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PCM.daily Stat Discussion
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 15-04-2019 19:20
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Ollfardh wrote:
1) Wait for Ardennes for Bettiol, he seemed more like a puncheur two years ago so let's see what he can do here.
2) Van Aert had to confirm this season (which he did), while Mathieu doesn't have a previous season to speak of. I'd rate Van Aert higher on the main classic stats, with Mathieu having the better sprint.
3) Kristoff????? would be more appropriate.
1. Amstel is probably the perfect race for Bettiol so agree the best time to see his true hill stat
2. But VDP was an amazing ride along with Asgreen at Ronde, crashed and then came back going through riders this is big sta and res.
3. Kristoff ???????
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| purepasd |
Posted on 15-04-2019 19:22
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Domestique
Posts: 541
Joined: 23-01-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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Kristoff looks great like this |
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 15-04-2019 19:41
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World Champion
Posts: 14563
Joined: 08-08-2011
PCM$: 9100.00
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Tafiolmo wrote:
Ollfardh wrote:
1) Wait for Ardennes for Bettiol, he seemed more like a puncheur two years ago so let's see what he can do here.
2) Van Aert had to confirm this season (which he did), while Mathieu doesn't have a previous season to speak of. I'd rate Van Aert higher on the main classic stats, with Mathieu having the better sprint.
3) Kristoff????? would be more appropriate.
1. Amstel is probably the perfect race for Bettiol so agree the best time to see his true hill stat
2. But VDP was an amazing ride along with Asgreen at Ronde, crashed and then came back going through riders this is big sta and res.
3. Kristoff ???????
The thing is, we had the same discussion about van Aert last year and the consensus was that you can't give a rider top stats based on 1 season. I would say the same goes for VDP this year.
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 22-11-2024 18:26
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Bot Agent
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| marcoplv95 |
Posted on 15-04-2019 19:56
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Stagiare
Posts: 210
Joined: 18-05-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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About Bettiol it's good too wait Ardennes (but we have to consider if he will be captain or not), about Kristoff i think that making him 71HIL will result that he can (almost) never reach 3rd place in-game at Ronde, like he did. |
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 15-04-2019 20:05
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Looking at Amstel startlist Bettiol, Clarke and Woods could be leaders but I'd say for this race Bettiol or Clarke but more likely Bettiol with Woods more for FW and LBL
Van Aert is a little better than VDP in general based on Olifardh's point, a shame that he never rode PR to get a better picture
Kristoff will be either 71 or 72 hill, if more people suggest 72 then that is more likely as he has had his best cob season in a number of years
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| Omloop |
Posted on 16-04-2019 10:46
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Domestique
Posts: 433
Joined: 08-01-2014
PCM$: 200.00
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Kristoff deserves 72 hill imo. He's the most consistent performer in MRS and RVW which requires a decent hill stat. Also has good record in the autumn classics like Bretagne. A more recent example is how well he coped with the hills in Oman this year. Regarding Terpstra, I think 79 cobble fits him well, while he still deserves 80 flat. He had a stellar year last year, but that was partly dued to team tactics and a good flat. His stamina and resistance combo shouldn't be as high as 80. I think 79 is max |
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 17-04-2019 14:06
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Omloop wrote:
Kristoff deserves 72 hill imo. He's the most consistent performer in MRS and RVW which requires a decent hill stat. Also has good record in the autumn classics like Bretagne. A more recent example is how well he coped with the hills in Oman this year. Regarding Terpstra, I think 79 cobble fits him well, while he still deserves 80 flat. He had a stellar year last year, but that was partly dued to team tactics and a good flat. His stamina and resistance combo shouldn't be as high as 80. I think 79 is max
Thanks for the opinions but I think dropping Tersptra in two areas that are key to him might not be a good idea and Kristoff is a 71 or 72 hill rider but we have actually decided it might be better to give him another point is res rather than upping his hill
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 17-04-2019 14:11
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Ok the cob stats have gone through a further revision by myself and Croatia and these are the final choices, even though some hill stats could change at Amstel as some of these riders are riding that race. We have worked more on creating emphasis (like fav races) and difference where possible
Terpstra Flat 80 Cob 80 STA 80 RES 80 Hill 73
GVA Flat 79 Cob 80 STA 79 RES 79 Hill 75
Vanmarcke Flat 79 Cob 80 STA 79 RES 78 Hill 72
Sagan Flat 80 Cob 79 STA 78 RES 79 Hill 74
Naesen Flat 79 Cob 79 STA 80 RES 79 Hill 73
Stybar Flat 78 Cob 80 STA 78 RES 78 Hill 75
Politt Flat 80 Cob 78 STA 79 RES 79 Hill 71
Gilbert Flat 78 Cob 79 STA 80 RES 79 Hill 77
Benoot Flat 78 Cob 78 STA 77 RES 78 Hill 76
Lampaert Flat 78 Cob 79 STA 78 RES 79 Hill 72
Van Aert Flat 76 Cob 79 STA 77 RES 79 Hill 75
Langeveld Flat 77 Cob 78 STA 77 RES 77 Hill 72
Bettiol Flat 76 Cob 78 STA 78 RES 77 Hill 76
Stuyven Flat 79 Cob 77 STA 77 RES 78 Hill 73
Kristoff Flat 78 Cob 78 STA 80 RES 79 Hill 71
VDP Flat 78 Cob 78 STA 77 RES 78 Hill 77
Senechal Flat 78 Cob 77 STA 76 RES 77 Hill 70
Teunisson Flat 77 Cob 78 STA 78 RES 77 Hill 70
Keukeleire Flat 78 Cob 77 STA 76 RES 76 Hill 72
Van Baarle Flat 77 Cob 77 STA 76 RES 77 Hill 73
Degenkolb Flat 77 Cob 77 STA 78 RES 77 Hill 70
Trentin Flat 79 Cob 76 STA 77 RES 77 Hill 74
Jungels Flat 79 Cob 75 STA 78 RES 79 Hill 77
Asgreen Flat 76 Cob 75 STA 76 Res 77 Hill 73
Edited by Tafiolmo on 24-04-2019 19:21
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 20-04-2019 12:55
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World Champion
Posts: 14563
Joined: 08-08-2011
PCM$: 9100.00
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Changing my mind about Mathieu. One win can be a fluke, 2 is not. Needs to be equal to Van Aert but with better sprint stats.
About Van Aert, giving him the lowest flat stat of the field is a bit harsh in my opinion. His solo comeback in Roubaix was amazing to see.
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 20-04-2019 13:42
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Ollfardh wrote:
Changing my mind about Mathieu. One win can be a fluke, 2 is not. Needs to be equal to Van Aert but with better sprint stats.
About Van Aert, giving him the lowest flat stat of the field is a bit harsh in my opinion. His solo comeback in Roubaix was amazing to see.
VDP imo now looks good with these stats pending Amstel of course. Agree about Van Aert and trying to convince the other stat guy (Croatia) that he should be 77 flat. BUT could really do with extra opinions on stats for Asgreen as there are disagreements with this rider?
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 20-04-2019 13:50
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World Champion
Posts: 14563
Joined: 08-08-2011
PCM$: 9100.00
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Tafiolmo wrote:
Ollfardh wrote:
Changing my mind about Mathieu. One win can be a fluke, 2 is not. Needs to be equal to Van Aert but with better sprint stats.
About Van Aert, giving him the lowest flat stat of the field is a bit harsh in my opinion. His solo comeback in Roubaix was amazing to see.
VDP imo now looks good with these stats pending Amstel of course. Agree about Van Aert and trying to convince the other stat guy (Croatia) that he should be 77 flat. BUT could really do with extra opinions on stats for Asgreen as there are disagreements with this rider?
It's a tough one, no notable results except for a 2nd place in RVV. I'd say it was a +10 day fluke and give 75ish stats max.
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 20-04-2019 14:26
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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This is what we have for Asgreen and maybe could do with some lowering:
Flat 77/76 Cob 75 Hill 73 Sta 76 Res 78/77
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| Croatia14 |
Posted on 20-04-2019 15:26
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 9099
Joined: 13-03-2013
PCM$: 2100.00
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Ollfardh wrote:
About Van Aert, giving him the lowest flat stat of the field is a bit harsh in my opinion. His solo comeback in Roubaix was amazing to see.
But was it his flat quality? I think van Aert the most of all cobblers relies on his brilliant technique, his punch, his resistance - but in comparison neither his flat nor his stamina.
Remember he'll feel very good with his comparably high acceleration and also Res, which should more than cover his flat "weaknesses".
Van der Poel will feel better than his stats with his 80 Acceleration especially. |
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 20-04-2019 15:39
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World Champion
Posts: 14563
Joined: 08-08-2011
PCM$: 9100.00
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Croatia14 wrote:
Ollfardh wrote:
About Van Aert, giving him the lowest flat stat of the field is a bit harsh in my opinion. His solo comeback in Roubaix was amazing to see.
But was it his flat quality? I think van Aert the most of all cobblers relies on his brilliant technique, his punch, his resistance - but in comparison neither his flat nor his stamina.
Remember he'll feel very good with his comparably high acceleration and also Res, which should more than cover his flat "weaknesses".
Van der Poel will feel better than his stats with his 80 Acceleration especially.
It was in my opinion, his chase was between Arenberg and Pevelenberg. While not the easiest cobbles in between, they're a bit more spread out there so I'd say that's more of a flat stat than a pure cobble stat.
He definitely can ride hard, remember his prologue win against Tony Martin (who was still a decent rider at that point).
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| Croatia14 |
Posted on 20-04-2019 21:35
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 9099
Joined: 13-03-2013
PCM$: 2100.00
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Ollfardh wrote:
Croatia14 wrote:
Ollfardh wrote:
About Van Aert, giving him the lowest flat stat of the field is a bit harsh in my opinion. His solo comeback in Roubaix was amazing to see.
But was it his flat quality? I think van Aert the most of all cobblers relies on his brilliant technique, his punch, his resistance - but in comparison neither his flat nor his stamina.
Remember he'll feel very good with his comparably high acceleration and also Res, which should more than cover his flat "weaknesses".
Van der Poel will feel better than his stats with his 80 Acceleration especially.
It was in my opinion, his chase was between Arenberg and Pevelenberg. While not the easiest cobbles in between, they're a bit more spread out there so I'd say that's more of a flat stat than a pure cobble stat.
He definitely can ride hard, remember his prologue win against Tony Martin (who was still a decent rider at that point).
The first point is covered by the cobbled stat in game however (which I tend to disagree with) and the second by the prologue stat. I see your point, but I dont think that's enough for more than 76 Flat.
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 21-04-2019 08:59
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World Champion
Posts: 14563
Joined: 08-08-2011
PCM$: 9100.00
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Croatia14 wrote:
Ollfardh wrote:
Croatia14 wrote:
Ollfardh wrote:
About Van Aert, giving him the lowest flat stat of the field is a bit harsh in my opinion. His solo comeback in Roubaix was amazing to see.
But was it his flat quality? I think van Aert the most of all cobblers relies on his brilliant technique, his punch, his resistance - but in comparison neither his flat nor his stamina.
Remember he'll feel very good with his comparably high acceleration and also Res, which should more than cover his flat "weaknesses".
Van der Poel will feel better than his stats with his 80 Acceleration especially.
It was in my opinion, his chase was between Arenberg and Pevelenberg. While not the easiest cobbles in between, they're a bit more spread out there so I'd say that's more of a flat stat than a pure cobble stat.
He definitely can ride hard, remember his prologue win against Tony Martin (who was still a decent rider at that point).
The first point is covered by the cobbled stat in game however (which I tend to disagree with) and the second by the prologue stat. I see your point, but I dont think that's enough for more than 76 Flat.
You're of course right about that, but it's the best examples I could find for a rider with a limited amount of races ridden so far. Expecialy if Mathieu gets 78 flat with pretty much the same program so far, Van Aert always had the bigger engine in my opinion.
I'm also not sure why you would call stamina his weakness as he was one of the best riders in his first Milan - San Remo.
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| purepasd |
Posted on 21-04-2019 10:05
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Domestique
Posts: 541
Joined: 23-01-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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I agree the most with Olifardh. Van Aert's strength is his engine (END, RES), his 'weakness' is his decent sprint. VdP's also has a strong engine, but not quite as Van Aert's. I'd say slightly lower FL and END for VdP, but a much nicer sprint of course.
Asgreen seems like 76 for FL/COB but with a 78 RES, kind of like you suggested already. 73 HI. |
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 21-04-2019 18:43
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World Champion
Posts: 14563
Joined: 08-08-2011
PCM$: 9100.00
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Don't forget Gianni Vermeersch, who was Mathieu's best helper this year. Also a cyclocross guy who hasn't riden much road races yet, but he was always there in support for Mathieu until deep in the race. He could probably use an upgrade as well.
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| marcoplv95 |
Posted on 22-04-2019 00:19
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Stagiare
Posts: 210
Joined: 18-05-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Mathieu Van Der Poel
FLA 85
MON 85
HIL 85
TTR 85
PRL 85
COB 85
SPR 85
ACC 85
DHI 85
RES 85
STA 85
REC 85
FTR 85 |
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| Yellow Jersey |
Posted on 22-04-2019 00:53
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 2809
Joined: 16-04-2013
PCM$: 900.00
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purepasd wrote:
I agree the most with Olifardh. Van Aert's strength is his engine (END, RES), his 'weakness' is his decent sprint. VdP's also has a strong engine, but not quite as Van Aert's. I'd say slightly lower FL and END for VdP, but a much nicer sprint of course.
Asgreen seems like 76 for FL/COB but with a 78 RES, kind of like you suggested already. 73 HI.
Also Dries de Bondt and Marcel Meisen  They've ridden really well
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