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PCM.daily Projects WT Stat Discussion
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| Arberg27 |
Posted on 01-06-2017 11:11
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Protected Rider
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Paul23 wrote:
Don't you get that backup stats matter and Sagan and GVA are far superior there, as well as Froome to Contador?
Froome: 75 ACC, 75 END and 77 REC
Contador 79 ACC, 77 END and 80 REC
Yes, very superior backup stats, especially ACC makes Contador better. His climbing abilities and ACC are not so good more. Open the eyes. He is no longer than the podium candidate for the Tour, only top 5.
Edited by Arberg27 on 01-06-2017 11:30
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| Arberg27 |
Posted on 01-06-2017 11:17
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Protected Rider
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marcoplv95 wrote:
How the fuck can you say EBH is worse than GVA and Sagan in MON. Hoooooly shit.
Eg:
GVA won a big mountain stage in tour last year.
Sagan won the gray shirt many times because of his outbreaks in mountains.
EBH nothing ??? |
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| matt17br |
Posted on 01-06-2017 11:31
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 10525
Joined: 28-09-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Huh
https://www.procyclingstats.com/race/T...16_Stage_4
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| bassiii |
Posted on 01-06-2017 11:36
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Under 23
Posts: 95
Joined: 28-03-2011
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Just a question but why do Debusschere and Gerrans have the highest RES? |
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| matt17br |
Posted on 01-06-2017 11:53
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 10525
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bassiii wrote:
Just a question but why do Debusschere and Gerrans have the highest RES?
In PCM 16, RES plays a disproportionately large role in making sure puncheurs have enough skills to perform well in all kinds of climbs, both shorter and longer ones.
Since the game was released, we've noticed that riders such as Gerrans and Gilbert, great puncheurs with lacking mountain skills, would be really disadvantaged, even in their favourite kinds of classics. On the other hand, puncheurs who could also climb longer ascents well, e.g. Valverde and Martin, would find themselves with a great advantage over them.
So, after a few tests we (Kentaurus) came up with a formula that more or less fixes this problem, involving the RES the riders had in our db in PCM 15, as well as their hill and mountain stats, that looked like this:
NewRS = OldRS + 0.75(HL-MT)
This way, riders such as Debusschere, Gerrans, Devolder, Gilbert and several others that had a high hill but much lower mountain would benefit and the classics would at least have realistic favourites. I agree that sorting by RES might be surprising and sort of ugly to look at, but it's really the only option available to make the game more playable.
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 01-06-2017 11:55
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Arberg27 wrote:
marcoplv95 wrote:
How the fuck can you say EBH is worse than GVA and Sagan in MON. Hoooooly shit.
Eg:
GVA won a big mountain stage in tour last year.
Sagan won the gray shirt many times because of his outbreaks in mountains.
EBH nothing ???
Old Pete really shouldn't mix colours in the washing machine.
Bassii: The RES stats are a result of the new game engine that came into play for PCM16 that left a lot of hill specialists unable to compete in races that they would normally do well in because their mtn stats were low for example riders like Gilbert, Gerrans etc. It was decided that it would be unrealistic to increase their mtn stats that much and it was seen that improved RES for these riders would improve their ability to do well in these races.
So a team member here Kentaurus created a formula using RES to compensate riders with a big gap between their mtn and hill stats, so the bigger the gap the bigger the RES.
The end result by and large works but does make looking at the RES stats illogical when you see certain riders like Bille or Fedi super high.
Strangely enough we are about to do a RES revision before the Giro Update to decrease some riders that we think don't deserve such a high res anymore BUT it will be a limited exercise because we have to be careful with tampering with it too much, as we don't want hill specialists to suffer in hilly terrain.
Also with PCM 17 due to come out the game engine may again be altered regarding this so we don't want to mess around too much. This whole topic has been a headache for us along with the eternal Sagan problem!
PS Matt posted a similar response as I was writing this!
Edited by Tafiolmo on 01-06-2017 11:58
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 01-06-2017 11:57
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World Champion
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Oh shit, he almost beaten De Tier, wow. 
Btw. i agree with Aaarberg that Froome is little big underrated compared to Contador, but it is tough task, when Contador cares about many races this year and is great in them, while Froome seems to care only about Tour so far this year.
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 01-06-2017 11:59
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World Champion
Posts: 14236
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Btw. Gerrans is having big decline i think, i would not count him as one of the best hilly specialists now. 
Tour of Norway is really not an indicator.
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 01-06-2017 12:02
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
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Avin Wargunnson wrote:
Oh shit, he almost beaten De Tier, wow.
Btw. i agree with Aaarberg that Froome is little big underrated compared to Contador, but it is tough task, when Contador cares about many races this year and is great in them, while Froome seems to care only about Tour so far this year.
Which is why there is no point doing any alterations with the big three Froome, Quintana and Contador until the Tour which is just around the corner. As the stats stand Froome is the best rider and would be the favourite in game to win with his superior climbing, TT, flat and of course the Sky train. For the others to win they need to be in top form and take their chances.
With the current stats and if playing the Tour I'd be confident of winning the Tour controlling Froome and Sky about 7 times out of 10 which I think are correct odds.
Sure Gerrans is declining hence the droping from 79 hill to 77 and he's declining so much that he even attacked at LBL which was a shock in itself!
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| bassiii |
Posted on 01-06-2017 12:13
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Under 23
Posts: 95
Joined: 28-03-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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Thanks matt and tafiolmo for the reply, still not really understand what Debusschere has to do with this but you guys know 100 times more about the way the stats work so I won't break my head over it |
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 25-11-2024 09:05
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| matt17br |
Posted on 01-06-2017 12:16
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 10525
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Debusschere simply happened to have already very good RES, very good hill, but below par MO, so our formula particularly liked him.
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| Arberg27 |
Posted on 01-06-2017 13:33
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1070
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Tafiolmo wrote:
Which is why there is no point doing any alterations with the big three Froome, Quintana and Contador until the Tour which is just around the corner. As the stats stand Froome is the best rider and would be the favourite in game to win with his superior climbing, TT, flat and of course the Sky train. For the others to win they need to be in top form and take their chances.
With the current stats and if playing the Tour I'd be confident of winning the Tour controlling Froome and Sky about 7 times out of 10 which I think are correct odds.
Sure Gerrans is declining hence the droping from 79 hill to 77 and he's declining so much that he even attacked at LBL which was a shock in itself!
Yes, you have said that for 7 years now...
3 big? There are only 1! If there is 3, it is Froome, Quintana and Porte.
No, Contador is better in your DB, because of ACC and END. ACC is very important. |
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| Paul23 |
Posted on 01-06-2017 13:38
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4411
Joined: 10-08-2011
PCM$: 400.00
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Arberg27 wrote:
Tafiolmo wrote:
Which is why there is no point doing any alterations with the big three Froome, Quintana and Contador until the Tour which is just around the corner. As the stats stand Froome is the best rider and would be the favourite in game to win with his superior climbing, TT, flat and of course the Sky train. For the others to win they need to be in top form and take their chances.
With the current stats and if playing the Tour I'd be confident of winning the Tour controlling Froome and Sky about 7 times out of 10 which I think are correct odds.
Sure Gerrans is declining hence the droping from 79 hill to 77 and he's declining so much that he even attacked at LBL which was a shock in itself!
Yes, you have said that for 7 years now...
3 big? There are only 1! If there is 3, it is Froome, Quintana and Porte.
No, Contador is better in your DB, because of ACC and END. ACC is very important.
Tafiolmo is only in the db Team for 1-2 years. Calm down.
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| Kalach |
Posted on 01-06-2017 14:07
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Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 880
Joined: 04-08-2012
PCM$: 300.00
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Arberg27 wrote:
Tafiolmo wrote:
Which is why there is no point doing any alterations with the big three Froome, Quintana and Contador until the Tour which is just around the corner. As the stats stand Froome is the best rider and would be the favourite in game to win with his superior climbing, TT, flat and of course the Sky train. For the others to win they need to be in top form and take their chances.
With the current stats and if playing the Tour I'd be confident of winning the Tour controlling Froome and Sky about 7 times out of 10 which I think are correct odds.
Sure Gerrans is declining hence the droping from 79 hill to 77 and he's declining so much that he even attacked at LBL which was a shock in itself!
Yes, you have said that for 7 years now...
3 big? There are only 1! If there is 3, it is Froome, Quintana and Porte.
No, Contador is better in your DB, because of ACC and END. ACC is very important.
@Arberg if you are so anti Contador lower him in your game as much as you like
Maybe you should consider to give him all stats at 50  I have noticed many times how you are complaining about this. And there is a simple solution - adjust it by yourself
Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth.
_____________________________________________
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 01-06-2017 14:26
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Kalach wrote:
Arberg27 wrote:
Tafiolmo wrote:
Which is why there is no point doing any alterations with the big three Froome, Quintana and Contador until the Tour which is just around the corner. As the stats stand Froome is the best rider and would be the favourite in game to win with his superior climbing, TT, flat and of course the Sky train. For the others to win they need to be in top form and take their chances.
With the current stats and if playing the Tour I'd be confident of winning the Tour controlling Froome and Sky about 7 times out of 10 which I think are correct odds.
Sure Gerrans is declining hence the droping from 79 hill to 77 and he's declining so much that he even attacked at LBL which was a shock in itself!
Yes, you have said that for 7 years now...
3 big? There are only 1! If there is 3, it is Froome, Quintana and Porte.
No, Contador is better in your DB, because of ACC and END. ACC is very important.
@Arberg if you are so anti Contador lower him in your game as much as you like
Maybe you should consider to give him all stats at 50 I have noticed many times how you are complaining about this. And there is a simple solution - adjust it by yourself
He's been told this many times before but chooses not to listen, which clearly demonstrates that he has other motives for posting here!
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| Thatguyeveryonehates |
Posted on 01-06-2017 15:37
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Domestique
Posts: 447
Joined: 01-05-2014
PCM$: 200.00
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contador mo81 / dh76 - not the climber he used to be but still really good downhill
arberg mo50 / dh85 - takes topics downhill really fast |
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| Paul23 |
Posted on 01-06-2017 15:48
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4411
Joined: 10-08-2011
PCM$: 400.00
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Thatguyeveryonehates wrote:
contador mo81 / dh76 - not the climber he used to be but still really good downhill
arberg mo50 / dh85 - takes topics downhill really fast
That was actually a nice joke, but could we please leave the hostility behind us. I'm also a weird guy sometimes. I also have my own opinion and I don't care if I hurt others with it, but this is not really the time or the place to go at each other, no offence to you. You didn't start the hostility. Please calm down guys.
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| catenaccio81 |
Posted on 02-06-2017 13:16
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Under 23
Posts: 50
Joined: 05-06-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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Arberg27 wrote:
Paul23 wrote:
Don't you get that backup stats matter and Sagan and GVA are far superior there, as well as Froome to Contador?
Froome: 75 ACC, 75 END and 77 REC
Contador 79 ACC, 77 END and 80 REC
Yes, very superior backup stats, especially ACC makes Contador better. His climbing abilities and ACC are not so good more. Open the eyes. He is no longer than the podium candidate for the Tour, only top 5.
What??  Are you serious?? I think we have a hater here
After Froome, the one who is more reliable for a victory nowadays is Contador.
If Contador is not in the podium this year is because he will have any accident or because he prefers to inmolate to have a posibility to win instead of have a podium. He always has shown that the only thing he wants is to win, not the podium. Just the opposite of all his rivals apart of Froome. |
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| Arberg27 |
Posted on 02-06-2017 14:33
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1070
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catenaccio81 wrote:
Arberg27 wrote:
Paul23 wrote:
Don't you get that backup stats matter and Sagan and GVA are far superior there, as well as Froome to Contador?
Froome: 75 ACC, 75 END and 77 REC
Contador 79 ACC, 77 END and 80 REC
Yes, very superior backup stats, especially ACC makes Contador better. His climbing abilities and ACC are not so good more. Open the eyes. He is no longer than the podium candidate for the Tour, only top 5.
What?? Are you serious?? I think we have a hater here
After Froome, the one who is more reliable for a victory nowadays is Contador.
If Contador is not in the podium this year is because he will have any accident or because he prefers to inmolate to have a posibility to win instead of have a podium. He always has shown that the only thing he wants is to win, not the podium. Just the opposite of all his rivals apart of Froome.  |
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| Paul23 |
Posted on 02-06-2017 14:39
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4411
Joined: 10-08-2011
PCM$: 400.00
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Let's face it, Arberg is not completely wrong. Froome is basically the best GT rider in the world. But on the other hand, he's a blind Contador hater.
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