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PCM.daily Projects WT Stat Discussion
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| Arberg27 |
Posted on 09-06-2017 16:59
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Redsskull wrote:
I think he's right too. Contador is way too strong. Also, Porte has consistently been better than Contador since the 2016 tour, I think he deserves higher stats. Yes, since Dauphiné in 2016, has Porte been as good as Froome in mountains. This year, can he also give him resistance on time trial.
Edited by Arberg27 on 09-06-2017 17:11
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| AiZaK |
Posted on 11-06-2017 10:59
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My suggestions:
- Marc Soler MOUNTAIN 78 -> 76/77 For a few races in Cataluña and another one I think you can't give a 78 in Mountain
- Gaudu MOUNTAIN 76 -> 75 The same reason that Marc Soler
- Rolland MOUNTAIN 76 -> 77/78 Many years doing very well in mountains I think he deserves a little more
- Esteban Chaves HILL 79 -> 77 Chaves can't be better in hills than Albasini, Gasparotto,...
- Rui Costa HILL 78 -> 79
- Gasparotto HILL 78 -> 80 He is 1 of the best hilly riders
- Ion Izaguirre HILL 77 -> 78/79 he was amazing in Ardennes: 7º Amstel, 12º Fleche Wallonne and 5º in Liege
- D. Teuns HILL 77 -> 78 he was 3º in Fleche Wallonne
- Pozzovivo HILL 77 -> 78 Always is good in Ardennes
- Woods HILLS 77 -> 78 always very good in Ardennes too
- Mikel Nieve MOUNTAIN 77 -> 78 and HILL 78 -> 77
- Jose Joaquin Rojas HILL 76 -> 74/75 He was good in ONLY 1 race in the Ardennes, I say the same, in 1 race you cant give 76 him
- Konrad HILL 76 -> 77 He is better in hilly races than many riders with 76 in hills
- Ruben Fernandez (Movistar) MOUNTAIN 73 -> 74/75
- Kittel SPR 82 -> 83 he is the best sprinter of the world!
- Greipel SPR 82 -> 81
- Cavendish SPR 81 -> 82 i think he is better than Greipel
- Bouhanni SPR 79 -> 80
- Gaviria SPR 79 -> 80
- Gaviria and Ewan REC 66 -> 72? 74? I dont know the number but much more than 66, they showed that they can ride Giro de Italia without problems
- Peter Sagan SPR 80 -> 79 I know that its too difficult to vallue Sagan, because in 1 race he is second behind Kittel, and in another races he is 5º behind another sprinters like Groenewegen, Coquard, Modolo,... so I think maybe better 79
- Eisel COB 72 -> 73
- Pozzato SPR 74 -> 73
- Ivan Garcia Cortina COB -> 65 -> 69/70 he was working many time for the leaders in Paris Roubaix, and in another cobles races, he is good in cobbles races, he will be good rider in cobbles in the future
- Rafa Valls MOUNTAIN 75 -> 76
- Kwiatkowski MOUNTAIN 74 -> 75 and HILL 79 -> 80 |
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| Arberg27 |
Posted on 11-06-2017 12:07
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AiZaK wrote:
- Kittel SPR 82 -> 83 he is the best sprinter of the world!
Not in GTs.
Cavendish - Tour: 30 Giro: 7 Vuelta: 3
Greipel ----- Tour: 11 Giro: 7 Vuelta: 4
Kittel --------Tour: 9 Giro: 4 Vuelta: 1 |
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| AiZaK |
Posted on 11-06-2017 12:22
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In GTs there are a lot of factors, but I think Cavendish for example was like a Ewan, Gaviria, he was too young and he was in a good team like HTC-Columbia and he always went to GTs, Greipel in Lotto the same, Kittel during a few years he was in teams that he can't go to GTs, he was a TT rider, he becomes a supersprinter later than Cavs and Greipel, I think if you look theirs results in the last years, Kittel is the king |
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| Arberg27 |
Posted on 11-06-2017 12:39
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AiZaK wrote:
I think if you look theirs results in the last years, Kittel is the king
2015 to now:
Cavendish - Tour: 5
Greipel ----- Tour: 5 Giro: 5
Kittel --------Tour: 1 Giro: 2
2013 to now:
Cavendish - Tour: 7 Giro: 5
Greipel ----- Tour: 7 Giro: 5
Kittel --------Tour: 9 Giro: 4
2011 to now:
Cavendish - Tour: 15 Giro: 10
Greipel ----- Tour: 10 Giro: 5
Kittel --------Tour: 9 Giro: 4 Vuelta: 1
Edited by Arberg27 on 11-06-2017 12:53
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| Arberg27 |
Posted on 11-06-2017 13:06
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Froome 79/80/81 downhill |
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| AiZaK |
Posted on 11-06-2017 13:07
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Ok, but in my opinion Kittel is the best sprinter, I would give Kittel spr83 hill64, but Greipel spr81 and hill67, and Cavs spr82 and hill69 |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 26-11-2024 10:32
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| kotmob |
Posted on 11-06-2017 14:30
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froome descent +2
chaves climb -1
fuglsang climb +1
porte ftr +1
buchmann sta +2
bardet descent -1 |
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| Selwink |
Posted on 11-06-2017 14:35
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chaves climb -1
Why? Because in his first race since February he doesn't perform according to his stats? We'll at least have to await the Tour before judging, and even then a Lombardia win and a GC 3rd in Vuelta should still warrant such a stat IMO
buchmann sta +2
STA only kicks in after 190k or so. The Dauphiné should have no impact on that stat
porte ftr +1
Why?
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| matt17br |
Posted on 11-06-2017 14:57
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Why? Because in his first race since February he doesn't perform according to his stats? We'll at least have to await the Tour before judging, and even then a Lombardia win and a GC 3rd in Vuelta should still warrant such a stat IMO
He is coming from an injury, understandable he wouldn't be on a 2016 level too.
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| Paul23 |
Posted on 11-06-2017 15:12
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Arberg27 wrote:
AiZaK wrote:
I think if you look theirs results in the last years, Kittel is the king
2015 to now:
Cavendish - Tour: 5
Greipel ----- Tour: 5 Giro: 5
Kittel --------Tour: 1 Giro: 2
2013 to now:
Cavendish - Tour: 7 Giro: 5
Greipel ----- Tour: 7 Giro: 5
Kittel --------Tour: 9 Giro: 4
2011 to now:
Cavendish - Tour: 15 Giro: 10
Greipel ----- Tour: 10 Giro: 5
Kittel --------Tour: 9 Giro: 4 Vuelta: 1
exactly. But since 6 y/o wins are not important, Kittel is the better sprinter.
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 11-06-2017 17:06
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Aizak Based on some of the stat suggestions you've made, you haven't downloaded the Giro update stats as a lot of changes were made for those especially in RES etc.
Also you have to bear in mind that mtn stat plays a key role in hilly races (especially with the new game engine that the last edition has which is why riders like Izagirre are good with their current climbing stats.
Also no idea why you want much better rec for Ewan as he didn't ride last week of the Giro, we can only give better rec stats for sprinters when they actually ride the final week.
Mtn Stats: These are pretty much done now excluding Suisse and won't be changed for the big riders until the Tour. On the one hand Dauphine is a good climbing indicator for the Tour BUT on the other it can also give out a lot of false indicators as well about who we believe is good and who we believe is bad.
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| matt17br |
Posted on 11-06-2017 17:22
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Responding to Aizak's post. It really looks like you haven't taken a look at the new update or the stats sheet in the first post, it would have saved you a lot of time to look at it 
Rolland MOUNTAIN 76 -> 77/78 Many years doing very well in mountains I think he deserves a little more
He's already 77, not 76.
Esteban Chaves HILL 79 -> 77 Chaves can't be better in hills than Albasini, Gasparotto,...
He can, though, considering he's won Giro dell'Emilia and Giro di Lombardia besides always being among the best puncheurs in GTs and other stage races when it mattered.
Gasparotto HILL 78 -> 80 He is 1 of the best hilly riders
Not in 2017, and tell you what, not even in 2016 he was worth that much. Otherwise we'd have to give Valgren a 79 or 80 too.
D. Teuns HILL 77 -> 78 he was 3º in Fleche Wallonne
Be a bit more consistent with more suggestions, we can't, using the same logic, lower Soler and Rojas and raise Teuns after he's only had 1 really worthy result in 2017.
Mikel Nieve MOUNTAIN 77 -> 78 and HILL 78 -> 77
He already has these stats.
Kittel SPR 82 -> 83 he is the best sprinter of the world!
And that's reflected by his stats already, we've chosen not to award 83 to any sprinter.
Greipel SPR 82 -> 81
His ACC is lower than Cav and Kittel already, we'll have to wait until after the Tour to see whether he's still worth 82 or not. My guess is he'll be lowered.
Cavendish SPR 81 -> 82 i think he is better than Greipel
Cav is better than him in-game, because of his much better ACC.
Gaviria SPR 79 -> 80
He's 80 already.
Gaviria and Ewan REC 66 -> 72? 74? I dont know the number but much more than 66, they showed that they can ride Giro de Italia without problems
Gaviria has a rec of 73, Ewan has a rec of 66 since he retired during the 2nd week and he started suffering in the 2nd one already.
Peter Sagan SPR 80 -> 79 I know that its too difficult to vallue Sagan, because in 1 race he is second behind Kittel, and in another races he is 5º behind another sprinters like Groenewegen, Coquard, Modolo,... so I think maybe better 79
He's 79 though.
Eisel COB 72 -> 73
Based on what?
Ivan Garcia Cortina COB -> 65 -> 69/70 he was working many time for the leaders in Paris Roubaix, and in another cobles races, he is good in cobbles races, he will be good rider in cobbles in the future
He's 69 already.
Rafa Valls MOUNTAIN 75 -> 76
He's 76 already.
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| AiZaK |
Posted on 11-06-2017 22:35
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Ook i dont have PCM2016, but I downloaded in this post the first page your .cdb if there are a new DB... I dont know
Eisel for example he was doing a good work for SKY in Paris-Roubaix, I think 72 is too slow. For example Ventoso is 72, I think its ok, but Eisel is 1 level better than Ventoso |
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| matt17br |
Posted on 12-06-2017 09:07
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AiZaK wrote:
Ook i dont have PCM2016, but I downloaded in this post the first page your .cdb if there are a new DB... I dont know
Eisel for example he was doing a good work for SKY in Paris-Roubaix, I think 72 is too slow. For example Ventoso is 72, I think its ok, but Eisel is 1 level better than Ventoso
Thanks, I forgot to attach the V1.1 cdbs 
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| AiZaK |
Posted on 12-06-2017 09:32
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And Gasparotto, he was injuried in Ardennes, he fell in Amstel
Edited by AiZaK on 12-06-2017 09:38
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| bassiii |
Posted on 12-06-2017 11:01
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For me he has never shown that he deserves 80 hill, even though he has won Amstel twice |
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| Paul23 |
Posted on 12-06-2017 14:56
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Gasparotto is clearly not a 80. Gilbert is superior and has no 80 HI, so I think Enrico is fine in the db.
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| AiZaK |
Posted on 12-06-2017 15:20
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GASPAROTTO:
2016: 1º Amstel, 5º Fleche Wallonne, 12º Liege
2015: 8º Amstel, 15º Fleche Wallonne, 16º Liege
2014: 8º Amstel, 12º Liege
2013: 9º Amstel, 6º Liege, 5º Lombardia
2012: 1º Amstel, 11º Fleche Wallonne, 3º Liege
Seriously do you think he deserve only 78 in Hills?? He is better than Urán and other many riders with 78
In my opinion Gasparotto is 79/80 and Gilbert maybe 80 too |
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 12-06-2017 15:23
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2012 and 2013 are definately too long ago to use as a guide, otherwise a ton of stats would change.
2 Top10's and a Win in the last two years isn't exactly 80 material for Hills, especially given how Amstel and Fleche play out as 1km sprints. You need to look at how he goes in hilly stages and other hilly races, and there his results are ok but not consistent winning as 80 would need.
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![imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg](https://imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg)
