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Hill stat is not working at all right now
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| suigfdhuibsyret |
Posted on 17-06-2017 17:31
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Amateur
Posts: 14
Joined: 03-08-2009
PCM$: 200.00
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Hi people of pcmdaily. I just wanted to bring your attention to a massive flaw in the game right now. The hill stat has no impact on any terrain or on any sort of effort percentage. I've been testing tons of scenarios today and yesterday, so did evert from pcm focus, and we are convinced the hill stat just doens't work.
Up until pcm 2015 the interaction between hill and climb was established through the gene_f_mountain indicator linked to the stage. I tested stages with a value of 0 on gene_f_mountain (meaning all slopes should be determined by the hill stat), somewhere between 0.3 and .7 ( meaning the slopes are o combination between climb and hill stat) up to gene_f_mountain 1 (meaning only the climb stat matters).
I've found 0 difference between an 85 hiller, a 70 hiller and a 50 hiller on any of these stages, with all other stats being exactly the same.
On the other hand. An 85 climber with exactly the same stats, is way faster uphill, even if he has 50 hill.
Now all of this should be the case if the effort is below 70 since pcm 2016 introduced a new system where the interaction between climb and hill is no longer linked to the gene_f_mountain, but to the effort meter ingame. That is not the case though in 2017 so it seems. I've tested all stages twice. Once with 60 effort, once with 85 effort. Still, the 85 hiller didn't make up a single second on the 50 hiller with the exact same stats, regardless of the effort of the riders.
I made a very low effort video of a part of a stage while testing. But OBS made things pretty laggy so the quality is really bad. It does however show some of the things I explained.
https://www.youtu...bjDr6QGARs
I'd be glad if other people test this as well to confirm what i'm saying. u can use
this link (https://www.filedropper.com/heuveltest) to download my test database. Just extract and place the folder in docs-pcm 17-mod. Use ag2r as your team ingame
thx
Edited by suigfdhuibsyret on 17-06-2017 17:40
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| Jarci |
Posted on 17-06-2017 17:39
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Amateur
Posts: 23
Joined: 15-05-2015
PCM$: 200.00
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I wonder what were all this ,,beta testers,, doing if everything you said is true |
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| valverde321 |
Posted on 17-06-2017 17:55
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World Champion
Posts: 12986
Joined: 20-05-2009
PCM$: 530.00
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Jarci wrote:
I wonder what were all this ,,beta testers,, doing if everything you said is true
People say this EVERY SINGLE YEAR. How about put the blame on the people making the game, since bugs like this occur every single year.
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| denberre |
Posted on 17-06-2017 19:14
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Amateur
Posts: 16
Joined: 21-11-2009
PCM$: 200.00
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Dear PCMDaily Community,
The hill stat does not work. Perhaps we hope that cyanide can fix it in a new patch. Watch the video to understand the problem. https://www.youtu...NHYFp3YXQs
Regards,
The NCL Online Community
Edited by denberre on 17-06-2017 19:34
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| tsmoha |
Posted on 17-06-2017 19:35
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 11819
Joined: 19-07-2010
PCM$: 300.00
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 24-11-2024 06:35
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Bot Agent
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| cio93 |
Posted on 17-06-2017 19:40
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World Champion
Posts: 10845
Joined: 29-10-2007
PCM$: 500.00
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Two of the three main stats are broken.
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| tellico |
Posted on 17-06-2017 20:07
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 263
Joined: 13-09-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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One is Hill, but second...? |
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| dalia |
Posted on 17-06-2017 22:57
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Amateur
Posts: 7
Joined: 29-07-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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I think REC doesn't work too,i put at 10 and 0 for my pro and it change nothing. They have the same stamina than other cyclist after 2,3 4 runs.
In PRO IA is broken too, all run are same, breakway, it take 5min and after they run like crazy autist until brekaway is over, they do same if the better guy is at 9minutes on yellow jersey......... |
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| cio93 |
Posted on 17-06-2017 23:01
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World Champion
Posts: 10845
Joined: 29-10-2007
PCM$: 500.00
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Well apparently Yates can win sprint stages.
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| Thatguyeveryonehates |
Posted on 17-06-2017 23:15
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Domestique
Posts: 447
Joined: 01-05-2014
PCM$: 200.00
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i saw contador win
not sure what is happening because i can see the good sprinters are faster but the results are so random |
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| tellico |
Posted on 17-06-2017 23:17
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 263
Joined: 13-09-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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| Kaimelar |
Posted on 17-06-2017 23:42
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Under 23
Posts: 93
Joined: 20-06-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Hill stat does work during uphill when your cyclist uses the red bar (85+ effort if his hill good enough to even use red bar but more visible over 90 effort) and it also works when the cyclists are out of red and yellow bar. It's really weak effect though. |
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| sierramike |
Posted on 18-06-2017 01:23
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Under 23
Posts: 69
Joined: 19-07-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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when not explained to cyanide in french reply= ..
Else there's " we are not responsible for bugs in modded game"
"working as intended"
"it's on are to do list (fix in pcm 18 (or later),be sure to buy pcm18,kthxbye)
replies of fanboys will be even more silly like "hill stat does work over 85 effort" or "works when bars are empty" ... |
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| suigfdhuibsyret |
Posted on 18-06-2017 01:49
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Amateur
Posts: 14
Joined: 03-08-2009
PCM$: 200.00
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Kaimelar wrote:
Hill stat does work during uphill when your cyclist uses the red bar (85+ effort if his hill good enough to even use red bar but more visible over 90 effort) and it also works when the cyclists are out of red and yellow bar. It's really weak effect though.
I tested this and you are actually correct. From 85 and up, things get weird.
So i played a full mountain stage and a hilly stage, both with the same results.
what i think happens is that the hill stat works as a sort of effort cap/limitation. Meaning that a rider cant go above a certain effort/pace, limited by the hill stat. The 85 hillers can go to a higher heartbeat, and take an advantage of about 15/30 seconds on a 70 hiller, who also takes about 15-30 seconds on a 50 hiller while all going 90 percent starting from full yellow, full red, to emty yellow, empty red.
This is a super small difference indeed. but what's worse is that the better hillers also lose yellow and red faster. Meaning that they cannot hold their effort as long as the bad hillers. At the end of the effort, the bad hillers close the small gap the good hillers created because they lasted a bit longer. So thats why i think the hill stat is some sort of effort cap.
that's as far of a conclusion I can make, because other than that it seemed very inconsistent. the 85 hiller took about 1.5 minutes over a whole amstel gold race on the 70 hiller, with effort intervals, while the 50 hiller caught up to the 70 hiller (who started 1 minute earlier) about halfway the stage, which makes no sense at all. All three of them had same form of the day too.
For the record, 85 climb/70 hill took about 12 minutes on 70 climb/85 hill throughout this stage. So the stat is still clearly broken.
Anyway, if anyone is interested, i'm uploading the raw footage of the amstel test right now. I'll edit it in when its done.
edit: https://www.youtu...eeZhkRZz54
Edited by suigfdhuibsyret on 18-06-2017 03:18
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| matt17br |
Posted on 18-06-2017 02:48
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 10525
Joined: 28-09-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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valverde321 wrote:
Jarci wrote:
I wonder what were all this ,,beta testers,, doing if everything you said is true
People say this EVERY SINGLE YEAR. How about put the blame on the people making the game, since bugs like this occur every single year.
Yeah there we go again.
We tested a version of the game where only multiplayer mode was available in the month leading up to release, and according to internal sources, the AI was changed radically without us being able to test it and only being given the AI that was used in PCM 16 too.
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| river83 |
Posted on 18-06-2017 03:30
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Amateur
Posts: 9
Joined: 18-06-2017
PCM$: 200.00
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I think this is a design philosophy problem as much as an implementation problem. Last year there was discussion about the mountain stat being essentially "slow climbing" and the hill stat being essentially "fast climbing". If Cyanide was indeed going toward this design, then while a racer is climbing the hill stat would naturally not come into play until that rider started riding quickly or with effort. Which means a racers hill stat wouldn't make much difference on a hilly stage until they started riding with more effort, whereas when riding slowly the "mountain" stat would make more difference. Which is counter-intuitive and causes all sorts of problems.
This is compounded with a really shitty implementation that makes the gaps between riders when riding quickly quite small. And that's without touching on recovery and resistance issues.
In short, while Cyanide persist with their philosophy of "hill" being "fast climbing" then they're going to struggle with implementing that system in a way that is intuitive and makes sense to the players. I prefer PCM 14, which wasn't ideal but at least the stats made sense (that is, hill stats mattering on hill stages.) Cyanide should scrap their "new climbing system" for PCM 18.
Edited by river83 on 18-06-2017 03:32
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| Jarci |
Posted on 18-06-2017 06:13
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Amateur
Posts: 23
Joined: 15-05-2015
PCM$: 200.00
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matt17br wrote:
valverde321 wrote:
Jarci wrote:
I wonder what were all this ,,beta testers,, doing if everything you said is true
People say this EVERY SINGLE YEAR. How about put the blame on the people making the game, since bugs like this occur every single year.
Yeah there we go again.
We tested a version of the game where only multiplayer mode was available in the month leading up to release, and according to internal sources, the AI was changed radically without us being able to test it and only being given the AI that was used in PCM 16 too.
Okay iam sorry i didnt know that but i saw few videos on youtube before game release where people were playing carrier mode |
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| matt17br |
Posted on 18-06-2017 11:22
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 10525
Joined: 28-09-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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You're talking about 1 day before game release, when all the youtubers were given the game for free. Beta testers only tested career mode in February, when as said, AI changes weren't present.
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| cunego59 |
Posted on 18-06-2017 11:36
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Team Manager
Posts: 6508
Joined: 14-09-2008
PCM$: 1090.00
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Just out of curiosity, does anyone have a good idea for the interaction of hill and mountain stats, and when what stat comes into play? Something that could realistically be implemented?
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| stealingsilver |
Posted on 18-06-2017 14:45
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Free Agent
Posts: 113
Joined: 08-02-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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So this means that If I am looking at Mountain rather than Hills for Ardennes? |
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