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PCM.daily Stats Discussion
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 20-03-2018 19:08
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World Champion
Posts: 14563
Joined: 08-08-2011
PCM$: 9100.00
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A columbian that can't climb..
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 20-03-2018 20:16
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Therefore I think his 68 hill is good for now
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| jeremyrobin |
Posted on 27-03-2018 16:47
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Under 23
Posts: 59
Joined: 29-09-2014
PCM$: 200.00
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Koen Bouwman finish 5th at Settimana Internazionale Coppi e Bartali
https://www.procy...rtali/2018
Ivan Sosa finish 5th in mountain stage
https://www.procy...18/stage-2 |
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 29-03-2018 09:25
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Thanks for the reminder and those riders upgraded.
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 26-11-2024 16:25
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| jpgm97 |
Posted on 31-03-2018 13:41
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Free Agent
Posts: 100
Joined: 14-08-2015
PCM$: 200.00
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Aren't some riders with high resistance overpowered? I mean in my pro cyclist carer Michael Matthews has just finished 4th in 2023 Tour. Also having high recovery stat may also have something doing with that. |
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| aldrofj |
Posted on 31-03-2018 15:01
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Free Agent
Posts: 139
Joined: 14-07-2017
PCM$: 300.00
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jpgm97 wrote:
Aren't some riders with high resistance overpowered? I mean in my pro cyclist carer Michael Matthews has just finished 4th in 2023 Tour. Also having high recovery stat may also have something doing with that.
They have lower main stats when they have higher res, but sometimes, they could handle a difficult climb quite well. Your case seems to be extreme, did the profile wasn't that difficult or did Matthews improved himself in mo/tt/... ?
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| jpgm97 |
Posted on 31-03-2018 16:09
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Free Agent
Posts: 100
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aldrofj wrote:
jpgm97 wrote:
Aren't some riders with high resistance overpowered? I mean in my pro cyclist carer Michael Matthews has just finished 4th in 2023 Tour. Also having high recovery stat may also have something doing with that.
They have lower main stats when they have higher res, but sometimes, they could handle a difficult climb quite well. Your case seems to be extreme, did the profile wasn't that difficult or did Matthews improved himself in mo/tt/... ?
I think he did only improve 1 point in sprint and 2 in recovery, the others stats are the same when I started. The profile was the 2012 Tour when Wiggins won.
Edited by jpgm97 on 31-03-2018 16:17
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| aldrofj |
Posted on 31-03-2018 20:24
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Free Agent
Posts: 139
Joined: 14-07-2017
PCM$: 300.00
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jpgm97 wrote:
aldrofj wrote:
jpgm97 wrote:
Aren't some riders with high resistance overpowered? I mean in my pro cyclist carer Michael Matthews has just finished 4th in 2023 Tour. Also having high recovery stat may also have something doing with that.
They have lower main stats when they have higher res, but sometimes, they could handle a difficult climb quite well. Your case seems to be extreme, did the profile wasn't that difficult or did Matthews improved himself in mo/tt/... ?
I think he did only improve 1 point in sprint and 2 in recovery, the others stats are the same when I started. The profile was the 2012 Tour when Wiggins won.
This dear 2012 profile. 
Despite the stage to La Toussuire, there isn't a really hard mountain stage in this edition. However, this is quite strange, because riders like Sagan or Lutsenko have about the same mo/res/rec stats and usually don't do such results. Do you have some screenshots about the results of the mountain stages ?
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| jpgm97 |
Posted on 31-03-2018 22:39
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Free Agent
Posts: 100
Joined: 14-08-2015
PCM$: 200.00
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aldrofj wrote:
jpgm97 wrote:
aldrofj wrote:
jpgm97 wrote:
Aren't some riders with high resistance overpowered? I mean in my pro cyclist carer Michael Matthews has just finished 4th in 2023 Tour. Also having high recovery stat may also have something doing with that.
They have lower main stats when they have higher res, but sometimes, they could handle a difficult climb quite well. Your case seems to be extreme, did the profile wasn't that difficult or did Matthews improved himself in mo/tt/... ?
I think he did only improve 1 point in sprint and 2 in recovery, the others stats are the same when I started. The profile was the 2012 Tour when Wiggins won.
This dear 2012 profile.
Despite the stage to La Toussuire, there isn't a really hard mountain stage in this edition. However, this is quite strange, because riders like Sagan or Lutsenko have about the same mo/res/rec stats and usually don't do such results. Do you have some screenshots about the results of the mountain stages ?
That Tour I talked about was the first my pro cyclist did and yes , but noticed now that Matthews already had finished 8th in 2018, 12th in 2019, 15th in 2020, 10th in 2021; Jasper Stuyven finished 14th in 2020 and Peter Sagan 9th in 2020, but I guess some strange things happen in simulation mode.
I do have screenshots. Matthews lost more less 2 minutes in each of the most hard stages. https://imgur.com... |
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| jandal7 |
Posted on 31-03-2018 22:48
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World Champion
Posts: 11395
Joined: 17-12-2014
PCM$: 1020.00
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The auto function/AI doesn't do much for logical grupetto hunting or not caring about mountains - punchy sprinters with good backups do well a lot. Colbrelli came nearly top 15 in a quite hard Giro for me by accident when I put him on auto so he'd stay around for intermediates - just lost time in the final mountains but still around 17th.
24/02/21 - kandesbunzler said “I don't drink famous people."
15/08/22 - SotD said "Your [jandal's] humour is overrated"
11/06/24 - knockout said "Winning is fine I guess. Truth be told this felt completely unimportant."
[ICL] Santos-Euskadi | [PT]  Xero Racing
5x  x5
2x  x2
2x  x2 |
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| df_Trek |
Posted on 01-04-2018 00:33
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Small Tour Specialist
Posts: 2324
Joined: 07-07-2016
PCM$: 17374.00
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I got Matthews too in top10 TdF almost every year, I can't remember exactly all his stats, but for sure has 71MO 77HIL, and I'm not simulating
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| jandal7 |
Posted on 01-04-2018 00:38
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World Champion
Posts: 11395
Joined: 17-12-2014
PCM$: 1020.00
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df_Trek wrote:
I got Matthews too in top10 TdF almost every year, I can't remember exactly all his stats, but for sure has 71MO 77HIL, and I'm not simulating
Are you using him or AI teams?
24/02/21 - kandesbunzler said “I don't drink famous people."
15/08/22 - SotD said "Your [jandal's] humour is overrated"
11/06/24 - knockout said "Winning is fine I guess. Truth be told this felt completely unimportant."
[ICL] Santos-Euskadi | [PT] Xero Racing
5x x5
2x x2
2x x2 |
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| df_Trek |
Posted on 01-04-2018 00:43
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Small Tour Specialist
Posts: 2324
Joined: 07-07-2016
PCM$: 17374.00
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he is in AI team, and I was quite hangry finishing behind him with Latour 
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| jandal7 |
Posted on 01-04-2018 01:21
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World Champion
Posts: 11395
Joined: 17-12-2014
PCM$: 1020.00
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Yeah so AI basically use the auto function with the default strategies 
24/02/21 - kandesbunzler said “I don't drink famous people."
15/08/22 - SotD said "Your [jandal's] humour is overrated"
11/06/24 - knockout said "Winning is fine I guess. Truth be told this felt completely unimportant."
[ICL] Santos-Euskadi | [PT] Xero Racing
5x x5
2x x2
2x x2 |
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 01-04-2018 09:16
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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The problem is that it's a trade off between MTN and RES stats and very hard to get exactly right sometimes. The problem is due to the fact that the mtn stat is now far more important than the hill one so previous hill riders need a decent mtn stat to do well on hills. Where a rider is good on hills but not very good in mtns irl the RES stat can help to compensate a lot this deficiency in the game.
So a rider like Matthews who is a good hill rider and an average climber needs a high RES to compensate for the gap between his mtn and hill.
But originally this difference between mtn and hill was usually quite large and a high RES worked well but I now think that the difference between the mtn and hill of Matthews is not so great at 71 and 77 (his mtn crept up over the last yea). The solution will be to either lower his RES or even better his mtn by a point. I will speak to the other stat team members about this and its only really a few riders that are going to be affected here like Matthews and Sagan.
Hell I had Sagan finish once 10th in the TDF and that was after slaving away for Contador in the mtns, since then I have reduced his RES and mtn but maybe it needs to be done evn more.
This problem has been a problem for a while and I now think it does need to be sorted out better.
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| jandal7 |
Posted on 01-04-2018 10:57
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World Champion
Posts: 11395
Joined: 17-12-2014
PCM$: 1020.00
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Don't take all the pressure here Tafiolmo - not just a PCM 16/17 issue by any means. But certainly one it'd be good to fix and investigate - more an AI problem and with RES and REC certainly applying to Sagan for sure it's hard to balance out without taking away his abilities.
24/02/21 - kandesbunzler said “I don't drink famous people."
15/08/22 - SotD said "Your [jandal's] humour is overrated"
11/06/24 - knockout said "Winning is fine I guess. Truth be told this felt completely unimportant."
[ICL] Santos-Euskadi | [PT] Xero Racing
5x x5
2x x2
2x x2 |
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| df_Trek |
Posted on 01-04-2018 11:34
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Small Tour Specialist
Posts: 2324
Joined: 07-07-2016
PCM$: 17374.00
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yeah, the problem is that probably it afflicts also his Classics performances, btw when i was playing pcm14 I had Sagan constantly in top10 at Vuelta
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| LuckyLukas |
Posted on 01-04-2018 12:36
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Under 23
Posts: 62
Joined: 29-06-2016
PCM$: 200.00
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Tafiolmo wrote:
The problem is that it's a trade off between MTN and RES stats and very hard to get exactly right sometimes. The problem is due to the fact that the mtn stat is now far more important than the hill one so previous hill riders need a decent mtn stat to do well on hills. Where a rider is good on hills but not very good in mtns irl the RES stat can help to compensate a lot this deficiency in the game.
So a rider like Matthews who is a good hill rider and an average climber needs a high RES to compensate for the gap between his mtn and hill.
But originally this difference between mtn and hill was usually quite large and a high RES worked well but I now think that the difference between the mtn and hill of Matthews is not so great at 71 and 77 (his mtn crept up over the last yea). The solution will be to either lower his RES or even better his mtn by a point. I will speak to the other stat team members about this and its only really a few riders that are going to be affected here like Matthews and Sagan.
Hell I had Sagan finish once 10th in the TDF and that was after slaving away for Contador in the mtns, since then I have reduced his RES and mtn but maybe it needs to be done evn more.
This problem has been a problem for a while and I now think it does need to be sorted out better.
I experimented a lot wihth hill/mtn/res because it annoyed me that guys like Sagan, Mathews, van Avermaet were to good on 3,5-15 km mountains and not good enough on 1,5-3,5 km hills. With "not good enough" I mean that these guys almost never win 1,5-3,5 hill finishes when they are controlled by the AI.
The best solution i found was to increase their hill and reduce their mountain stat. This leads to the result, that finishes like Willunga Hill (4km) are a bit to hard for them while they can finally win those short hills like the one in Longwy from last years TDF. With 68/79 Mathews is still able to get a Top 5 in L-B-L, while he is less likely to win the Tour Down Under by not loosing a second on Willunga Hill.
The disadvantage of my approach is that guys like Mathews and Sagan overperform on very steep short climbs like Mur de Huy. That's because the gradient is unfortunately not a factor in PCM 17.
I also adjusted the res stat but those changes would't be practical for a db that is used for carreer mode.
I often read sentences like "Mathews earns a mtn stat of 71 beacause of his performences" in stat discussions. I think that riders should get the stats that make them perform most realistic in game.
I can only advise to test more polarised Hill/Mountain stats. Also for guys like Albasini, McCarthy,...They don't need mtn stats >70 to hang on in those hilly classics.
Edited by LuckyLukas on 01-04-2018 13:17
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| jensi251 |
Posted on 01-04-2018 16:20
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Under 23
Posts: 65
Joined: 19-10-2016
PCM$: 200.00
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Mads Pedersen needs an upgrade. Not only because of today. Huge talent. |
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 01-04-2018 16:34
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Agree about Pedersen and I'll be doing the Flanders stats later on but I have a general question that I'm going to throw out hera bout Terpstra.
Do you guys think his flat and cobble should be the same? or higher flat than cobble or even higher cobble than flat?
Also will be great to see your stat suggestions for the cobble races so far for the leading riders, especially since riders like GVA have not performed like last season
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