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PCM.daily Stat Discussion
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| Arberg |
Posted on 10-08-2018 12:14
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 265
Joined: 09-04-2018
PCM$: 200.00
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TT:
81: Doumulin
80: Dennis
79: Froome, Roglic
78: Thomas, Kiryjenka, Martin
Edited by Arberg on 13-08-2018 13:27
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| BenjiNaesen |
Posted on 10-08-2018 12:18
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Domestique
Posts: 546
Joined: 09-03-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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aldrofj wrote:
BenjiNaesen wrote:
The thing that always makes me question databases with matrices under 83 is the following: How does one combat the fact that PCM's Pro Cyclist limits are hardcoded and not changeable in any XML file? Lowering the matrix while not being able to lower the limits of Pro Cyclist makes it feel like you are playing on easy? In the third year, your rider is 83+ in a certain attribute while the others are unable to reach that high?
Pro Cyclist mode is an easy way to play to PCM, even with the official db. Playing it for 10-12 years, I rarely encountered regens with 84-85 in a stat, and when they had it, they had also really bad backups. The best regens look in general more like Daily's cyclists than Cyanide's cyclists, with their higher stat at 82-83 and their lower stats at 65-66.
I don't know anyone playing to Pro Cyclist mode wanting to be challenged. You evolve too much and too fast, and the only solution to avoid it is to use an editor. If you use an editor, why not lowering your Pro Cyclist to feel #challenged ?
I'd have to respectfully disagree. I feel like us database makers shouldn't just assume that players can and will edit their database to make it harder for them. That's not technically our "job".
Nonetheless, it's not like this small discussion is probably heading anywhere because we both have different views  Good luck with the DB. Keep up the amazing community work. |
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| aldrofj |
Posted on 10-08-2018 16:19
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Free Agent
Posts: 139
Joined: 14-07-2017
PCM$: 300.00
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BenjiNaesen wrote:
aldrofj wrote:
BenjiNaesen wrote:
The thing that always makes me question databases with matrices under 83 is the following: How does one combat the fact that PCM's Pro Cyclist limits are hardcoded and not changeable in any XML file? Lowering the matrix while not being able to lower the limits of Pro Cyclist makes it feel like you are playing on easy? In the third year, your rider is 83+ in a certain attribute while the others are unable to reach that high?
Pro Cyclist mode is an easy way to play to PCM, even with the official db. Playing it for 10-12 years, I rarely encountered regens with 84-85 in a stat, and when they had it, they had also really bad backups. The best regens look in general more like Daily's cyclists than Cyanide's cyclists, with their higher stat at 82-83 and their lower stats at 65-66.
I don't know anyone playing to Pro Cyclist mode wanting to be challenged. You evolve too much and too fast, and the only solution to avoid it is to use an editor. If you use an editor, why not lowering your Pro Cyclist to feel #challenged ?
I'd have to respectfully disagree. I feel like us database makers shouldn't just assume that players can and will edit their database to make it harder for them. That's not technically our "job".
Nonetheless, it's not like this small discussion is probably heading anywhere because we both have different views Good luck with the DB. Keep up the amazing community work.
The fact is that the Pro Cyclist mode will be easy with any database, even the official one with its higher stats. It's impossible for a regen instead of being lucky to beat a Pro Cyclist with 85 in his main stat, and since 2018, a good secondary speciality with the possibility of increasing his potential. You must chose a pot 6-7 rider and/or a less easy speciality. For example, I managed to get a guy with 78 MTN, 83 TT and 85 SP, nobody could deal with him.
I have to disagree on the editor point. Every databaser was firstly a player who struggled with the editor when starting to use it. This isn't difficult to do with Fast Editor, and here is a thing that could be written and shared to the players.
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| BenjiNaesen |
Posted on 10-08-2018 16:55
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Domestique
Posts: 546
Joined: 09-03-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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aldrofj wrote:
BenjiNaesen wrote:
aldrofj wrote:
BenjiNaesen wrote:
The thing that always makes me question databases with matrices under 83 is the following: How does one combat the fact that PCM's Pro Cyclist limits are hardcoded and not changeable in any XML file? Lowering the matrix while not being able to lower the limits of Pro Cyclist makes it feel like you are playing on easy? In the third year, your rider is 83+ in a certain attribute while the others are unable to reach that high?
Pro Cyclist mode is an easy way to play to PCM, even with the official db. Playing it for 10-12 years, I rarely encountered regens with 84-85 in a stat, and when they had it, they had also really bad backups. The best regens look in general more like Daily's cyclists than Cyanide's cyclists, with their higher stat at 82-83 and their lower stats at 65-66.
I don't know anyone playing to Pro Cyclist mode wanting to be challenged. You evolve too much and too fast, and the only solution to avoid it is to use an editor. If you use an editor, why not lowering your Pro Cyclist to feel #challenged ?
I'd have to respectfully disagree. I feel like us database makers shouldn't just assume that players can and will edit their database to make it harder for them. That's not technically our "job".
Nonetheless, it's not like this small discussion is probably heading anywhere because we both have different views Good luck with the DB. Keep up the amazing community work.
The fact is that the Pro Cyclist mode will be easy with any database, even the official one with its higher stats. It's impossible for a regen instead of being lucky to beat a Pro Cyclist with 85 in his main stat, and since 2018, a good secondary speciality with the possibility of increasing his potential. You must chose a pot 6-7 rider and/or a less easy speciality. For example, I managed to get a guy with 78 MTN, 83 TT and 85 SP, nobody could deal with him.
I have to disagree on the editor point. Every databaser was firstly a player who struggled with the editor when starting to use it. This isn't difficult to do with Fast Editor, and here is a thing that could be written and shared to the players.
I respect your opinion Keep it up. |
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 11-08-2018 15:20
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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As most know there was a problem with the uploading of the stats that resulted in the post Tour stats being lost and as I have to do those and the other stats again this will take some time. Hopefully by next week all will be done and the consolation is that they will be done more up to date as well covering the races post Tour. Will update progress by next week.
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| jpgm97 |
Posted on 12-08-2018 23:56
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Free Agent
Posts: 100
Joined: 14-08-2015
PCM$: 200.00
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After the Volta this year i am giving some sugestions, but the values are more reference points, to try to explain rider strengthens and weaknesses. It's hard to rank PR stats this year because most of the riders didn't take risks in the prologue because it was short and dangerous. Also the TT was hard, so some climbers performed better than normal. The excessive heat was also a factor. I will try SENT to more in this week.
Alarcón 75M, 73 Hills, 71 TT(i felt that after knowing he wouldn't win the TT he went slower), 68 PR, 70 flat and 70 downhill, as he won two stages(2017 and 2018) attacking on a downhill in the Volta, 71 recovery-
Joni Brandão 74 M, with low backups or 73 with better backups, 72 hill, 68 TT.
António Carvalho 73M and 72hills, with decent backups, 68 TT and 69 PR, although he didn't perform as he is capable this year in the Volta, maybe because personal issues, I think the last years show how good he is as a rider, in very types of terrains.
De Mateos 72M, 74 hills with good backups, 70 flat, 71 TT(even tough he won the TT, he hasn't that good results in that area), 70 PR and 70/71 recovery
Edgar Pinto 72M, 72 hiils, 68 flat, 67 TT, 68 PR, 70 accelaration, 70 resistance and increasing his barouder stat, as he was probably the one who tried to attack Alarcón more.
Frederico Figueiredo 72M, 71 hills with low backups, 67 TT, 68 PR and highter recovery.
João Benta 72M, 72 hills, 70 ACC, 64 TT, 67 PR.
João Rodrigues, except the Penhas da Saúde stage, he and Mestre were the last mans to work and his performance in Senhora da Graça was very good. His stats are hard to figure out, but he needs a major upgrade in almost all of them, as he is a very good talent. |
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| irdalopez |
Posted on 18-08-2018 11:48
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Under 23
Posts: 75
Joined: 06-04-2009
PCM$: 200.00
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Tafiolmo wrote:
As most know there was a problem with the uploading of the stats that resulted in the post Tour stats being lost and as I have to do those and the other stats again this will take some time. Hopefully by next week all will be done and the consolation is that they will be done more up to date as well covering the races post Tour. Will update progress by next week.
When update stats?? (excel online)
Thanks! |
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 18-08-2018 21:52
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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irdalopez wrote:
Tafiolmo wrote:
As most know there was a problem with the uploading of the stats that resulted in the post Tour stats being lost and as I have to do those and the other stats again this will take some time. Hopefully by next week all will be done and the consolation is that they will be done more up to date as well covering the races post Tour. Will update progress by next week.
When update stats?? (excel online)
Thanks!
All correct Tour de France updates have now been done and in fact all races upto yesterdays stage of Binck Bank have been included. But it is only for all WT and PCT riders and not CT riders etc.
Should be released very soon, but is just being held back for technical checking to avoid errors etc.
Jpg- Thanks for those Portugal stats and will be held over till the next update.
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 18-08-2018 22:05
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Stat Note :
A few of the riders have been statted to create leadership problems between two leaders to hopefully capture tension.
Quintana and Landa and Kruiswijk and Roglic are the obvious examples. Also I know this will raise some eyebrows but Quintana remains at 82 mtn (basically his last chance now and has the Vuelta to prove his worth) Basically he is a mtn pt higher than Landa but he is a weak 82 whereas Landa is a strong 81.
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| marcoplv95 |
Posted on 19-08-2018 09:26
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Stagiare
Posts: 210
Joined: 18-05-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Aru did good at TDF 2017 except in last week (where REC should matter more than MON), then bad at Giro 2018 -> Don't wait la Vuelta, Downgrade to 79.
Quintana doing bad for an 82 MTN since 2 years -> Remains 82 and wait for La Vuelta.
Don't want to argue, but all should have the same chances! |
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| sgdanny |
Posted on 19-08-2018 10:30
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3591
Joined: 18-03-2014
PCM$: 200.00
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PCMdaily Post Tdf Stat Update
This should now be fully functional and ready. We know that the stat matrix is a bit over the place still, but requires testing when the the EP gets Its Beta Testing running. The update includes both upgrades and changes due to balancing the strength in various areas, mainly support stats for big GT riders. Enjoy and feel free to come with your own opinion on these changes
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 25-11-2024 12:16
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Bot Agent
Posts: Countless
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| hunterkiller |
Posted on 19-08-2018 10:51
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Under 23
Posts: 56
Joined: 27-10-2007
PCM$: 300.00
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Thanks for the update but Michael Goolaerts (RIP) and retired riders as Tom Boonen and Alberto Contador are still in the DB. |
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| sgdanny |
Posted on 19-08-2018 10:56
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3591
Joined: 18-03-2014
PCM$: 200.00
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hunterkiller wrote:
Thanks for the update but Michael Goolaerts (RIP) and retired riders as Tom Boonen and Alberto Contador are still in the DB.
Will of course remove Goolaerts, but we haven't gone through such stuff yet. Boonen and Contador are in the DB for the sole purpose if someone wants to play with them in a career, but you can just remove them if you don't want them in it. One could argue that they have too strong stats for retired riders, so might be worth doing
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 19-08-2018 11:55
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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marcoplv95 wrote:
Aru did good at TDF 2017 except in last week (where REC should matter more than MON), then bad at Giro 2018 -> Don't wait la Vuelta, Downgrade to 79.
Quintana doing bad for an 82 MTN since 2 years -> Remains 82 and wait for La Vuelta.
Don't want to argue, but all should have the same chances!
Aru was downgraded a long time ago after he failed to justify his 80 at the Giro much like Quintana will be if he fails to justify his mtn stat and that even includes crashing as well. The reason why Quintana is being given the benefit of the doubt is that he is riding both Tour and Vuelta, whereas Aru never had the benefit of riding the Tour.
Remember this is not the main EP release and a lot of testing will need to be done before then.
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| AiZaK |
Posted on 20-08-2018 17:27
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1190
Joined: 13-04-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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Hi guys, I just downloaded your DB, and I agree with your 99% of your stats, but Are you sure that Vanendert deserves 80 in Hills??? |
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| redordead |
Posted on 20-08-2018 18:06
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4882
Joined: 18-10-2017
PCM$: 200.00
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Should Mohoric get more Flat, Cobbles, Fighter, Stamina/Resistance/Recovery after Binck Bank. Also best downhiller, why not?
"I am a cyclist, I may not be the best, but that is what I strive to be. I may never get there, but I will never quit trying." - Tadej Pogačar
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 20-08-2018 19:26
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Aizak- The Vanendert and Wellens example is the perfect example of leadership in the same team. Wellens correctly has the better overall stats but in both FW and LBL Vanendert was actually better on the final hills. At FW was probably the second strongest there and wasted his energy helping Wellens. Was also super strong at LBL and when he attacked late on alone it could have succeeded if other riders had gone with him to chase Jungels..
Redo- Mohoric was done before the final stages of Binck Bank but I think even with what he has could win a race like so. He has the top DH stat and maybe if Nibali was dropped a point he would have the best on his own.
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| Yellow Jersey |
Posted on 20-08-2018 19:40
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 2809
Joined: 16-04-2013
PCM$: 900.00
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I think Mohoric deserves solo best descender, what we've seen from him is insane, also he has insane potential, enormous engine (I would put him with 78res), ok I'll give my current opinion on him:
Spoiler 76 FLA
74MON
77HIL
69TT
71PRL (TT I havent seen much of him, perhaps a week spot but his skills are well suited to be a time-trialist, an average-good one at least.. maybe when he is focused on it we'll see better performances)
73COB
72 SPR
73ACC
85DOW
75END
78RES
74REC (5 grand tours at the tender age of 23 is amazing.. plus he looks like he's been peaking since March which reminds me of Valverde)
I dont think Im beeing too generous, he is a truly amazing rider, very similar to Lutsenko also but with better descending.
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 20-08-2018 20:01
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World Champion
Posts: 14563
Joined: 08-08-2011
PCM$: 9100.00
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73 COB seems too much, he got destroyed on every cobbled section there was. And this was just Eneco Tour.
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| AiZaK |
Posted on 20-08-2018 20:13
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1190
Joined: 13-04-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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In my opinion Mohoric:
Hill 76
Spr 70/71
Cob 72 |
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