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PCM.daily Projects WT Stat Discussion
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| matt17br |
Posted on 30-05-2017 21:21
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 10525
Joined: 28-09-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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marcoplv95 wrote:
matt17br wrote:
I have no idea why you guys keep on posting these 82-78 stats lists and only take into account MO. What about all the other backups? Going in-depth about one single rider is a lot more helpful than just typing out your opinion without even argumenting it - like most of you do. We get it, you also watch cycling.
I did, and you completely ignored me, twice.
Then they do what you don't want to, and you reply...that makes no sense xD
Sigh... there we go again. We had this exact exchange like 9 months ago.
If I don't agree on some point I'm gonna call bullshit. If I find your arguments totally valid I won't reply along the lines of "ok" to every single suggestion.
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| rdz1201 |
Posted on 30-05-2017 21:40
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Amateur
Posts: 7
Joined: 16-07-2015
PCM$: 200.00
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I think Sagan's 72 in MON is too much. OK, he won the California 2 years ago, but he's not a climber, and now i can get a top10 in any Grand Tour with him, which is a bit irrealistic. He would still be a beast with 69 MON, for example. He could get +1 in HIL instead of this.
I also think Poels is a bit overrated, he could get -1 MON
After the Giro, in my opinion these stats could be improved:
Dumoulin +1/2 MON, +2 STA, +2 DHL
Pozzovivo +1 MON, -2 TTR
Hirt MON +1
Pinot SPR +1
Kiserlovski, Goncalves MON +1
Landa DHL +3
Tratnik TTR +6, PRL +6 (68 and 66 is very low for him)
Kruijswijk MON -1
Gaviria SPR +1 |
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| matt17br |
Posted on 30-05-2017 21:43
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 10525
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PCM$: 200.00
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Sagan took downgrades to MO and HI already.
Also: https://pcmdaily.com/forum/viewthread....st_1237950
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| jandal7 |
Posted on 30-05-2017 22:58
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World Champion
Posts: 11395
Joined: 17-12-2014
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Thatguyeveryonehates wrote:
i might be wrong but it seems to me acceleration makes a big difference
ive run a few races with Chaves and Landa in the same form
the difference is night and day
Chaves blows Landa out of the water.
im tempted to make a bunch of riders with the same stats except acceleration and put them all in the same mountain race
a) that's realistic (maybe not by margins you described but it is)
b) not all mountain riders have same stats (:roll) so you'd be running a test you know would be biased and have the results to support your point 
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 25-11-2024 19:17
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| Thatguyeveryonehates |
Posted on 30-05-2017 23:02
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Domestique
Posts: 447
Joined: 01-05-2014
PCM$: 200.00
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you misunderstand me
a) its realistic my problem is the margins as you say may be too big
b) that doesnt make sense
im talking about a test to see how much of a difference acc really makes
say make all the teams have a leader thats has every stat exactly the same but different acceleration |
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 31-05-2017 09:10
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Raziz: That was a good post you did a page back with some constructive points BUT I do think you are being overly generous with Talansky at 78, to get that he would need to do very well in bigger races in June and July. Keep these quality posts coming!
RDZ: Nearly all of those suggestions have already been done about a week ago (since the last DB upload) and will appear in the Giro stats update which I hope will be next week.
btw Sagan is now 71 mtn and 75 hill and if he still manages to get high in GT's we'll continue to decrease him.
Sky riders
Also I've seen a few posts about Sky riders and we have done some work on them and will be like so:
Landa 80/77
Poels 79/79
Henao 78/80
Thomas 78/77 (with of course huge other stats)
Nieve 78/77
Edited by Tafiolmo on 31-05-2017 14:13
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| ziga007 |
Posted on 31-05-2017 09:20
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 388
Joined: 24-06-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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I played Tour de France on normal and Sagan finsihed 14 in Gc.
Alberto Contador
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 31-05-2017 09:26
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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ziga007 wrote:
I played Tour de France on normal and Sagan finsihed 14 in Gc.
Was that on 72 mtn and 76 hill?
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| ziga007 |
Posted on 31-05-2017 09:28
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Neo-Pro
Posts: 388
Joined: 24-06-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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Yes
Alberto Contador
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 31-05-2017 09:45
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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He's one point less now in both and if that doesn't work then further decreases but of course we have to be reasonable about it.
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| bassiii |
Posted on 31-05-2017 10:14
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Under 23
Posts: 95
Joined: 28-03-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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Imo you can decrease his MO until 68/69 but in HI 75 really is the minimum |
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| AiZaK |
Posted on 31-05-2017 11:08
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1190
Joined: 13-04-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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I think Sagan with 70 in mountain its perfect |
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| Raziz |
Posted on 31-05-2017 11:30
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Domestique
Posts: 552
Joined: 22-12-2016
PCM$: 200.00
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Tafiolmo wrote:
Raziz: That was a good post you did a page back with some constructive points BUT I do think you are being overly generous with Talansky at 78, to get that he would need to do very well in bigger races in June and July. Keep these quality posts coming!
RDZ: Nearly all of those suggestions have already been done about a week ago (since the last DB upload) and will appear in the Giro stats update which I hope will be next week.
btw Sagan is now 71 mtn and 75 hill and if he still manages to get high in GT's we'll continue to decrease him.
Sky riders
Also I've seen a few posts about Sky riders and we have done some work on them and will be like so:
Landa 80/77
Poels 79/79
Henao 78/80
Thomas 78/77 (with of course huge other stats)
Nieve 77/78
Talansky deserves that stat more so because of his Vuelta performance last year finishing 5th! |
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| Kalach |
Posted on 31-05-2017 11:34
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Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 880
Joined: 04-08-2012
PCM$: 300.00
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Regarding of Sagan - I think decreasing Hill stat below 75 is not corresponding to reality. He definitely is good at Hills. In current season he beat GC contenders like Quintana and Pinot => I think it was at Tirreno.
If the problem is that he is high in GC standings in Grand Tours thats also because of poor AI in the game. But lowering his Hill stat is not realistic. It would be better to go down with MO (68-69 would be fine as was suggested).
Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth.
_____________________________________________
PCM Velogames Championship - Top Results
* 1st Tour de Suisse ('23)
* 1st Tour de Romandie ('19, '18)
* 1st Tour de Pologne ('20, '19)
* 2nd Tour of California ('19)
* 2nd Tour de Suisse ('18)
* 3rd Tour de France ('23, '21)
* 3rd Giro d’Italia ('22)
* 3rd Vuelta Espana ('23)
* 3rd Autumn Classics ('19, '18)
* 9th Spring Classics ('18)
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| AiZaK |
Posted on 31-05-2017 11:48
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1190
Joined: 13-04-2008
PCM$: 200.00
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Poels maybe better 1 less in mountain?? (78) |
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 31-05-2017 12:03
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World Champion
Posts: 14236
Joined: 20-06-2011
PCM$: 300.00
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Kalach wrote:
Regarding of Sagan - I think decreasing Hill stat below 75 is not corresponding to reality. He definitely is good at Hills. In current season he beat GC contenders like Quintana and Pinot => I think it was at Tirreno.
If the problem is that he is high in GC standings in Grand Tours thats also because of poor AI in the game. But lowering his Hill stat is not realistic. It would be better to go down with MO (68-69 would be fine as was suggested).
Even 75 hill is laughable, when he rides the hills like 77-78 rider if he cares. I also think that lowered MO stat under 70 would be enough to disqualify him from top20 GC battle right? It is bending the database because of terrible AI, but probably the only good way...
Btw. it is quite funny that top stats are lower and lower every year in Daily database, i wonder when we will have Froome as best climber with MO stat under 80. 
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| Kalach |
Posted on 31-05-2017 12:12
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Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 880
Joined: 04-08-2012
PCM$: 300.00
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Avin Wargunnson wrote:
Kalach wrote:
Regarding of Sagan - I think decreasing Hill stat below 75 is not corresponding to reality. He definitely is good at Hills. In current season he beat GC contenders like Quintana and Pinot => I think it was at Tirreno.
If the problem is that he is high in GC standings in Grand Tours thats also because of poor AI in the game. But lowering his Hill stat is not realistic. It would be better to go down with MO (68-69 would be fine as was suggested).
Even 75 hill is laughable, when he rides the hills like 77-78 rider if he cares. I also think that lowered MO stat under 70 would be enough to disqualify him from top20 GC battle right? It is bending the database because of terrible AI, but probably the only good way...
Btw. it is quite funny that top stats are lower and lower every year in Daily database, i wonder when we will have Froome as best climber with MO stat under 80.
Yes absolutely agree with your comment. Regarding of lowering the stats it seems that it is pretty hard to find the realistic balance given that AI in the game 
Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth.
_____________________________________________
PCM Velogames Championship - Top Results
* 1st Tour de Suisse ('23)
* 1st Tour de Romandie ('19, '18)
* 1st Tour de Pologne ('20, '19)
* 2nd Tour of California ('19)
* 2nd Tour de Suisse ('18)
* 3rd Tour de France ('23, '21)
* 3rd Giro d’Italia ('22)
* 3rd Vuelta Espana ('23)
* 3rd Autumn Classics ('19, '18)
* 9th Spring Classics ('18)
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| matt17br |
Posted on 31-05-2017 12:25
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 10525
Joined: 28-09-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Avin Wargunnson wrote:
Kalach wrote:
Regarding of Sagan - I think decreasing Hill stat below 75 is not corresponding to reality. He definitely is good at Hills. In current season he beat GC contenders like Quintana and Pinot => I think it was at Tirreno.
If the problem is that he is high in GC standings in Grand Tours thats also because of poor AI in the game. But lowering his Hill stat is not realistic. It would be better to go down with MO (68-69 would be fine as was suggested).
Even 75 hill is laughable, when he rides the hills like 77-78 rider if he cares. I also think that lowered MO stat under 70 would be enough to disqualify him from top20 GC battle right? It is bending the database because of terrible AI, but probably the only good way...
Btw. it is quite funny that top stats are lower and lower every year in Daily database, i wonder when we will have Froome as best climber with MO stat under 80.
What? The top stat in MO is 83.
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 31-05-2017 12:29
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Raziz
Yes the Vuelta was a return for Talansky BUT California is not a quality field which is why Suisse, Dauphine and Tour (whichever he rides) will determine if he gets a further increase.
Sagan we have now decided to go wiith a 70/75 option because any lower in hill as Arvin mentioned would be an injustice. Also to keep the balance we have also lowered in mtn similar riders like GVA,EBH and Benoot a point as well.
A Sagan alternative though could be 69/76 or if we want to be generous 70/76, any thoughts post them because Sagan is the most problematic rider always for the DB
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| Kalach |
Posted on 31-05-2017 12:36
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Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 880
Joined: 04-08-2012
PCM$: 300.00
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Tafiolmo wrote:
Raziz
Yes the Vuelta was a return for Talansky BUT California is not a quality field which is why Suisse, Dauphine and Tour (whichever he rides) will determine if he gets a further increase.
Sagan we have now decided to go wiith a 70/75 option because any lower in hill as Arvin mentioned would be an injustice. Also to keep the balance we have also lowered in mtn similar riders like GVA,EBH and Benoot a point as well.
A Sagan alternative though could be 69/76 or if we want to be generous 70/76, any thoughts post them because Sagan is the most problematic rider always for the DB
The best alternative (which you did not mention) would be 69/77. I feel that 76 hill stat...well he is definitely a little bit better. But yeah 77 would be a max limit.
Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth.
_____________________________________________
PCM Velogames Championship - Top Results
* 1st Tour de Suisse ('23)
* 1st Tour de Romandie ('19, '18)
* 1st Tour de Pologne ('20, '19)
* 2nd Tour of California ('19)
* 2nd Tour de Suisse ('18)
* 3rd Tour de France ('23, '21)
* 3rd Giro d’Italia ('22)
* 3rd Vuelta Espana ('23)
* 3rd Autumn Classics ('19, '18)
* 9th Spring Classics ('18)
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