW...6FEWcyFCwM0 and one longer (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2446600/..._sr_srsg_1). I'll watch and support such players and teams than any Mesi, Ronaldo, Real Madrid or whatever, |
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| ivaneurope |
Posted on 19-04-2021 05:41
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Classics Specialist
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And so, the battle lines have been drawn and the 12 clubs stood firm and despite the warnings by UEFA for "huge consequences", the European Super League was born. Though such a league is not wthout a precedence in Europe - in basketball the Euroleague for the past few years has been operating on the same principle with "core" teams and teams on invitiational basis outside the FIBA Europe's other tournaments and those Euroleague teams still play in their respective national leagues and their players can participate in major international tournaments such as the Olympics.
TheManxMissile wrote:
And that's before looking at the practicalities of it. Barca's connection for now is Bartomeu, who is no longer in charge. No German clubs involved means limited interest from Europes largest market. From what i've read there is no real ownership/management structure, just a vague agreement between clubs, and that's too many self-interested voices to actually agree deals or plans.
Bayern Munnich and Borussia Dortmund, as well as PSG from the Fernch League 1, were invited, but rejected. I think for Bayern and Borussia is due to the nature of the 50+1 system in German football where teams have fan ownership and the majority to prevent power to fall into the hands of one individual or consortiums (though this system has its cracks - i.e. RB Leipzig). PSG also declined, but that's because their owner (Nasser Al-Khelaifi) is an important member of the UEFA board and BEIN Sports (again owned by the same Qatari owners of the club) holds the TV rights to the Champions League as well as Europe's major leagues. And will be considered a treachery if Al-Khelaifi decided to jump ship.
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| DarkWolf |
Posted on 19-04-2021 10:40
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https://twitter.com/RobertaMetsola/st...7039833091
What values, beautiful game or underdogs are we talking about? Champions League or SuperLeague is the same thing. Yeah, Champions League might appear to give a chance to the smaller teams, but as long as Spain, England, Italy and Germany get 4 teams each in Champions League and France 3 there's hardly any equality of chances. And with the same teams playing from the quarterfinals on one can hardly build a team like Steaua Bucharest and Red Star Belgrade and compete with the powerhouses since they cannot possibly hold on to their talent. Those are snatched right away by the giants for crumbs from their Champions League table. It is a little too late to talk about sport values, now it just looks like everybody wants a piece of the pie. |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 24-11-2024 03:16
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| tomcat9 |
Posted on 19-04-2021 10:48
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I don’t like the idea of the Super League, but this is a great reason for UEFA to be lost in thought. Because development of European football is going in wrong direction for about 20 years already. For example UEFA Champions League is the tournament for national champions (I remember this format too), not for first 3-4 clubs.
Let's save the history of PCM together!
Just write me a PM if you have something for old PCM Editions (from 2005 to 2014) - databases, stages, shirts etc. and we'll share it.
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| quadsas |
Posted on 19-04-2021 11:20
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As far as I concerned, who cares lol. Incredibly rich companies want more money? Color me shocked. Euro sports have been jokes for quite some time, hence why US sports are becoming more and more popular here.
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 19-04-2021 12:10
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I do want to say that the concept of a "Closed Franchise" super-league has merit and interest. Because this is basically the MLS model now and honestly i still say the MLS is one of the most competitive and interesting leagues around. It's the same model used for the NFL, NBA, NHL etc and they all work fine. Same model for "The Hundred" or the IPL in Cricket.
The basic idea and concept works and can easily work for Football.
I think the major issues are 1) most football fans are old-school and this idea is really a huge change. 2) Ripping up a Century of community history is awful, 3) control resting with the teams.
Problem one can be overcome with time, and i think decreases for younger fans (i know my cousin is football mad, 14 and think this is an amazing idea).
Problem two could be overcome with forming new franchise teams, although then the brand recognition drops away. This is why in the US model when teams are added they are created from nothing rather than taking over existing elements (mostly)
Problem three is the big stumbling block, but again is easy to fix. I can't imagine what the NFL would be like if the Patriots, Packers, Steelers, Rams and Cowboys held all the controlling power over rules, contracts, tv deals etc. It would be insane! The clubs should not be in control of these elements, but a separate management entity.
Basically, this idea as it stands now is awful. But i might actually like an all new Champions League with Manchester FC, Club Madrid, Amsterdam Reds, Milan United etc
Oh... this is just the Nations League but with more money 
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 19-04-2021 12:12
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World Champion
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So now I hear rumours Mourinho got sacked because he opposed Tottenham's decision to join this Super League? Anyone knows more about this?
Getting fired for being a poor manager still sounds more logical though.
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| Supernutz |
Posted on 19-04-2021 12:35
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Stagiare
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I stopped watching the champions league and some of the big leagues because of the rampant unsportsmanlike play and the obvious match fixing. All of this can be connected to the vast amount of money swirling through these competitions.
I, for one, have no interest in watching or spending to see a 'league' where the sport is just like the WWE...entertainment masquerading as sport. |
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| df_Trek |
Posted on 19-04-2021 12:59
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TheManxMissile wrote:
I do want to say that the concept of a "Closed Franchise" super-league has merit and interest. Because this is basically the MLS model now and honestly i still say the MLS is one of the most competitive and interesting leagues around. It's the same model used for the NFL, NBA, NHL etc and they all work fine. Same model for "The Hundred" or the IPL in Cricket.
The basic idea and concept works and can easily work for Football.
I think the major issues are 1) most football fans are old-school and this idea is really a huge change. 2) Ripping up a Century of community history is awful, 3) control resting with the teams.
I disagree here, it can work in US where football hasn't a long history. But in Europe with many "minor" clubs (some are from 19th century), this may lead to a collapse of secondary leagues. You can for sure increase interest in the top percentage of elite football, but what about sponsorships/TV prizes for lower leagues?
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| FreitasPCM |
Posted on 19-04-2021 13:10
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Grand Tour Champion
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Bunch of rich assholes wanting to become richer. No thank you. |
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 19-04-2021 13:21
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df_Trek wrote:
I disagree here, it can work in US where football hasn't a long history. But in Europe with many "minor" clubs (some are from 19th century), this may lead to a collapse of secondary leagues. You can for sure increase interest in the top percentage of elite football, but what about sponsorships/TV prizes for lower leagues?
Yes it would lead to a re-working of the existing system, but let's be honest the current system is hardly secure or sustainable (coming at this from a UK perspective where basically every single club in the Football League system runs at a constant loss already).
I do think we would see a shrinking of the remaining leagues, but if fans actually do care as much as they are saying, then there is still enough people to sell tickets and merch to. Still enough engagement to get sponsors interested and sell TV deals.
Equally i find it hard to feel sorry for people earning more in one week than i do in a year. Oh no, they might only get 50k per year instead of a week! How ever will they survive being in the Top20% of earners instead of the top1%.
And can you say it wouldn't be good for the non-league as well? I can see a potential upside, where the lowering of the top level and loss of trust pushes more fans to enjoy true local and small clubs on a much more engaged level.
and because i, TMM, couldn't comment on sport without saying the obvious - try Womens Football!
(yes i know the ESL said they'd start a womens league, but lol that ain't happening, Liverpool can't even keep their womens team in the WSL currently!)
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| roturn |
Posted on 19-04-2021 13:27
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The problem isn`t the players only. Obviously those will still earn a lot.
But a club is much bigger than players and it`s already a huge struggle for 100s or even 1000s of employees whenever your club is going from 1st to 2nd division or even down to 3rd. Half of the employees lose their job due to such relegations.
Whenever those kind of clubs even lose more money due to sponsors moving over to the richest clubs, the lower level football is basically dead, no matter how much you buy merch (which by an article I read some years ago, is not even giving the club a lot of money, except you have the selling numbers of a Christiano Ronaldo or Messi jersey).
Even clubs in the 1st division will start to struggle due to sponsors and tv right finances moving over to richer clubs. |
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![imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg](https://imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg)
