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ICL - Changes Discussion Thread
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| Marcovdw |
Posted on 31-03-2021 09:48
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Grand Tour Champion
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Ripley wrote:
Great to hear, guys.
Another vote for getting rid of crashes and I guess Marcovdw might support it, too. I do feel bad now that he has lost his captain in three classics. And there I was claiming it's so rare.
It is frustrating but I don't want my judgement on this issue be based on my own misfortune.
IIRC crashed were eliminated from the MG after someone found out the way they were implemented in the game disadvantaged some teams (had something to do with equipment and random values which lasted the entire race, so some teams had multiple crashes in a race while others had none.)
I'm generally in favor of crashes being active as long as the implementation of crashing in the game is fair, but the discovery there was that Cyanide had some unchangeable game mechanic that didn't make crashing fair.
EDIT: This is the discussion I was talking about: EDIT: This is what I was talking about: https://pcmdaily....st_1279934
(MG was still using PCM 15 at the time I believe)
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| Ripley |
Posted on 31-03-2021 11:23
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3341
Joined: 25-11-2014
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Wow, never heard of that. Never noticed anything like that in my many careers, but then I usually only care if my men crash.
Anyway, I totally agree with Shonak. So far I found crashes enjoyable, they add some spice to the game. But if even just a few people find them so frustrating that they lose motivation entirely we should get rid of them, I'd much rather have more managers than crashes.
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| dominox |
Posted on 31-03-2021 11:53
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1452
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I'm personally against removing crashes, and main reasons has been said above. I don't know how with other reporters, but base crash value in options is 100%, which if you run few races, is quite high. Like I mentioned, we can just adjust % lvl for all reporters of crash ratio to like 50% or so. I'm currently running on 70% and they happen, but are not common. And 30% difference is already quite high. Again as I said I did test run with Giro and the amount of crashes in first two stages with 100% is astronomical. With 70%... they happen, like in every race, but amount is much lower.
Later in the season we can do voting on either keeping or removing crashes completely. and depending on results adjust changes in next season. And I mean if % of managers wanting crashes to be removed will be high, we can discuss removing those. |
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 31-03-2021 11:54
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World Champion
Posts: 14563
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As a compromise, maybe we could lower crash ratio for stage races? But I'm still in favour of keeping crashes though.
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 22-11-2024 03:15
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 31-03-2021 16:25
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 16429
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Lowering crash ratio just makes it so that its worse relatively for the people who do crash. So I don't think that really helps tbh.
I'm gonna abstain here though as I can see both sides. I think I'd be in favor of turning crashes off if there was a way to raise the frequency of punctures, but there isn't afaik.
I think the main problem with crashes is how they waste race days more than real life, as Fabianski said. If you crash out of a stage race early or get injured and fall off the pace, you can't make up for it by changing your race schedule like you would in real life. You just lose race days with no recourse. The problem is less about losing time in a stage for me and more about losing several future race days of potential scoring too.
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
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| Ulrich Ulriksen |
Posted on 31-03-2021 22:32
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 3262
Joined: 02-11-2010
PCM$: 300.00
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I would vote to keep crashes for the same reasons as others. Although I would agree better to have more managers than crashes.
One idea that would mitigate it - what if you selected 6 focus races but scored the best 5. It would be hard to give race days back but this would at least mitigate the impact on your budget next season. It would help even if you didn't have crashes but my guess is the difference between the 5th and 6th best isn't that big unless you lose a whole race to crashes.
Man Game: McCormick Pro Cycling |
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| Ripley |
Posted on 01-04-2021 07:26
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3341
Joined: 25-11-2014
PCM$: 300.00
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That's an interesting idea, Ulrich, I think I'll second that.
About the compromise to lower the crash ratio:
Lowering crash ratio just makes it so that its worse relatively for the people who do crash.
While it's technically a very good argument, a lower crash ratio would still reduce the number of crashes overall and thus lower the risk for every manager individually. If your captain crashes in the Tour you won't feel any/much better if a rival crashes in the Vuelta.
So I believe lowering the crash ratio would help more than it would hurt. From what's been said maybe the best compromise would be something like: Keep crashes at 100% in one-day races, lower them to.... 50% in stage races and to 0% in Grand Tours. However, it would mean race reporters have to be very careful and remember to change the ratio every time.
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| Shonak |
Posted on 01-04-2021 08:08
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15615
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No, let's please keep it the same throughout, either 0%, 50% or 100% but tinkering with it based on some forth and back on GT, stage race or classic rationale makes no sense to me (I am also too lazy to change it for each race and I refuse to do that). Grand Tours have high risk high reward, crashes are part of that. I can live with 50% or 70%.
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 01-04-2021 08:45
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World Champion
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Actully I like Ulrich's idea much better now. Keep crashes as they are and ignore the result of the worst goal race.
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| Shonak |
Posted on 01-04-2021 22:30
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15615
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@Valv and BBL: Obviously only speaking for myself now, but between dominox, bikex and me, I think this season is pretty much done already. There are actually only a few races left to do and given our immense lead it won't be a timing issue. However, bikex is always looking for more reporters so I think if you are still up for it next season you are more than welcome to join 
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
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| valverde321 |
Posted on 01-04-2021 23:03
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World Champion
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Ollfardh wrote:
Actully I like Ulrich's idea much better now. Keep crashes as they are and ignore the result of the worst goal race.
Can we make that a rule this season now? Seeing as Uran just crashed out of Trentino for me 
Shonak wrote:
@Valv and BBL: Obviously only speaking for myself now, but between dominox, bikex and me, I think this season is pretty much done already. There are actually only a few races left to do and given our immense lead it won't be a timing issue. However, bikex is always looking for more reporters so I think if you are still up for it next season you are more than welcome to join
Awesome, well I wont know for sure, but as reports are a lot less work than MG, I would likely have time at some points for sure if things ever start to slow down (I guess next season already).
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| dominox |
Posted on 02-04-2021 07:53
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Protected Rider
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Yeah, more reporters would always be nice, but I can agree on what Shonak said. This season is not only going fast in terms of posting results, we have almost whole season done except very few races  |
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| DarkWolf |
Posted on 04-04-2021 15:55
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Protected Rider
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I would be up for report duty next season if needed and possible. |
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| Shonak |
Posted on 15-05-2021 13:00
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15615
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I have usually been playing PCM on hard difficulty and I was wondering whether there was a preference of the board in regard of the difficulty? Does the difficulty actually affect the competition between the AI riders or is more cosmetics and only affects the player controlled team?
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
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| AbhishekLFC |
Posted on 15-05-2021 13:04
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Directeur Sportif
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I'm not sure but I've read somewhere on this forum itself that the harder the difficulty the more the difference between rider stats become pronounced. I usually play it on Normal when reporting for anything. Not that it has made a great difference to ICL with Hard I think. So I think Normal or Hard is fine as long as we don't use Extreme.
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| valverde321 |
Posted on 15-05-2021 15:55
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World Champion
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Shonak wrote:
I have usually been playing PCM on hard difficulty and I was wondering whether there was a preference of the board in regard of the difficulty? Does the difficulty actually affect the competition between the AI riders or is more cosmetics and only affects the player controlled team?
At Normal difficulty, the stats of a rider that you see are what you get. When you raise the difficulty, stats are multiplied by a small percentage, meaning two riders that are 78 and 80 in their main stats, aren't actually separated by 2 stat points, but by a larger margin due to the percentage multiplier.
I forget what the multiplier is, but if the multiplier was 1.05 as an example, the real stats of the 78/80 rider is 81.9 and 84, meaning the "80" rider is now an extra .1 stronger than the 78 rider.
Running races on normal is the most fair way to do it imo, and theres really no reason not to as it doesn't affect the AI in anyway, only stats, so stronger riders are made stronger, which really isnt fair to weaker teams.
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| Shonak |
Posted on 15-05-2021 16:50
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15615
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Given the daily form lottery, which I suppose is also affected by this multiplier if true, I tend to favor normal too.
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
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| baseballlover312 |
Posted on 15-05-2021 16:57
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Tour de France Champion
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I think normal is the fairest way to do it, though I admit a part of me thinks having slightly bigger stat gaps from the higher difficulty could be a good thing. It's actually a decent idea for MG now that I think of it, with a DB that is so deep and inflated. Not so much needed in ICL where the DB is more balanced.
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy |
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| Shonak |
Posted on 15-05-2021 17:09
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15615
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Think for MG you need a whole different level of extreme altogether
Overall I think most of my races have been quite okayish over the past 7 seasons with good racing and solid gaps and not the strongest always won but happy to adjust the difficulty to the preferred level, esp to keep annoying stuff limited (e.g. daily form making a rider bonk).
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
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| dominox |
Posted on 15-05-2021 17:41
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I might take a look in the upcoming days to test things out if difficulty increase really change results much. |
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