|
Giro d'Italia 2017 - Week 2
|
| ruben |
Posted on 14-05-2017 17:31
|
Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 7721
Joined: 23-10-2006
PCM$: 200.00
|
Kalach wrote:
Hmm nibali could not maintain tempo. But please chalenge somebody nairo
Well if somebody could take out the entire Movistar team, then Dumoulin or Pinot could challenge. If not, then they'll just do the 'we send 3 guys up front and let Quintana ride towards them' trick in one of the multi mountain stages. |
| |
|
|
| Riis123 |
Posted on 14-05-2017 18:53
|
Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5075
Joined: 07-08-2008
PCM$: 200.00
|
Legendary win on a legendary mountain, the Mortirolo of the Apennines, what a climb and what a spectacle!
More of this, please. Very good racing the last 2 days, we kinda deserved that after the first not so great week. |
| |
|
|
| Guido Mukk |
Posted on 14-05-2017 19:28
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15830
Joined: 08-02-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
Riis123 wrote:
Legendary win on a legendary mountain, the Mortirolo of the Apennines, what a climb and what a spectacle!
More of this, please. Very good racing the last 2 days, we kinda deserved that after the first not so great week.
I would like tap on riders shoulders. I can not remember tour when we did not have any big crashes with bad injuries.
I has been narrow street sprint stages, windy stages. They managed to get true everything almost clean. Well done |
| |
|
|
| Riis123 |
Posted on 14-05-2017 19:35
|
Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5075
Joined: 07-08-2008
PCM$: 200.00
|
Guido Mukk wrote:
Riis123 wrote:
Legendary win on a legendary mountain, the Mortirolo of the Apennines, what a climb and what a spectacle!
More of this, please. Very good racing the last 2 days, we kinda deserved that after the first not so great week.
I would like tap on riders shoulders. I can not remember tour when we did not have any big crashes with bad injuries.
I has been narrow street sprint stages, windy stages. They managed to get true everything almost clean. Well done
What are you talking about? |
| |
|
|
| nils erik |
Posted on 14-05-2017 20:12
|
Domestique
Posts: 477
Joined: 28-04-2010
PCM$: 200.00
|
I immediately knew that it would be complaints here when I first saw the Kelderman/Sky crash, and had to make a comeback post here to share my views on the case:
MCs are as we all know a big part of a cycling race. For safety, to give information or to photograph the peloton; they mostly do a great job. I don't know how many of you have ridden elite races, but I definitely have, and therefore I have got some knowledge that most of you probably haven't. When a breakaway is close to getting caught, when two groups merge or whenever something is happening that makes an mc excess, they'll stop at the roadside and wait for the peloton to pass. Naturally it is best to stop in a junction or a point where the road widens, but those points are not always at hand, even in a big race like the Giro. The stop of the mc was therefore quite a natural sign on a road stage; and it happens a lot of times outside the tv pictures. This stop-point was maybe not so well thought out; but 90 % of the blame shall go to the peloton, that made no sign at all that there was an obstacle in the road.
Pity for Sky, pity for Kelderman, but blaming the mc for the crash is just being a bad loser; which we btw have heard from Sky before. |
| |
|
|
| Croatia14 |
Posted on 14-05-2017 20:13
|
Directeur Sportif
Posts: 9099
Joined: 13-03-2013
PCM$: 2100.00
|
just here to praise Tanel Kangert for being a great replacement 
|
| |
|
|
| Ad Bot |
Posted on 28-11-2024 18:17
|
Bot Agent
Posts: Countless
Joined: 23.11.09
|
|
| IP: None |
|
|
| Riis123 |
Posted on 14-05-2017 20:18
|
Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5075
Joined: 07-08-2008
PCM$: 200.00
|
But pretty bad timing to exactly hold there on the downhill/flat section, which was very short, compared to uphill, no? |
| |
|
|
| Guido Mukk |
Posted on 14-05-2017 20:22
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15830
Joined: 08-02-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
Riis123 wrote:
Guido Mukk wrote:
Riis123 wrote:
Legendary win on a legendary mountain, the Mortirolo of the Apennines, what a climb and what a spectacle!
More of this, please. Very good racing the last 2 days, we kinda deserved that after the first not so great week.
I would like tap on riders shoulders. I can not remember tour when we did not have any big crashes with bad injuries.
I has been narrow street sprint stages, windy stages. They managed to get true everything almost clean. Well done
What are you talking about?
I am talking about crash free first week. There almost always horrible mass crashes at first week. Almost clean riding this time |
| |
|
|
| Aquarius97 |
Posted on 14-05-2017 20:37
|
Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 4191
Joined: 13-09-2015
PCM$: 300.00
|
nils erik wrote:
I immediately knew that it would be complaints here when I first saw the Kelderman/Sky crash, and had to make a comeback post here to share my views on the case:
MCs are as we all know a big part of a cycling race. For safety, to give information or to photograph the peloton; they mostly do a great job. I don't know how many of you have ridden elite races, but I definitely have, and therefore I have got some knowledge that most of you probably haven't. When a breakaway is close to getting caught, when two groups merge or whenever something is happening that makes an mc excess, they'll stop at the roadside and wait for the peloton to pass. Naturally it is best to stop in a junction or a point where the road widens, but those points are not always at hand, even in a big race like the Giro. The stop of the mc was therefore quite a natural sign on a road stage; and it happens a lot of times outside the tv pictures. This stop-point was maybe not so well thought out; but 90 % of the blame shall go to the peloton, that made no sign at all that there was an obstacle in the road.
Pity for Sky, pity for Kelderman, but blaming the mc for the crash is just being a bad loser; which we btw have heard from Sky before.
Some riders have said that there was a right-hand turn just before where the moto was stopped, so they barely had time to advise anyone
|
| |
|
|
| Guido Mukk |
Posted on 14-05-2017 22:46
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15830
Joined: 08-02-2007
PCM$: 200.00
|
Croatia14 wrote:
just here to praise Tanel Kangert for being a great replacement
he admitted that Cataldo helped him a lot.
He is not leader type rider, and not explosive one. But can keep himself with experience around top 10 true Giro.
Beating today riders like Kruijswijk and Zakarin was really something. |
| |
|
|
| ringo182 |
Posted on 15-05-2017 08:09
|
Classics Specialist
Posts: 3472
Joined: 03-01-2008
PCM$: 1348.00
|
Well that's the Giro done then. Quintana will win like everyone knew he would win.
It's a shame Thomas and Yates are out because they could both have potentially been in that group behind Quintana of Nibali, Pinot, Dumoulin and Mollema to at least make the race for the podium a bit more exciting.
Bloody Motorbikes.
"Ringo is exactly right", Shonak - 8 September 2016
|
| |
|
|
| Croatia14 |
Posted on 15-05-2017 08:14
|
Directeur Sportif
Posts: 9099
Joined: 13-03-2013
PCM$: 2100.00
|
for sure Cataldo was a great help, yes, and Kangert is also no type of winning a GT - still, he might have a good shot on the Top10 with his decent TT, and might even be able to take a hard stage with his sprint...
for the crash theme I am absolutely with nils erik btw...
well, Pinot looked good and so did Dumoulin - last words are surely not spoken yet...
|
| |
|
|
| ringo182 |
Posted on 15-05-2017 12:54
|
Classics Specialist
Posts: 3472
Joined: 03-01-2008
PCM$: 1348.00
|
nils erik wrote:
Pity for Sky, pity for Kelderman, but blaming the mc for the crash is just being a bad loser; which we btw have heard from Sky before.
I think it's a bit harsh calling Sky bad losers. Their entire Giro has been destroyed though no fault of their own, whoever is at fault. They are entitled to blame someone.
"Ringo is exactly right", Shonak - 8 September 2016
|
| |
|
|
| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 15-05-2017 13:22
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 18187
Joined: 12-05-2012
PCM$: 0.00
|
I'm sure they'll blame anyone, but it's part of racing that to finish first first you have to finish (or finish uninjured). Quintana, Pinot, Dumoulin (who's team was involved), Mollema, Nibali, Pozzo, Kangert, Kruisjwijck, TVG, Jungels all made it to the end of the day without getting involved. One hand, bad luck they were involved, on the other if so many other GC hopefuls got by fine Sky should have been able to get one guy past as well.
On the crash: the moto could have been more off the road yes, but at least he was as far too one side as possible and stationary. You could have replaced it with a parked car, a parked rider, a barrier, a fallen tree or something else stationary and the result would be the same.
Riders can expect a certain amount of empty road with no issues, but they have to do their part and be aware that there might be something ahead to avoid. Certainly a different incident to other moto ones where a rider has been hit by a moto, rather than a rider hitting a moto.
|
| |
|
|
| ringo182 |
Posted on 15-05-2017 13:54
|
Classics Specialist
Posts: 3472
Joined: 03-01-2008
PCM$: 1348.00
|
TheManxMissile wrote:
I'm sure they'll blame anyone, but it's part of racing that to finish first first you have to finish (or finish uninjured). Quintana, Pinot, Dumoulin (who's team was involved), Mollema, Nibali, Pozzo, Kangert, Kruisjwijck, TVG, Jungels all made it to the end of the day without getting involved. One hand, bad luck they were involved, on the other if so many other GC hopefuls got by fine Sky should have been able to get one guy past as well.
Is that a joke? You are saying it was Sky's fault their team got taken out by a collision between a parked motorbike and a Sunweb rider?
Who's responsible for the crash is neither here nor there. Crashes happen and it is bad luck sometimes. The Motorbike shouldn't have been there, Sunweb should have reacted sooner, BMC should have allowed them to move across the road. But to say Sky "should have been able to get one guy past as well" is just ridiculous.
"Ringo is exactly right", Shonak - 8 September 2016
|
| |
|
|
| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 15-05-2017 14:11
|
Tour de France Champion
Posts: 18187
Joined: 12-05-2012
PCM$: 0.00
|
ringo182 wrote:
TheManxMissile wrote:
I'm sure they'll blame anyone, but it's part of racing that to finish first first you have to finish (or finish uninjured). Quintana, Pinot, Dumoulin (who's team was involved), Mollema, Nibali, Pozzo, Kangert, Kruisjwijck, TVG, Jungels all made it to the end of the day without getting involved. One hand, bad luck they were involved, on the other if so many other GC hopefuls got by fine Sky should have been able to get one guy past as well.
Is that a joke? You are saying it was Sky's fault their team got taken out by a collision between a parked motorbike and a Sunweb rider?
I didn't say it was Sky's fault. If i did i would have used the phrase "It was Sky's fault".
Bad luck sucks, but when all the other favorites (bar Adam) come through unscathed you have to consider what Sky could have done differently to get at least one of their two contenders by. They could have split up their riders in the peloton. The riders could have reacted slightly diferent. etc. All hypothetical of course, but the riders than win are the ones that avoid issues and Sky seems to have something of a problem with luck and the Giro.
|
| |
|
|
| ringo182 |
Posted on 15-05-2017 14:22
|
Classics Specialist
Posts: 3472
Joined: 03-01-2008
PCM$: 1348.00
|
The Sky riders were riding in a line, the same as every other team was riding in a line. Just like all teams do at all races when you are protecting a rider.
Landa has been given number one, but Thomas is the leader. The whole two leader thing is rubbish. At best Landa has a free role some of the time. At this time he was riding for Thomas.
If the crash had happened on the opposite side of the road it would have taken out another team. Baring having a Crystal ball I don't see what Sky could/should have done differently.
How differently would you react if the rider in front of you goes down at +30mph?
"Ringo is exactly right", Shonak - 8 September 2016
|
| |
|
|
| StevenGreen |
Posted on 15-05-2017 14:53
|
Domestique
Posts: 571
Joined: 25-12-2011
PCM$: 200.00
|
it's actually quite common that team members don't ride all together - just in case. Especially if you have two leaders it'd be wise to have them ride apart from each other. Crashes can happen anytime, this one happened just before the final climb, where the peloton is always nervous. It is a risk you take if you have most of your team (or both of your contenders) in the same spot. |
| |
|
|
| nils erik |
Posted on 15-05-2017 15:11
|
Domestique
Posts: 477
Joined: 28-04-2010
PCM$: 200.00
|
ringo182 wrote:
If the crash had happened on the opposite side of the road it would have taken out another team.
Crashes with mcs on the right side happen only as a result of technical trouble or indefinite stupidity, in other words extremely rare. All MCs (or anything/anyone else) are trained to stop on the left side of the road, and thus everyone in the peloton knows that the left side is about 100% times more risky. When you want to stay out of trouble, keep right. |
| |
|
|
| Kalach |
Posted on 16-05-2017 08:31
|
Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 880
Joined: 04-08-2012
PCM$: 300.00
|
I was just thinking about Nibali. He has 4 Grand Tour wins to his name. But it looked to me that he has always some kind of avoided the best GC threat in his grand tour camapaign.
2013 Giro: Well there was old Cadel Evans and upcoming grand tour star Rigoberto Uran (Okay, he has never fulfiled his Grand Tour potential). But none of them could challenge Nibali either because of age (Cadel faded in GTs from 2012) or not enough experience (Uran?).
2014 Tour: I think everybody knows that if Froome and Contador had not crashed Nibali would have been only 3rd.
2016 Giro: Again, no Froome, Quintana or Contador. Well there was Chavez and Kruiswijk but.....
And then 2010 vuelta: Okey there were Frank Schleck, Rodriguez and Sastre.
I do not want to discredit Nibali`s win I was just thinking about his Grand Tour wins.
Edited by Kalach on 16-05-2017 08:33
Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth.
_____________________________________________
PCM Velogames Championship - Top Results
* 1st Tour de Suisse ('23)
* 1st Tour de Romandie ('19, '18)
* 1st Tour de Pologne ('20, '19)
* 2nd Tour of California ('19)
* 2nd Tour de Suisse ('18)
* 3rd Tour de France ('23, '21)
* 3rd Giro d’Italia ('22)
* 3rd Vuelta Espana ('23)
* 3rd Autumn Classics ('19, '18)
* 9th Spring Classics ('18)
|
| |
|
![imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg](https://imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg)
