Wrong in all ways, shapes and forms. A startlist cannot be bad, or weak, or good, or strong. It's the riders making the race, and the riders riding the race should only be compared to other riders racing, not those who are not racing for whatever reason.
Manager of Team Popo4Ever p/b Morshynska in the PCM.Daily Man-Game
I wonder which will be QS strategy. If they will do their typical tactic of sending some domestiques into the attack so it's up to other teams to chase, or if they will do something like what Belgium did in the last Worlds, like all together and controlling every possible attack
I think that if the go with the latter they will fail really bad
Wrong in all ways, shapes and forms. A startlist cannot be bad, or weak, or good, or strong. It's the riders making the race, and the riders riding the race should only be compared to other riders racing, not those who are not racing for whatever reason.
I just spilled my coffee. That was such a funny reply. Lol
There is a difference between absolute strength and relative strength, you are talking about the latter, I am talking about the former.
Edit: In other words, according to you, a startlist consisting of Carlos Betancur, Mads Kaggestad, Anders Lund, Theo Bos, Julian Arredondo, Benjamin Noval etc. is as 'strong' or as 'weak' as one consisting of Valverde, Contador, Gilbert, Froome, Sagan etc. since we should only compare the startlist to those who are riding. Have I understood it correctly? And sorry I couldn't take that response more seriously, its just so.... yeah, I dno what to say.
Gosh. Of course you can say whether a start list is loaded or a bit mediocre comparing different years to each other.
For example, the Tour de France 2012 had a relatively lacklustre startlist or peloton going into the race compared to the strength of the 2013 startlist. Overall a lot better depth the year after since Contador was back, Quintana was a force, Rodriguez was present, Valverde was good again etc. etc.
Likewise, the 2015 Giro had a very mediocre startlist (Contador, 2 Astana riders, Urán and Porte - Amador finished 4th) compared to that of 2017 which has so much more depth and which cycling fans already can tell will be in insane amount of good GT-riders (considering its the Giro).
Basically, Im trying to tell you your post is completely nonsensical.
Edited by Riis123 on 06-04-2017 22:13
Croatia14 wrote:
what the fuck to I rerad in the P-R thread rooting for Stybs I guess, but I fear that QuickStep will ride for Boonen, who won't stand a chance against the best though - still Tommeke deserves to get this chance one last time!
Most uninformed post of the year
Stybar is bad this year, Tommeke has only has this race ind mind for a year and he is better prepared than he has been in a long time. I would have respected your post more if you had referred to Terpstra who got a legit shot at winning this race and is one of the favourites/big outsiders, Stybar aint.
oh Riis, good old Fanboy goes on it again...I know that Tommeke has been in better form than Stybar, still Zdenek has everything in it to be a contender on form (at least he is the far better cobbler than Gaviria for now)...Boonen though is worse than Terpstra surely and also than Trentin this season.
Just stop your comments of these kind please, they lack in respect, objectivity, knowledge and humor
edit: referring to your initial comment on fjhoekies post mostly with the final sentenseEdited by Croatia14 on 06-04-2017 23:03
Wrong in all ways, shapes and forms. A startlist cannot be bad, or weak, or good, or strong. It's the riders making the race, and the riders riding the race should only be compared to other riders racing, not those who are not racing for whatever reason.
What
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
Croatia14 wrote:
what the fuck to I rerad in the P-R thread rooting for Stybs I guess, but I fear that QuickStep will ride for Boonen, who won't stand a chance against the best though - still Tommeke deserves to get this chance one last time!
Most uninformed post of the year
Stybar is bad this year, Tommeke has only has this race ind mind for a year and he is better prepared than he has been in a long time. I would have respected your post more if you had referred to Terpstra who got a legit shot at winning this race and is one of the favourites/big outsiders, Stybar aint.
oh Riis, good old Fanboy goes on it again...I know that Tommeke has been in better form than Stybar, still Zdenek has everything in it to be a contender on form (at least he is the far better cobbler than Gaviria for now)...Boonen though is worse than Terpstra surely and also than Trentin this season.
Just stop your comments of these kind please, they lack in respect, objectivity, knowledge and humor
edit: referring to your initial comment on fjhoekies post mostly with the final sentense
But Stybar has really no chance, he is in awful form and Tommeke is clearly the best built QS rider for Roubaix by default, seen by his 4 roubaix wins. Trentin is good but not a really cobbler suited to the big big stones of roubaix, whilst Terpstra is literally the worst leader you can imagine but pretty good in an opportunistic role. Plus it's Tommeke's last race. The PR value of Tommeke is bigger than Terpstra winning. If Quick Step doesn't ride for Tommeke, Lefevere should be kicked out of Belgium.
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
Croatia14 wrote:
what the fuck to I rerad in the P-R thread rooting for Stybs I guess, but I fear that QuickStep will ride for Boonen, who won't stand a chance against the best though - still Tommeke deserves to get this chance one last time!
Most uninformed post of the year
Stybar is bad this year, Tommeke has only has this race ind mind for a year and he is better prepared than he has been in a long time. I would have respected your post more if you had referred to Terpstra who got a legit shot at winning this race and is one of the favourites/big outsiders, Stybar aint.
oh Riis, good old Fanboy goes on it again...I know that Tommeke has been in better form than Stybar, still Zdenek has everything in it to be a contender on form (at least he is the far better cobbler than Gaviria for now)...Boonen though is worse than Terpstra surely and also than Trentin this season.
Just stop your comments of these kind please, they lack in respect, objectivity, knowledge and humor
edit: referring to your initial comment on fjhoekies post mostly with the final sentense
You are seriously rating Stybar over Boonen because Stybar has 'everything to win it'. Yet, Boonen has won it 4 times while Stybar has been racing like an above average Veranda Willems-rider lately.
And no, stop saying Trentin is better at Roubaix than Boonen. This has absolutely nothing to do with me fanboying or whatever is the argument whenever I say something that people disagree on. Nonsense at its finest again. And disrespectful if I might add. Trentin is a mighty fine rider tho, nothing but respect for him.
Terpstra has a chance and is Quick Step's second best rider for Roubaix and definitely one of the best in the world on the cobbles. But he has to won solo, Tommeke does not.
Its all in for Boonen and Boonen will be one of the best riders in the race. Look at previews. Look at bookmakers, Look at Cyclingnews' forum. Me saying that Tom Boonen is one of the favourites, if not the biggest favourite has nothing to do with fanboying. What is has something to do with is the collective wisdom of cycling detractors (apparently apart from Daily users who have nothing better to do than to come up with the nonsense, sorry, that you just came up with - Stybar.. oh god)
Let me make it clear again to guys like Croatia who apparently still doesn't get it: Roubaix is a totally different beast than the flemish races. There is a reason why the 2nd best rider of this cobbled campaign doesn't even ride Roubaix. Its so different.
There is a reason why types like Stannard and Hayman can compete in this race while they stand no chance at more explosive races such as E-3 and Flanders. Totally different ballgame.
Wrong in all ways, shapes and forms. A startlist cannot be bad, or weak, or good, or strong. It's the riders making the race, and the riders riding the race should only be compared to other riders racing, not those who are not racing for whatever reason.
What
Literally some of the most bullshit I've ever read on a forum.
- I see why Boonen is the leader for historical reasons
- Stybar should not be the captain for QuickStep and currently is not in shape to be one of the 2 best cobblers at QuickStep
- that won't stop me rooting for him for personal reasons
- you're general fanboyism and attitude towards objective discussion is seriously annoying
- Boonens chances to win are low
as to state now:
- I am aware that Stybars chances to win are lower than 0,5%
- I see why Boonen should lead QuickStep for medial reasons (as stated by Shonak)
- Trentin could well do better than Boonen at Roubaix, who is over his limit sadly. I did not say that he is better than Boonen as well, if you read properly I said that Trentin had the better season (on cobbles) so far.
- I appreciate your respect for Trentin
- saying that Boonen should be the favourite in your eyes is okay and somewhat reasonable, saying that everybody thinking elsewhat is wrong in your manner is disrespectful
Riis123 wrote: Let me make it clear again to guys like Croatia who apparently still doesn't get it: Roubaix is a totally different beast than the flemish races. There is a reason why the 2nd best rider of this cobbled campaign doesn't even ride Roubaix. Its so different.
Sadly disrespectful again. Where do you want to go with this? You're not the only one around here that does know about the special dynamics of this race. Please come back with posts like this when you talk about the special dynamics of GP Izola, Les Tour des Fillipinas, Tour du Rio, Les Challenges in Morocco, Vuelta a Guatemala, Tour of Estonia or the Tropicale Amissa Bongo (to talk about some races that also have interesting special side effects - less common than Paris - Roubaix though) and then talk again about people not aware of the difference between Flemish Classics and Paris - Roubaix.
Its not just somewhat reasonable, its more than reasonable. I have followed cycling more closely than ever this year and Tommeke in his last season. He is in very good shape - Im sad he didn't get to showcase it to you more during Flanders (which obviously is a race much less suited to him at this point)
What isn't reasonable is to call me a fanboy because I rate Tom Boonen this highly ahead of Roubaix. I think that makes you worse. Its just too easy to call me a fanboy and dismiss sound arguments:
Its the collective wisdom, baby. Every god damn bookmaker has him as the favourite or the 2nd most favoured rider. Dismiss that all you want, I don't care, but thats the closest we are becoming to objectively assess who the favourite is.
To your second post: The only reason why I did that was because you referred to Trentin having a better classics campaign than Boonen. Which obviously is true but of little relevance in exactly this race - hence the big focus on these races not being comparable
I do not call you an overrating fan because of overhyping Boonens last race, but instead because of the combination of your statements on sevveral riders in the past in cycling threads (talking for example about Valverde's chances winning the Tour or Gaviria being the best sprinter) - sorry for not searching back for quotations though.
Sad enough that for you general sport bookmakers are the measurement point, but I'll leave it here. Have a good night, and may Boonen better win Roubaix now
useless debate.
Boonen is in great shape..(like also a year ago). Roubaix is he's race after he lost sprinter mojo. I believe 98% of people would like to see he's last roubaix win.
Gilbert would have been at top group.
Race will show us anyway..punctures..crashes..bad luck..hell of north.
That will be all fun. Let's enjoy season best classic
Croatia14 wrote:
I do not call you an overrating fan because of overhyping Boonens last race, but instead because of the combination of your statements on sevveral riders in the past in cycling threads (talking for example about Valverde's chances winning the Tour or Gaviria being the best sprinter) - sorry for not searching back for quotations though.
Sad enough that for you general sport bookmakers are the measurement point, but I'll leave it here. Have a good night, and may Boonen better win Roubaix now
I do think that Gaviria is the 2nd fastest sprinter in the world, yes. That I actually don't really have any doubt about. However, I hope you have realised me and Shonak has something going about hyping Gaviria. Much of it is fun and games as well.
I cant remember me saying he was the fastest/best at no point tho.
Yes, I can dig some of those arguments up for why Valverde potentially (very small chance) could find himself in a position in which Froome was crashed out, Quintana tired from the Giro and so on. I think I made it clear I didn't think Valverde was able to win the Tour mano-a-mano. Didn't I?
You failed to mention Gilbert. I hyped Gilbert to the point where many got annoyed and again started calling me a fanboy, ranking him along with GVA and Sagan. I said he was back, possibly as good as in 2011 with a better motor, less explosiveness. It was obvious in the classics leading up to and De Panne. He went on to a 55 km solo victory in one of the most legendary Flanders in modern time.
Bookmakers are the most objective measuring stick, yes. Surely a lot more objective than me, you and your ordinary Daily member. Wouldn't you agree? Crosscheck 5 bookmakers and you will find the general consensus of the cycling world of who is the favourite, the 2nd favourite etc. If you think bookmakers are uninformed, which I think you are implying, then go ahead; make your money. They are stupid anyways.
And I think you have misunderstood the whole point: My argument doesn't rest on Boonen winning. He doesn't have to win or do exceptionally well or else I was wrong. No, there are too many uncertainties, especially in Roubaix - all I am saying is Boonen is and will be the protagonist in this bike race. And a favoured one at that.
And goodnight to you as well. I hope I shred a little light on why I say what I say. I don't say anything to troll anybody, I say what I say because I deep down believe it to be the truth. And sometimes you have to go up against conventional wisdom and take a lot of crap for it.
Shonak wrote: I'd also prefer a muddy edition for once, it's been too long. It's a completely different race then and I don't think it's too much to ask for after 15 years..
Long live Museeuw!
Welcome to climate change
That has nothing to do with climate change.
Clearly the UCI''s fault.
No, it's Obama's fault and climate change is a Chinese hoax.
I thought the Jews are the one to blame...
At least we now have Trump to fix it all for us, I'm sure if we asked he would give us a muddy Roubaix
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It's not a weak startlist but just a changing of the guard of riders who can compete in this race. Plenty of talent in this years edition.
Hells 500 Crew and 6 x Everester
Don Rd Launching Place
Melbourne Hill Rd Warrandyte
Colby Drive Belgrave South
William Rd The Patch
David Hill Rd Monbulk
Lakeside Drive Emerald https://www.everesting.cc/hall-of-fame/
I shall elaborate my previous post as it seems like you did not understand as I had intended.
Sure, you can compare startlists all you want, and compared to maybe 3 OR 4 years back you can say something about sttength. My point was that die the rise and decline of riders the top will change very quickly. Can you for example comaper Naesen with Cancellara? No. Cancellara would've​ declined further, and therefore no comparison van be made.
You can only say something about depth of startlists, how many favourites are there? Comparing riders with historical riders is practically useless.
Now as for you as a person, Riis, I have very little respect for you and the way you respond on people. You should work on that. Just because I don't like you does not mean I treat you differently than any other person.
Manager of Team Popo4Ever p/b Morshynska in the PCM.Daily Man-Game
rooting for Stybs I guess, but I fear that QuickStep will ride for Boonen, who won't stand a chance against the best though - still Tommeke deserves to get this chance one last time!
I have followed cycling more closely than ever this year and Tommeke in his last season. He is in very good shape - Im sad he didn't get to showcase it to you more during Flanders (which obviously is a race much less suited to him at this point)
