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PCM 20 - First impressions
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| cunego59 |
Posted on 04-06-2020 12:08
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Team Manager
Posts: 6508
Joined: 14-09-2008
PCM$: 1090.00
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For the first time in a few years, I'm hesitant to buy the new PCM right away, so I would be very curious to get some impression from those of you who are already playing it. How well is the new morale system implemented, are the purported changes to the AI notable, are there any other significant changes etc.
Thanks in advance 
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| cio93 |
Posted on 04-06-2020 12:48
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World Champion
Posts: 10845
Joined: 29-10-2007
PCM$: 500.00
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I'll also wait until after the first patch wave, especially because I'm having a good run on 19 right now.
It would be great if someone would be willing to take a closer look at sprint preparation AI and sprint AI, as that felt like one of the biggest weaknesses and most exploitable aspects of the AI in PCM19, in particular from slightly to moderately reduced peloton sizes and lower average energy levels.
Do early sprint trains still ride too hard for the amount of leadouts in them and run out of gas way before the kite (and sometimes even before 3k, particularly after hard stages)?
Are slipstream effects still OP with leadouts not delivering their sprinter in prime position which results in them running out of red bar?
Furthermore, and easier to test, does the simulation model handle unusual stage profiles better with less to no relevant time gaps after stages that have their main obstacles early?
I'm talking about stages with early climbing and flat finishes, or those marked as cobbled but with little actual cobbles.
At least the latter had time gap improvements over the last few years in races like Gent-Wevelgem, but it's still a significant issue especially in random rogue cobbled stages in stage races with like only 500m of cobbles early that still shake up the GC.
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| Yellow Jersey |
Posted on 04-06-2020 12:50
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 2809
Joined: 16-04-2013
PCM$: 900.00
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Ok first of all in case MG is ever suggested with PCM20, everyone use this thread to just put out as much info as possible
Ok so haven't played yet but the videos and details mentioned look promising, AI is more agressive and daily form is more enhanced, and time gaps are doing much better to it seems! As for career some interface change, hopefully makes it better, hope also the fitness isn't as easy to "cheat", tonight I'll be able to draw some more conclusions 
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| StevenGreen |
Posted on 04-06-2020 14:54
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Domestique
Posts: 571
Joined: 25-12-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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Just did a mountain finish stage with Jumbo.
First difference I noticed, was that descents seem more realistic.
With 3k to the summit on the 1st of 3 climbs Barguil attacks, I follow with Kruijswijk with Valverde on my wheel. Barguil has 30s on Kruijswuijk and Valverde when the descent starts. Valverde (75 DSC) starts pulling hard and completely drops Kruijswijk (64 DSC) who was on follow with 90.
I feel like in PCM 19 you were always able to hang on in the descent and this appears to have changed.
"He made a bigger comeback than Easter Sunday."
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| valverde321 |
Posted on 04-06-2020 15:29
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World Champion
Posts: 12986
Joined: 20-05-2009
PCM$: 530.00
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The AI looks promising. I've read that GC leaders will work together to pull away from a struggling favourite who is have a bad day, instead of all sitting up and waiting for the human player to either pace or attack.
Paris Roubaix apparently has multiple long range attacks and it doesn't end in a sprint of 30 riders like it used to.
In terms of the MG, I think both these changes could make it worth moving to over staying on 18 (obviously more research is needed though), and it uses the same stages and jerseys as far as I know...
My only concern is maybe the AI will be too aggressive now.
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| undertaker |
Posted on 05-06-2020 17:23
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Under 23
Posts: 80
Joined: 19-09-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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StevenGreen wrote:
Just did a mountain finish stage with Jumbo.
First difference I noticed, was that descents seem more realistic.
With 3k to the summit on the 1st of 3 climbs Barguil attacks, I follow with Kruijswijk with Valverde on my wheel. Barguil has 30s on Kruijswuijk and Valverde when the descent starts. Valverde (75 DSC) starts pulling hard and completely drops Kruijswijk (64 DSC) who was on follow with 90.
I feel like in PCM 19 you were always able to hang on in the descent and this appears to have changed.
The last pcm i remember we could win a goid time in descents was in 06. Salvodelli was pure cheat in mountains with a huge descend 
Edited by undertaker on 05-06-2020 17:28
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| Yellow Jersey |
Posted on 05-06-2020 18:29
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 2809
Joined: 16-04-2013
PCM$: 900.00
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With the new time gaps I think gaps in descents will be really cool and actually important from now on, I've raced a mountain stage in Romandie and Paris-Roubaix and I must say I'm quite happy with the feedback. Roubaix was much harder, more attacks, more collaboration between all riders, that is a great sign since it was a race that was sometimes affected by the energy system.
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| rtrenary |
Posted on 05-06-2020 19:36
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Amateur
Posts: 3
Joined: 25-03-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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I agree with the positive first impressions on improved AI. I haven’t focused on a sprint yet which will be interesting, but I’ve been running a TDF and in the 2nd or 3rd mountain stage Bernal launched a long-range attack on the 2nd of 3 big mountains (he was about 1:30 down on GC so needed time). It blew up the field and made for a fun stage. I had to make a critical decision in the middle of the stage to either bridge up to him or sit in the group and work to pull him back. In previous version of the game this stage would have been completely formulaic...wait until the last climb, employ your climbing tactic of choice...see who’s energy bar was the best. This was dynamic and super fun.
Also did Roubaix and can echo what people have said. The race was awesome and about half-way through (consistent with real life) the race lit up and it was edge of your seat tactics all the way to the end with attacks and bridges and chases. Constant decisions to make and honestly it was a bit stressful.
I’d go so far as to say that these two experiences have me feeling like the AI changes have made the in-race portion of PCM-20 a totally different game from previous versions.
Again I can’t speak to the sprints or pro-cyclist or team management aspects yet, but the changes to AI and in-race experience appear at first look to be dramatic and lead to a far more dynamic race. |
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| valverde321 |
Posted on 05-06-2020 20:07
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World Champion
Posts: 12986
Joined: 20-05-2009
PCM$: 530.00
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I've been hearing that a lot of times the long range attacks actually end up hurting the rider that attacks, and you can often easily bridge to them. Also, saw one instance where INEOS had 4 riders in a 5 man group, and none of them paced or attacked. So hopefully the AI can be tweaked a little perhaps, but initial reaction (from me based purely on what I've seen and not what I've experienced as I dont have the game) is that its a great step in the right direction. I've read it works better on cobbles, and not as well on Mountain stages.
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| rtrenary |
Posted on 05-06-2020 20:22
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Amateur
Posts: 3
Joined: 25-03-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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valverde321 wrote:
I've been hearing that a lot of times the long range attacks actually end up hurting the rider that attacks, and you can often easily bridge to them. Also, saw one instance where INEOS had 4 riders in a 5 man group, and none of them paced or attacked. So hopefully the AI can be tweaked a little perhaps, but initial reaction (from me based purely on what I've seen and not what I've experienced as I dont have the game) is that its a great step in the right direction. I've read it works better on cobbles, and not as well on Mountain stages.
In my example with Bernal it’s true that I did make the decision to bridge and I ended up winning the stage but Bernal did still take 2nd and got about 1 minute of his deficit back on the rest of the field. Key to that outcome was my behavior though. I was in yellow so I was happy to just sit on his wheel and not work. The rest of the field probably could have worked harder to pull us back once the yellow jersey was in the move but let’s be honest...I was being pulled away from the field on a climb by Egan Bernal so what happened is that the race blew up. You could say that Bernal should have stopped once I caught him and didn’t work but at the same time he had made his move and sort of needed to stick with it to at least get the time on everyone else. If I had shared the work with Bernal we might have been able to put more time on the field but I might have ended up losing a bit of time to him.
I do think if this is a repeat behavior there could be something to exploit, but that happens in real life too...Bernal needed to take a risky move to gain time, I was in a position to take advantage of that and I made the right decision at the right time to do it. The bridge to him wasn’t easy (as Roglic), but once I was on his wheel I was able to stick to it and recover. One other guy made it with me (can’t remember who), but he wasn’t able to hang on to the top of that climb. |
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| jakobbe |
Posted on 06-06-2020 09:29
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Under 23
Posts: 87
Joined: 31-05-2014
PCM$: 200.00
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I did all the Monuments.
In PCM 19 Milano Sanremo was to easy with an attack at poggio. But it looks more realistic now
In Liege, Pinot crash at the start. He never came back to the peloton, because the AI ride hard in the next 100-150 km. So maybe the AI at some point are too aggressive |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 25-11-2024 02:30
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| Yellow Jersey |
Posted on 06-06-2020 22:02
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 2809
Joined: 16-04-2013
PCM$: 900.00
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(Keep the thread moving  )
Ok so I was gonna make a series doing a TDF with Arkea to put up on Youtube, sadly computer couldn't handle so no videos, I'm racing it anyhow.
Stage 13, Extreme dificulty which is pretty easy and at the moment Quintana and Thomas are evenly matched as the strongest climbers, however Barguil is the yellow jersey with over 2 minutes due to strategy and Thomas NOT working for Quintana at all in Stage 9 after the final climb (Barguil came from behind, attacked and went solo to win)
I am really enjoying, it just feels more sparkly, in stages 8/9 there were dangerous GC riders in breakaway, peloton isn't afraid to go really hard early on, and there's some strategy making the GC gaps. And besides race day form is nice nice, Quintana has had days from -4 to +2 even though he's got 95% form, some GC guys have had bad days, it's more realistic.
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| zoroastro |
Posted on 08-06-2020 13:06
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Amateur
Posts: 5
Joined: 07-06-2020
PCM$: 200.00
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So far I've just raced Paris Roubaix.
I was controlling UAE (Kristoff) and I just managed to finish 9th. There were more attacks than in PCM19 (Sagan, Van Aert attacking whith 50-60kms to go) and I wasted more energy than usual trying to bridge gaps.
Definitely closer to real Paris Roubaix. I also noticed that the riders are more "sharp". |
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| Yellow Jersey |
Posted on 08-06-2020 15:12
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 2809
Joined: 16-04-2013
PCM$: 900.00
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Indeed, I played Paris Roubaix once and ironically it was Kristoff who won, from a solo move in the final kilometers, but lots of big moves throughout the race
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| Conardo |
Posted on 08-06-2020 15:41
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Stagiare
Posts: 215
Joined: 20-07-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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Till now i am playing only Pro Cyclist. There are no (Zero!) improvements in this part of the game. That means not, it is a bad game. No its a really good game. But without any improvements, i payed 40€ for changes in career modus and the new TdF route...
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| SkyRocker88 |
Posted on 08-06-2020 15:50
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Amateur
Posts: 1
Joined: 08-06-2020
PCM$: 200.00
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That's a Joke.
Alaphilippe wins all. French game, French Winner
He sprints, climb, time trial and so on.
Is it possible to change values in the original Database? |
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| valverde321 |
Posted on 08-06-2020 15:58
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World Champion
Posts: 12986
Joined: 20-05-2009
PCM$: 530.00
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SkyRocker88 wrote:
That's a Joke.
Alaphilippe wins all. French game, French Winner
He sprints, climb, time trial and so on.
Is it possible to change values in the original Database?
Yeah, the DB editor is out today actually I think, and there are db's on the workshop which fix the stats a little bit, as well as the names for unlicensed teams.
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| zoroastro |
Posted on 08-06-2020 21:29
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Amateur
Posts: 5
Joined: 07-06-2020
PCM$: 200.00
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There is already a pretty good database available already on Steam |
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| undertaker |
Posted on 12-06-2020 04:02
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Under 23
Posts: 80
Joined: 19-09-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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more i play this, more i find this nothing much different from 19. AI wise, it's a little better but nothing game changing. classics are better though
hill stages, for some reason we see the same for years. they go all out attack and its just pathetic. this is nothing like real life. the whole peloton just attacks in PCM like they are all gods in hills. same on mountain stages, AI in final climb, if the first one CPU attack, 10-15 riders just go with. lol
downhills, same thing as usual. my barder just cant win space for some low rated descenders. i use cursor at max (idk if its the wrong way) the only way to do it, its like other editions: attack in 1-2km and you will win because the CPU just dont chase with the best descender.. tried with pinot, i was alone in the front and at the back with bardet and who was chasing me? quintana, when bardet is the best in the group.
is this type of things that make me not play the recent versions and care for it anymore.
**sorry for my english, not my native language** |
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| Balaverde |
Posted on 16-06-2020 10:36
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Domestique
Posts: 632
Joined: 03-05-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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I second that the time gaps are a big improvement.
Also, I actually really enjoy that there's a big battle to get into breakaways. I feel like it's more realistic that there's a few attempts and that the weakest riders aren't able to hang on and catch the right break. (It also makes it more of a challenge to perform in the role as teammate in Pro Cyclist, which was a necessary change.) I haven't played enough to see if the breakaway always gets caught as mentioned somewhere. That's obviously a serious AI issue if that's the case.
Speaking of minor improvements, I really enjoy the fact that you can see where your teammates are going to race next in Pro Cyclist. You have a listing of up to three races (I think) they'll be participating in next. I use it to join the best riders in the team in the hope of getting extra XP for their results.
And favourite races is back on the screen as well. I can't remember the last time it was a feature but I definitely remember it from way, way, way back.
Another very minor improvement is that the cursor doesn't change from leaving the game screen and coming back to it, which annoyed me quite a bit in earlier games.
Also, the fact that the peloton really tries to take advantage of crashes and dropping GC contenders really feels like an improvement.
So, a lot of small plusses on the gameplay. They could be doing so much more with Pro Cyclist, but that obviously wasn't the focus this time around. |
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