In terms of game marketing there has been a change in the last two years. Focus definitely put out pre-release screens and quite early in the year, along with an early year beta. But in 2018 Cyanide was sold on. I imagine some of you are not following the new publisher anymore either.
BigBen/Nacon have a different approach, where the beta itself seems to be coming later, and they have moved away from early screens to a late but more intense influencer based campaign. (i think this is a bad move but won't go into detail here)
If you've been looking out for information, it has been appearing in the last couple of weeks before release. But that broader, slow burn, ad campaign doesn't happen anymore. Even harder to make noise about PCM20 when there is not Tour to market it with.
Another reason, i saw very little info anywhere, about making a pre-order for PCM20. The Daily affiliate link only went up -1day to release, in the past we've seen that earlier, and at a wider level i've seen pre-order ads a good few weeks ahead of time. But none of those have appeared this year or last. That in turn has a knock on where people can't pre-load the game or get on it first thing in the morning, so first play comes late on release day or later compared to a few years ago where we'd be playing before breakfast.
Anyway, i could go on and on about the state of PCM in the modern game market (namely about it's pricing vs lack of official lisencing, and lack of significant innovation). And i could go on and on about the state of modern game communities too. But we've done this for the last few years.
Although i'm not an Admin i feel i can be a lot more honest about PCM now
TheManxMissile wrote:
In terms of game marketing there has been a change in the last two years. Focus definitely put out pre-release screens and quite early in the year, along with an early year beta. But in 2018 Cyanide was sold on. I imagine some of you are not following the new publisher anymore either.
BigBen/Nacon have a different approach, where the beta itself seems to be coming later, and they have moved away from early screens to a late but more intense influencer based campaign. (i think this is a bad move but won't go into detail here)
If you've been looking out for information, it has been appearing in the last couple of weeks before release. But that broader, slow burn, ad campaign doesn't happen anymore. Even harder to make noise about PCM20 when there is not Tour to market it with.
Another reason, i saw very little info anywhere, about making a pre-order for PCM20. The Daily affiliate link only went up -1day to release, in the past we've seen that earlier, and at a wider level i've seen pre-order ads a good few weeks ahead of time. But none of those have appeared this year or last. That in turn has a knock on where people can't pre-load the game or get on it first thing in the morning, so first play comes late on release day or later compared to a few years ago where we'd be playing before breakfast.
Anyway, i could go on and on about the state of PCM in the modern game market (namely about it's pricing vs lack of official lisencing, and lack of significant innovation). And i could go on and on about the state of modern game communities too. But we've done this for the last few years.
Although i'm not an Admin i feel i can be a lot more honest about PCM now
The point about influencers is a good point. I think a lot of this years campaign has seemed to be "lets give the game for free to the 7-10 youtubers" and let them post one video a day before release. Obviously they are only really losing a few sales this way, compared to what a much larger marketing budget would cost. One 30 second ad on TV (one single time) would probably cost more than what they lose in giving it away free to a couple influencers. The problem with that is that you pretty much have to already be looking for the game on youtube to find it. And one day ahead of time doesn't really give much lead time to build up hype either.
What they needed to do, if they were going to do it the "social media way" is to get actual cyclists to talk about it on their instagram or twitter, and like a month in advance. Make a giveaway contest, where you must be following the rider and NACON or PCM (idk if they even have twitter/insta tbh) to be eligible to enter. If they made Sagan do a giveaway, nearly 1million people would be exposed to on twitter, or 2mil on Instagram. The biggest youtuber I think has something like 15k subscribers...
I also feel like most people see their first PCM as the best version, simply because the game isn't improved much year to year, and you dont notice the bugs as much when its a new game. So people first seeing the game on Sagans instagram for example would probably think "wow, this game looks fantastic, I can't believe I've never heard of it before. I have to buy it"(like I did with PCM 08 ) So theres a lot of potential for new first time buyers this way too.
[url=https://pcmdaily.com/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=55893&pid=1357948#post_1357948]valverde321 wrote:I also feel like most people see their first PCM as the best version, simply because the game isn't improved much year to year, and you dont notice the bugs as much when its a new game. So people first seeing the game on Sagans instagram for example would probably think "wow, this game looks fantastic, I can't believe I've never heard of it before. I have to buy it"(like I did with PCM 08 ) So theres a lot of potential for new first time buyers this way too.
That's true! My first was PCM 2005 and I didn't find any significant improvements until now. Yes, they added third division (Continental) in 2012 but it was been already in CM4 (!). They added Pro Cyclist mode but for me it's not important as PCM is a management game for me. I would even like to cut direct control of cyclists in 3D mode (in PCM 2010 they added detailed simulation mode but unfortunately it has been removed later). I do not want the management game turning into a simulator.
@Valv - I'm trying to hold judgment on the marketing until the Tour starts, in the hope they are just saving for now and will try and cash in when general cycling interest is at it's peak for the year.
Not that previous years were good marketing, it's just what we expected. Had hoped a new Publisher would bring changes and new ideas. Getting some Pros tagged into streamers is part way to your idea but they need to promote that harder for it to work (eg. De Plus has done at least one, but did it get any coverage outside the existing PCM social media? Nope...).
During a time when interest in Zwift and similar are at an all time high, when cyclists were under lockdown across Europe, Nacon totally missed the boat.
PCM10 was my first version, but in every technical, graphical and gameplay aspect PCM19 is a better game. To deny that is foolish. So i play PCM19 with a 2010 DB
@tomcat - I asked about Detailed Sim for years, it was such a good feature!
PCM, depsite having Manager in the title, is not a management sim. It's just like FIFA is to football. Yes there is technically a manager part, but it's not the focus and you can ignore it entirely for zero negative impact. Refuse to do the 3D and there is almost nothing to the game at all.
Now that they are bringing the TDF game to PC as well as console, do not be surprised when in a year or two that is the only type of game, and PCM as we know it will be gone.
@TheManxMissile, however, the game is called Pro Cycling MANAGER not Simulator
They could realise a lot of features in 3D to make PCM look like a real management game: you are sitting in a team car and giving instructions. But you're right: it reminds more FIFA than Football Manager unfortunately.
TheManxMissile wrote: @Valv - I'm trying to hold judgment on the marketing until the Tour starts, in the hope they are just saving for now and will try and cash in when general cycling interest is at it's peak for the year.
Not that previous years were good marketing, it's just what we expected. Had hoped a new Publisher would bring changes and new ideas. Getting some Pros tagged into streamers is part way to your idea but they need to promote that harder for it to work (eg. De Plus has done at least one, but did it get any coverage outside the existing PCM social media? Nope...).
During a time when interest in Zwift and similar are at an all time high, when cyclists were under lockdown across Europe, Nacon totally missed the boat.
PCM10 was my first version, but in every technical, graphical and gameplay aspect PCM19 is a better game. To deny that is foolish. So i play PCM19 with a 2010 DB
I actually wrote a whole different paragraph but then didn't include it. I think them releasing it a month ahead of the Tour, instead of about a week signals that they were going to do something differently. Perhaps COVID changed their strategy (apart from the Tour being re-scheduled I mean) but the pre-release marketing has been maybe the worst its ever been. As you say tho, theres still hope.
Also I checked out the stream, as I wanted to try and win a free copy of the game (a good strategy to get people to check it out) and only 200 people were watching at its peak. By getting a pretty good cyclist like De Plus, should be getting in the 1,000's of views imo.
Being a niche sports game, their reach is already a bit lower than other sports, but I'm actually studying marketing in University and PCM is essentially wasting a lot of its efforts, because the people that are seeing news about the game have already bought it/will buy it or already know they wont buy it.
Perhaps their strategy would work for a game like Fifa or Madden, because the advertisement of new major features would entice players to return to buy the newest version. But as PCM lacks that (not faulting them for it, they have a small budget), their best option is to bring in new players who wont just think "this isn't any different from last years game" since their release of the new features was probably their biggest pre-release announcement about the game.
Their biggest ads are always the same: Race the REAL (insert year here) Tour de France like never before in PCM (insert year here)
In short, to keep existing players you have to make improvements to the game, that are noticeable and worthy of the price. To get new players and increase sales, you have to actually advertise to them, and not the already existing players.
I feel like the game has stopped its development and it's not a whole lot different from the first game I bought, with the exception of new riders and the old riders gone. And the fact that the game is out now, is weird, as I haven't seen anything of it coming out, with the exception of a private message on this forum.
But I don't think that this forum is closing on extinction, far from it. It still has its caring members, and some like me, get in here to read the latest updates and comment every few times. But as soon as Cyanide & Co. change their marketing strategies (some very good examples on here f.e.), we will see a new number of members on here, like we used to do in previous years, when TDF came out.
In things like the Man-Game, that is most apparent. After years of expansion and denying dozens of applications out of necessity, we now scramble to figure out how to fill all the divisions each year.
I just read the rules of the Man-Game and I see that's quite interesting.
In things like the Man-Game, that is most apparent. After years of expansion and denying dozens of applications out of necessity, we now scramble to figure out how to fill all the divisions each year.
I just read the rules of the Man-Game and I see that's quite interesting.
If you read up on it a bit and like what you see, definitely send an application in during the offseason, which should be in a couple of months!
RIP Exxon Duke, David Veilleux, Double Feature, and Monster Energy
baseballlover312 wrote:If you read up on it a bit and like what you see, definitely send an application in during the offseason, which should be in a couple of months!
In things like the Man-Game, that is most apparent. After years of expansion and denying dozens of applications out of necessity, we now scramble to figure out how to fill all the divisions each year.
I just read the rules of the Man-Game and I see that's quite interesting.
So long as the man game is still running well this forum will always have it's base. And right now the MG is running pretty smoothly (with some hiccups from a new engine that has had some side-effects... but as we learn how the newer engines fully work, we will overcome those things too)
Kentaurus wrote:So long as the man game is still running well this forum will always have it's base. And right now the MG is running pretty smoothly (with some hiccups from a new engine that has had some side-effects... but as we learn how the newer engines fully work, we will overcome those things too)
Thanks, I see almost all active forum members play the Man-Game and it's ineteresting management game indeed (maybe it's even PCM as I imagine it).
So I've read the FAQ and I'm about to understand how it works. Now I will be watching with interest the current season.
Edited by tomcat9 on 11-06-2020 19:31
Let's save the history of PCM together!
Just write me a PM if you have something for old PCM Editions (from 2005 to 2014) - databases, stages, shirts etc. and we'll share it.
Kentaurus wrote:So long as the man game is still running well this forum will always have it's base. And right now the MG is running pretty smoothly (with some hiccups from a new engine that has had some side-effects... but as we learn how the newer engines fully work, we will overcome those things too)
Thanks, I see almost all active forum members play the Man-Game and it's ineteresting management game indeed (maybe it's even PCM as I imagine it).
So I've read the FAQ and I'm about to understand how it works. Now I will be watching with interest the current season.
That's good news. Welcome to Pcmdaily and maybe we'll meet us in next year's ManGame off-season
2 months ago I started to play pcm 2013 again, the last version of the game I have. I started to watch some gameplays of the 2018 and 2019 versions on youtube too, and now some of this years version, and they don't seem to worth to spend any money (and time!!) in the few improvements they have. And I say "time" because if you play in manager mode and you modify de db and try to make new tours etc you can spend hundreds of hours on that, appart of the playing itself. It's hard to throw away all this for a new version that only changes the menu and maybe improves the IA a little bit....
But I don't think the game is bad. Maybe dissapointing, ordinary, poor... And I think this is where they wanna really be: just releasing each year a new ordinary game improving something a little bit. If they made a real perfect one what they will release next year? That's Fifa, PES, etc, way.
I take the opportunity to thank all the people that created stages for the 2012 and 2013 version. I'm using them a lot. Really apreciate your work and generosity.
TheManxMissile wrote:
PCM, depsite having Manager in the title, is not a management sim. It's just like FIFA is to football. Yes there is technically a manager part, but it's not the focus and you can ignore it entirely for zero negative impact. Refuse to do the 3D and there is almost nothing to the game at all.
This is spot on. There is very little 'management' in PCM, Particularly with the advent of the console game, PCM is to all intents and purposes 'control pro cyclists', which is great up until a point when limitations for whatever reason prevent more tangible progress feature wise - looking at the features today I think that time is now. And the marketing by the sounds of things has been dreadful. Having played the console game for the first time a few months ago I was struck by how similar the two played (although having said that I haven't bought one since PCM 2014).
Disclaimer- Most of my posts are me thinking aloud. And most of what I think is rubbish.
Winner of a FIFA Prediction Fair Play Award (a phrase becoming increasingly ironic) "... Because he (me) has a sound tactical mind in general..." jandal7, at 9:30 am GMT on 12th May 2016
I feel PCM is just like my EX wife, promising to change and improve but disappointing every year. That's why I married my new wife who is like b. Free graphics updates and just add some DLC if you want to enlarge your world. PCM wants to be FIFA but really lacks the upgrades to even come close to the price they ask. In 2020 these graphics are like 8 bit compared to 32 bit, although it only runs on 64 bit..
Managing a team.. not even close. Get rich quick.. sure you do. Nothing to spend it on though.
![imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg](https://imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg)
My first was PCM 2005 and I didn't find any significant improvements until now. Yes, they added third division (Continental) in 2012 but it was been already in CM4 (!). They added Pro Cyclist mode but for me it's not important as PCM is a management game for me. I would even like to cut direct control of cyclists in 3D mode (in PCM 2010 they added detailed simulation mode but unfortunately it has been removed later). I do not want the management game turning into a simulator.
