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Understanding rider attributes
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| sobrano |
Posted on 09-07-2018 07:29
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Neo-Pro
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Conardo wrote:
What is the difference between hard and normal - 2 Pts?
on old pm was a percentage. normal 100, hard 102(not sure), extreme 105 |
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| sobrano |
Posted on 09-07-2018 07:34
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 279
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Thatguyeveryonehates wrote:
Jacky Durand wrote:
And what is on hilly TT's or a mountain TT? Does anybody know how this is affected by the mountain and hill stats of a rider?
tt is the same as a road stage except the tt or prologue stat replaces flat
so something like?
STAT USED DEPENDING ON GRADIENT:
< -5% = Downhilll
-5% - 0% = Downhill + Pro/tt
0% - 3% = Pro/tt
3% - 5% = pro/tt + Mountain/Hill (depending on effort)
> 5% = Mountain/Hill (depending on effort)
MO/HIL DEPENDING ON EFFORT:
< 85% = Mountain
is flat completely disabled? or is flat something as cob in flat sectors of cob stages?
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| jakobbe |
Posted on 09-07-2018 09:42
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Under 23
Posts: 87
Joined: 31-05-2014
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I think it is more difficult to win for example Amstel Gold Race with Valgren, Albasini and Gasparotto with the new system |
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| mikulitsi |
Posted on 09-07-2018 13:58
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Amateur
Posts: 19
Joined: 03-03-2014
PCM$: 200.00
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marcoplv95 wrote:
Reading your post and replies i've made a note for myself to have an overall view depending on road, I share with you if you need it.
STAT USED DEPENDING ON GRADIENT:
< -5% = Downhilll
-5% - 0% = Downhill + Flat
0% - 3% = Flat
3% - 5% = Flat + Mountain/Hill (depending on effort)
> 5% = Mountain/Hill (depending on effort)
MO/HIL DEPENDING ON EFFORT:
< 85% = Mountain
86% - 95% = Mountain + Hill
> 96% = Hill
Waaait. Wasn't the hill stat gradient changed to 7% in a patch in PCM 17. I would guess it's still the same in PCM 18 |
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| jakobbe |
Posted on 09-07-2018 14:14
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Under 23
Posts: 87
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jakobbe wrote:
I think it is more difficult to win for example Amstel Gold Race with Valgren, Albasini and Gasparotto with the new system
And for example on the small mountains in Liege for example where it is 2 km 10%, will it be better to use 87 with Valgren because he has better hilly than mountain stat, and therefore use his hilly stats. And with Froome use 84 in stead of 86, so he use his mountain stats, or what?
Hope you understand what i mean |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 24-11-2024 08:45
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| SaL |
Posted on 09-07-2018 16:27
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Amateur
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jakobbe wrote:
jakobbe wrote:
I think it is more difficult to win for example Amstel Gold Race with Valgren, Albasini and Gasparotto with the new system
And for example on the small mountains in Liege for example where it is 2 km 10%, will it be better to use 87 with Valgren because he has better hilly than mountain stat, and therefore use his hilly stats. And with Froome use 84 in stead of 86, so he use his mountain stats, or what?
Hope you understand what i mean
That's a really interesting question! |
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| marcoplv95 |
Posted on 09-07-2018 21:38
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Stagiare
Posts: 210
Joined: 18-05-2013
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I never understood what does SPR in Hilly finishs. For example in 4% uphill, which isn't such a real uphill but neither a flat, does both SPR and HIL have effects? And in what percentage?
And...does FLA effect max speed on 0% gradient finish? Or you need it just to keep good speed during lead-out? |
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| sobrano |
Posted on 10-07-2018 11:18
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 279
Joined: 21-01-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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mikulitsi wrote:
marcoplv95 wrote:
Reading your post and replies i've made a note for myself to have an overall view depending on road, I share with you if you need it.
STAT USED DEPENDING ON GRADIENT:
< -5% = Downhilll
-5% - 0% = Downhill + Flat
0% - 3% = Flat
3% - 5% = Flat + Mountain/Hill (depending on effort)
> 5% = Mountain/Hill (depending on effort)
MO/HIL DEPENDING ON EFFORT:
< 85% = Mountain
86% - 95% = Mountain + Hill
> 96% = Hill
Waaait. Wasn't the hill stat gradient changed to 7% in a patch in PCM 17. I would guess it's still the same in PCM 18
this is a good question! someone tested it? |
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| Kaimelar |
Posted on 10-07-2018 11:42
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Under 23
Posts: 93
Joined: 20-06-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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sobrano wrote:
Conardo wrote:
What is the difference between hard and normal - 2 Pts?
on old pm was a percentage. normal 100, hard 102(not sure), extreme 105
This year:
Easy 0,95
Normal 1
Hard 1,025
Extreme 1,05 |
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| jakobbe |
Posted on 10-07-2018 12:07
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Under 23
Posts: 87
Joined: 31-05-2014
PCM$: 200.00
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SaL wrote:
jakobbe wrote:
jakobbe wrote:
I think it is more difficult to win for example Amstel Gold Race with Valgren, Albasini and Gasparotto with the new system
And for example on the small mountains in Liege for example where it is 2 km 10%, will it be better to use 87 with Valgren because he has better hilly than mountain stat, and therefore use his hilly stats. And with Froome use 84 in stead of 86, so he use his mountain stats, or what?
Hope you understand what i mean
That's a really interesting question!
Yes, lets hope someone can answer it... |
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| sobrano |
Posted on 10-07-2018 14:33
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 279
Joined: 21-01-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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jakobbe wrote:
SaL wrote:
jakobbe wrote:
jakobbe wrote:
I think it is more difficult to win for example Amstel Gold Race with Valgren, Albasini and Gasparotto with the new system
And for example on the small mountains in Liege for example where it is 2 km 10%, will it be better to use 87 with Valgren because he has better hilly than mountain stat, and therefore use his hilly stats. And with Froome use 84 in stead of 86, so he use his mountain stats, or what?
Hope you understand what i mean
That's a really interesting question!
Yes, lets hope someone can answer it...
I think it is easy to answer, of course yes! it is usually better set the effort which use the better stat. btw u have to consider that the high hilly stat rider with high effort can reach an higher speed, the mountain rider can only use efficently its mon stat by using low effort but he cant reach high speed |
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| SaL |
Posted on 10-07-2018 14:40
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Amateur
Posts: 24
Joined: 13-04-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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sobrano wrote:
jakobbe wrote:
SaL wrote:
jakobbe wrote:
jakobbe wrote:
I think it is more difficult to win for example Amstel Gold Race with Valgren, Albasini and Gasparotto with the new system
And for example on the small mountains in Liege for example where it is 2 km 10%, will it be better to use 87 with Valgren because he has better hilly than mountain stat, and therefore use his hilly stats. And with Froome use 84 in stead of 86, so he use his mountain stats, or what?
Hope you understand what i mean
That's a really interesting question!
Yes, lets hope someone can answer it...
I think it is easy to answer, of course yes! it is usually better set the effort which use the better stat. btw u have to consider that the high hilly stat rider with high effort can reach an higher speed, the mountain rider can only use efficently its mon stat by using low effort but he cant reach high speed
Kind of makes sense actually, after I read it through a couple of times. It's even realistic then, as the good mountain rider can use his hill stat, and go faster, but will also be a lot less efficient then. So I guess he will go faster using his hillstat, no matter what? But it will just drain him a lot more, because he's not high rated in hills.
The problem would be if a rider like Froome would go faster up a short hill using 84% effort, than he would at 95% effort. That's not realistic. |
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| Yellow Jersey |
Posted on 10-07-2018 14:56
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 2809
Joined: 16-04-2013
PCM$: 900.00
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No that's not the case.
- Imagine it like this. On a 10% grade Valgren can hit 25Km/h at 99% effort, Froome can only go 23Km/h. So if the race is summed up on a single effort, or all the efforts require 99% to stay with the group Valgren is more efficient.
- But for example on a LBL, where there are plenty of climbs, Froome will fit better because there will be many more efforts and more constant ones where Froome at 70% should match the speed of Valgren at 80% (because mountain is the only skill that counts at that effort).
My advice is simple, have your strategy fit your leader. If you have a Valgren try to save yourself as much as possible at all times, position yourself very well at the start of climbs (what you always should do), and try some short attacks if the timing is right (essential to know when).
If your leader is Froome, try to make every single climb from the start hard but not overly hard (by that I mean no 99% for anyone), that will drain the puncheurs whilst the climbers will stay fresher, so it'll balance (and probably give some advantage to climbers)
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| sobrano |
Posted on 10-07-2018 16:25
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 279
Joined: 21-01-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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SaL wrote:
sobrano wrote:
jakobbe wrote:
SaL wrote:
jakobbe wrote:
jakobbe wrote:
I think it is more difficult to win for example Amstel Gold Race with Valgren, Albasini and Gasparotto with the new system
And for example on the small mountains in Liege for example where it is 2 km 10%, will it be better to use 87 with Valgren because he has better hilly than mountain stat, and therefore use his hilly stats. And with Froome use 84 in stead of 86, so he use his mountain stats, or what?
Hope you understand what i mean
That's a really interesting question!
Yes, lets hope someone can answer it...
I think it is easy to answer, of course yes! it is usually better set the effort which use the better stat. btw u have to consider that the high hilly stat rider with high effort can reach an higher speed, the mountain rider can only use efficently its mon stat by using low effort but he cant reach high speed
Kind of makes sense actually, after I read it through a couple of times. It's even realistic then, as the good mountain rider can use his hill stat, and go faster, but will also be a lot less efficient then. So I guess he will go faster using his hillstat, no matter what? But it will just drain him a lot more, because he's not high rated in hills.
The problem would be if a rider like Froome would go faster up a short hill using 84% effort, than he would at 95% effort. That's not realistic.
If i understand, u mean something like this: we suppose we have a rider Mon85/Hil55. At 80 effort on a hilly sector he should have a certain speed X. Now if we suppose to change the effort to 95, the rider should use his hill stats so his speed should drop down...
mmm this have sense. On the old pcm edition the speed was a stat function, I dont know if pcm code is changed to take account of this situation. To be real the speed should depend only by the effort and the energy consumption should depend only by the stat...( I am sure in the old pcm edition it wasnt like this...btw with this new Mon/Hil mechanic the programmers maybe fixed it by changing the fatigue system...
I dont know...we need tests on it |
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| SaL |
Posted on 11-07-2018 11:17
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Amateur
Posts: 24
Joined: 13-04-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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Well, I think a rider should always go faster the more effort he puts in, that's the only way it can be realistic.
So a rider at Mon 85/Hil 55 should go faster at effort 95 than effort 80, however his stamina should drain veeeery slowly on effort 80 compared to effort 95. |
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| sobrano |
Posted on 11-07-2018 12:13
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 279
Joined: 21-01-2008
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SaL wrote:
Well, I think a rider should always go faster the more effort he puts in, that's the only way it can be realistic.
So a rider at Mon 85/Hil 55 should go faster at effort 95 than effort 80, however his stamina should drain veeeery slowly on effort 80 compared to effort 95.
of course. Everyone agrees about that, we should to know how cyanide implemented it on the game |
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| SaL |
Posted on 11-07-2018 12:43
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Amateur
Posts: 24
Joined: 13-04-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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sobrano wrote:
SaL wrote:
Well, I think a rider should always go faster the more effort he puts in, that's the only way it can be realistic.
So a rider at Mon 85/Hil 55 should go faster at effort 95 than effort 80, however his stamina should drain veeeery slowly on effort 80 compared to effort 95.
of course. Everyone agrees about that, we should to know how cyanide implemented it on the game
Yes, that's the interesting part. I haven't played PCM for years, I am looking into bootcamping my MAC to finally get back into it. This forum is great, and very lively with competent people, so we'll probably get an answer sooner or later. |
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| jakobbe |
Posted on 12-07-2018 11:22
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Under 23
Posts: 87
Joined: 31-05-2014
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Do you think the new mountain/hilly system is realistics ? |
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| Wolverhampton |
Posted on 26-07-2018 14:40
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Amateur
Posts: 3
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Can anyone, who is knowledgeable about the game mechanics, chime in and help settle this discussion --> https://steamcomm...700114175/ |
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| sobrano |
Posted on 19-04-2019 21:07
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 279
Joined: 21-01-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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I did several tests. rider 1 acc 85 and rider 2 acc 55 (other stats 65, daily form disabled and all riders had the same form)
In my test Acceleration works on dot effort changing too. If u go from effort 10 to effort 99 the rider with acc 85 take several seconds (2-3) on rider acc 55 before to last the red bar. btw by using the attack or sprint button the acceleration play an huge role. The rider with acc 85 got about 30 seconds on rider acc 55. It is not matter speed changing, but there is something in the acc algorithm who give to this stat a great impact. In my test:
dot 10 (speed was 28 km/h)
dot 99 (speed was 49 km/h)
attack (speed was 59km/h)
a +20km/h speed changing by dot is not affected as a +20km/h speed changing by the attack button. I mean if u increase ur speed of 20km/h by using dot the acceleration stat works much more less than if u increase ur speed of 20km/h by using attack or sprint button (that have not a realistic sense but the game works like this)
about resistance in my test I saw it affect red bar too. An high resistence make u save more yellow and red bar too. |
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