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PCM.daily Projects WT Stat Discussion
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| Ton1Mart1n |
Posted on 21-03-2017 20:39
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Domestique
Posts: 400
Joined: 14-06-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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matt17br wrote:
Average doesn't mean much, it's a really really badly made formula on Cyanide's part that doesn't reflect how good they are in game at all. Nibali used to have the highest AVG among climbers just last year due to his rec.
Also, in game it won't give the rider any advantage, the only difference you'll see is higher wages.
So why is it there if it hasn't any effect? What is the calculation behind the average? Still it must define something and normally if the avr is high the rider Wins a lot
“When it’s hurting you, that’s when you can make a difference”
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| Croatia14 |
Posted on 21-03-2017 20:46
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 9099
Joined: 13-03-2013
PCM$: 2100.00
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Ton1Mart1n wrote:
matt17br wrote:
Average doesn't mean much, it's a really really badly made formula on Cyanide's part that doesn't reflect how good they are in game at all. Nibali used to have the highest AVG among climbers just last year due to his rec.
Also, in game it won't give the rider any advantage, the only difference you'll see is higher wages.
So why is it there if it hasn't any effect? What is the calculation behind the average? Still it most define something and normally if the avr is high the rider Wins a lot
But they win a lot not due to their AVG but due to their stats...
of course the AVG gives you a shot on how good a rider might be, but it is not like the must successful rider has the highest AVG
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| matt17br |
Posted on 21-03-2017 21:21
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 10525
Joined: 28-09-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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Ton1Mart1n wrote:
matt17br wrote:
Average doesn't mean much, it's a really really badly made formula on Cyanide's part that doesn't reflect how good they are in game at all. Nibali used to have the highest AVG among climbers just last year due to his rec.
Also, in game it won't give the rider any advantage, the only difference you'll see is higher wages.
So why is it there if it hasn't any effect? What is the calculation behind the average? Still it must define something and normally if the avr is high the rider Wins a lot
As said, the average does have an effect, just not where you think it happens  It does affect how much a rider asks for his wage, and of course it is an useful indication of how good a rider is.
The formula behind the average is partly unknown, since it changed from PCM 12 on and became hardcoded into the game, but taking a look at sta_type_rider will give you an overview on what stats make up what rider type.
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 21-03-2017 21:56
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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I really don't see why a number of members seem against giving Quintana 83 mtn the same as Froome. For one it doesn't make them equal, because apart from the rec stat Froome is dominant in other stats and hell If there is a long TT before say the mountain stages in a Tour de France Froome could well have the race wrapped up before we even get any mountain stages!
By having Quintana at 83 (apart from being a great climber) makes him the most likely of the other GT riders to challenge Froome. To do that he is going to have to be on form and riding well and if controlled by the game AI or human, he needs to take risks and take any advantage from any slip up by Froome which will be hard but possible. On form Quintana is an easy 83 mtn stat rider.
@JR
The reason why for example De La Cruz only has 69 STA is because he has no real history in very long races but you raised a good point about his res and have raised that.
The first three riders in that list De la Cruz, Latour and Geniez are all developing riders and will continue to get better stats, I wouldn't put Navarro in the list though, he's an old timer and more likely to get reductions.
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| Arberg27 |
Posted on 22-03-2017 08:12
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1070
Joined: 21-10-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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Kalach wrote:
Naxela wrote:
Arberg27 wrote:
- Contador is not super good more, Contadope was much better...
- Porte was second strongest in Tour last year after Froome.
- Quintana is super good, but Froome smash him always in first 1-2 weeks, last year all 3 weeks. He liver more on REC.
Froome: 83
Quintana: 82
Porte: 82
Nibali: 81
Contador: 81
Chaves: 81
Aru: 80
Bardet: 80
Valverde: 80
Perfect stats. And yes Contador is not the same but he should have pretty good secondary stats opposed to Porte and even Quintana imo (besides REC). But maybe a little unsure about Chaves, he is a type of rider similar to Valverde, he can win too much time on the hilly stages but i don't disagree with his mountain stats but hope they test his stats carefully not to make him OP. What would you have him on Hill? 80?
When we are talking only about MO stats Quintana is slightly better climber than Froome. I think Quintana should have 83 and Froome 82. Or they should be at least equal in MO imho.
Contador -1 to Quintana in MO. What you base it on? Have you seen Tour De France in recent years? Nobody can keep up with Froome the first 1-2 weeks, not even Quintana...
Contador is very very far from them. |
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| Arberg27 |
Posted on 22-03-2017 08:54
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1070
Joined: 21-10-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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Tafiolmo wrote:
I really don't see why a number of members seem against giving Quintana 83 mtn the same as Froome.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypA-Z...pA-Z74QBJo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UAFG...UAFGoxKjh8
Last year was both Froome and Porte better than Quintana from start to finish.
Of course must Froome had the highest mountain state alone.
Cannot see why Quintana must have a higher mountain stats than Porte?
REC maybe, difference before last year was that Porte was a domestique and Quintana captain. Last year Porte finally captain, also was he funny enough better than Quintana from start to finish.
Edited by Arberg27 on 22-03-2017 09:05
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 26-11-2024 14:00
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| jeremyrobin |
Posted on 22-03-2017 17:28
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Under 23
Posts: 59
Joined: 29-09-2014
PCM$: 200.00
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Alaphilippe: fall in the mountains (77> 75)
Rolland: decrease in physical characteristics (74end> 73, 73res> 71)
G. Bennett: rise in resistance and hill (73val <75, 67res <72)
Gasparotto: fall in the mountains (74> 71)
Betancur: general decrease
Poels: drop in recovery (80> 75)
Antunes: rise in mountain, hill and resistance (72mon <73, 72val <74val, 70res <72)
G.Martin: rise in mountain and hill (72mon <74, 71val <73)
Roson: rising in hill and endurance (70val <72, 63end <67)
T.Dupont: rise in sprint and acceleration (74 <76)
Kwiatkowski: fall in the mountains (76 <74)
Rui Costa: fall in the mountains (78 <77)
Roglic: resistance drop (76> 74)
Benoot: fall in the mountains (73> 72)
Hermans: fall in the mountains (76> 74)
For riders of Grand Tour (minimum 78 mountain) do not classical hilly (ardennaises, san sebastian, canadians, lombardia): lower in hill (-2) not to play the victory or top 5/10 if they go there |
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| Ton1Mart1n |
Posted on 22-03-2017 18:35
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Domestique
Posts: 400
Joined: 14-06-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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jeremyrobin wrote:
Alaphilippe: fall in the mountains (77> 75)
Rolland: decrease in physical characteristics (74end> 73, 73res> 71)
G. Bennett: rise in resistance and hill (73val <75, 67res <72)
Gasparotto: fall in the mountains (74> 71)
Betancur: general decrease
Poels: drop in recovery (80> 75)
Antunes: rise in mountain, hill and resistance (72mon <73, 72val <74val, 70res <72)
G.Martin: rise in mountain and hill (72mon <74, 71val <73)
Roson: rising in hill and endurance (70val <72, 63end <67)
T.Dupont: rise in sprint and acceleration (74 <76)
Kwiatkowski: fall in the mountains (76 <74)
Rui Costa: fall in the mountains (78 <77)
Roglic: resistance drop (76> 74)
Benoot: fall in the mountains (73> 72)
Hermans: fall in the mountains (76> 74)
For riders of Grand Tour (minimum 78 mountain) do not classical hilly (ardennaises, san sebastian, canadians, lombardia): lower in hill (-2) not to play the victory or top 5/10 if they go there
What are these changes based on?
“When it’s hurting you, that’s when you can make a difference”
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| matt17br |
Posted on 22-03-2017 19:08
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 10525
Joined: 28-09-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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I agree or at least partly agree with all your points except for:
- Poels, he's a great domestique in the 3rd week actually! He was almost dropping Froome in Tour 2015's third week and is generally very reliable in the 3rd week whilst never contending GTs either because of time losses before the 3rd week or because he's not the leader.
- Rui Costa, he's had a great kick-off to his season, even if we're only in March, some of his performances can't be overlooked.
- Roglic, he needs that 76 to hang on so well in mountain stages whilst not being very active, and to perform at best in TTs. 74 would be very low compared to both similar climbers and TTists.
- Benoot, I'm not totally sure about this one, but I'd keep him on 73 because of some of his more surprising performances in both 2015 and 2016.
- Hermans, why would you lower him so much, in the last couple of years he's improved in general and in especially up longer climbs. Proof is his GC win in Spain.
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| LuckyLukas |
Posted on 22-03-2017 19:39
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Under 23
Posts: 62
Joined: 29-06-2016
PCM$: 200.00
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Alaphilippe: fall in the mountains (77> 75)
Rolland: decrease in physical characteristics (74end> 73, 73res> 71)
G. Bennett: rise in resistance and hill (73val <75, 67res <72)
Gasparotto: fall in the mountains (74> 71)
Betancur: general decrease
Poels: drop in recovery (80> 75)
Antunes: rise in mountain, hill and resistance (72mon <73, 72val <74val, 70res <72)
G.Martin: rise in mountain and hill (72mon <74, 71val <73)
Roson: rising in hill and endurance (70val <72, 63end <67)
T.Dupont: rise in sprint and acceleration (74 <76)
Kwiatkowski: fall in the mountains (76 <74)
Rui Costa: fall in the mountains (78 <77)
Roglic: resistance drop (76> 74)
Benoot: fall in the mountains (73> 72)
Hermans: fall in the mountains (76> 74)
I also agree. Particularly with lowering the Mo stats of the hill specialists. On the one hand guys like Alaphilippe, Hermans and Costa already showed this season that they can climb very well but on the other hand they are only able to perform well on stages that are flat or a bit hilly with one final climb. On stages with multiple long climbs or a 20 k final climb we won't see them in the first positions. Their current Mo stats in combination with their excellent hill stats make them perform a bit to good in those mountain stages.
Edited by LuckyLukas on 22-03-2017 19:57
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| matt17br |
Posted on 22-03-2017 19:56
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Directeur Sportif
Posts: 10525
Joined: 28-09-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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I also agree. Particularly with lowering the Mo stats of the hill specialists
I'm pretty sure it's the other way around he's talking about. He wants to lower the HI stat of GT specialists.
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| LuckyLukas |
Posted on 22-03-2017 20:00
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Under 23
Posts: 62
Joined: 29-06-2016
PCM$: 200.00
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And he wants to lower the mountain stats of Kwiat, Gasparotto, Alaphilippe, Costa, Hermanns. |
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| Ton1Mart1n |
Posted on 22-03-2017 21:36
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Domestique
Posts: 400
Joined: 14-06-2011
PCM$: 200.00
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Just gotta say well done lads! I'm now using these stats and the game is so much better, realistic and funnier to play. Thank you stat experts 
“When it’s hurting you, that’s when you can make a difference”
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| jeremyrobin |
Posted on 22-03-2017 22:04
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Under 23
Posts: 59
Joined: 29-09-2014
PCM$: 200.00
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Yes matt17br for hiil stat of gt specialists.
I don't want hill specialists finish between 10 and 20 in grand tour (Except as Dan Martin, Valverde for example), this is why I ask for a decrease in the note in the mountains |
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| Tafiolmo |
Posted on 22-03-2017 22:42
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Sprinter
Posts: 1962
Joined: 10-04-2013
PCM$: 200.00
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jeremyrobin wrote:
Yes matt17br for hiil stat of gt specialists.
I don't want hill specialists finish between 10 and 20 in grand tour (Except as Dan Martin, Valverde for example), this is why I ask for a decrease in the note in the mountains
We've actually put in some of your recs to riders like Alaphilippe and Kwiat as we recognize that they have the Valverde syndrome, making them better than their mtn stats suggest.
Others though we don't agree with like with Poels, Costa, Roglic and Hermans etc
but keep the suggestions coming
@Ton1Martin
It's a pleasure and enjoy
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| Kalach |
Posted on 23-03-2017 07:52
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Breakaway Specialist
Posts: 880
Joined: 04-08-2012
PCM$: 300.00
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Arberg27 wrote:
Kalach wrote:
Naxela wrote:
Arberg27 wrote:
- Contador is not super good more, Contadope was much better...
- Porte was second strongest in Tour last year after Froome.
- Quintana is super good, but Froome smash him always in first 1-2 weeks, last year all 3 weeks. He liver more on REC.
Froome: 83
Quintana: 82
Porte: 82
Nibali: 81
Contador: 81
Chaves: 81
Aru: 80
Bardet: 80
Valverde: 80
Perfect stats. And yes Contador is not the same but he should have pretty good secondary stats opposed to Porte and even Quintana imo (besides REC). But maybe a little unsure about Chaves, he is a type of rider similar to Valverde, he can win too much time on the hilly stages but i don't disagree with his mountain stats but hope they test his stats carefully not to make him OP. What would you have him on Hill? 80?
When we are talking only about MO stats Quintana is slightly better climber than Froome. I think Quintana should have 83 and Froome 82. Or they should be at least equal in MO imho.
Contador -1 to Quintana in MO. What you base it on? Have you seen Tour De France in recent years? Nobody can keep up with Froome the first 1-2 weeks, not even Quintana...
Contador is very very far from them.
yeah I have seen Tour de France. I think nobody can keep with Froome is not the right expression. In the last Tou for instance Porte definetely could. Regarding of Quintana it was not possible since he had some problems ( as was reported). Well, maybe excuse but then if you saw la Vuelta you could see that Froome was not able to drop him. So assuming that everything is fine with both of them (top shape) Quintana can certainly keep up with Froome (speaking about climbing).
Well Contador. Lets see. But still the best stage racer of this generation. And Contador could also dropp Froome however it is unknown if it will be still possible for him. Contador is 34 Froome will be 32. Its not such a big difference (2 years and a half). |
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| Arberg27 |
Posted on 23-03-2017 17:45
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Protected Rider
Posts: 1070
Joined: 21-10-2007
PCM$: 200.00
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Kalach wrote:
Arberg27 wrote:
Kalach wrote:
Naxela wrote:
Arberg27 wrote:
- Contador is not super good more, Contadope was much better...
- Porte was second strongest in Tour last year after Froome.
- Quintana is super good, but Froome smash him always in first 1-2 weeks, last year all 3 weeks. He liver more on REC.
Froome: 83
Quintana: 82
Porte: 82
Nibali: 81
Contador: 81
Chaves: 81
Aru: 80
Bardet: 80
Valverde: 80
Perfect stats. And yes Contador is not the same but he should have pretty good secondary stats opposed to Porte and even Quintana imo (besides REC). But maybe a little unsure about Chaves, he is a type of rider similar to Valverde, he can win too much time on the hilly stages but i don't disagree with his mountain stats but hope they test his stats carefully not to make him OP. What would you have him on Hill? 80?
When we are talking only about MO stats Quintana is slightly better climber than Froome. I think Quintana should have 83 and Froome 82. Or they should be at least equal in MO imho.
Contador -1 to Quintana in MO. What you base it on? Have you seen Tour De France in recent years? Nobody can keep up with Froome the first 1-2 weeks, not even Quintana...
Contador is very very far from them.
yeah I have seen Tour de France. I think nobody can keep with Froome is not the right expression. In the last Tou for instance Porte definetely could. Regarding of Quintana it was not possible since he had some problems ( as was reported). Well, maybe excuse but then if you saw la Vuelta you could see that Froome was not able to drop him. So assuming that everything is fine with both of them (top shape) Quintana can certainly keep up with Froome (speaking about climbing).
Well Contador. Lets see. But still the best stage racer of this generation. And Contador could also dropp Froome however it is unknown if it will be still possible for him. Contador is 34 Froome will be 32. Its not such a big difference (2 years and a half).
Froome is never in top shape in Vuelta and certainly not after had won Dauphiné, won Tour and won Olympic bronze...
Yes Quintana has always problems in tour, problem is that Froome is much better...
Contador? He was good in Tour this time where Froome was not with and he was also doped...
Porte could not keep up with Froome last year: https://youtu.be/0WEvW_n6gGs?t=8m00s
Yes when he was +3 minutes behind in the standings, he could well be allowed, because he was not dangerous anymore.
Edited by Arberg27 on 23-03-2017 18:09
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| Selwink |
Posted on 24-03-2017 16:55
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Grand Tour Champion
Posts: 8856
Joined: 17-05-2012
PCM$: 200.00
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I couldn't help but notice Amund Jansen's way too low stats at the moment. He was a major reason of the success of Halvorsen last year in the sprint stages. Furthermore, he won the Tour de Gironde and the ZLM Roompot Tour himself, though the latter admittedly most on the base of the TTT. This year he already came 13th in the Johan Museeuw Classic and the Ronde van Drenthe. My suggestion is a substantial boost in FL, COB, SPR and ACC, all in the range of 68-70 and an overall boost in other stats.
Also, you might want to change his name into Amund Grøndahl Jansen, with Jansen as his last name. It's the same case as with Edvald Boasson Hagen.
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| catenaccio81 |
Posted on 24-03-2017 20:10
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Under 23
Posts: 50
Joined: 05-06-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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Great performance of David Gaudu and specially Marc Soler on Volta Catalunya. The young spanish has been one of the strongest man on the race even there are big names in this race. |
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| catenaccio81 |
Posted on 24-03-2017 20:23
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Under 23
Posts: 50
Joined: 05-06-2010
PCM$: 200.00
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Arberg27 wrote:
Kalach wrote:
Arberg27 wrote:
Kalach wrote:
Naxela wrote:
Arberg27 wrote:
- Contador is not super good more, Contadope was much better...
- Porte was second strongest in Tour last year after Froome.
- Quintana is super good, but Froome smash him always in first 1-2 weeks, last year all 3 weeks. He liver more on REC.
Froome: 83
Quintana: 82
Porte: 82
Nibali: 81
Contador: 81
Chaves: 81
Aru: 80
Bardet: 80
Valverde: 80
Perfect stats. And yes Contador is not the same but he should have pretty good secondary stats opposed to Porte and even Quintana imo (besides REC). But maybe a little unsure about Chaves, he is a type of rider similar to Valverde, he can win too much time on the hilly stages but i don't disagree with his mountain stats but hope they test his stats carefully not to make him OP. What would you have him on Hill? 80?
When we are talking only about MO stats Quintana is slightly better climber than Froome. I think Quintana should have 83 and Froome 82. Or they should be at least equal in MO imho.
Contador -1 to Quintana in MO. What you base it on? Have you seen Tour De France in recent years? Nobody can keep up with Froome the first 1-2 weeks, not even Quintana...
Contador is very very far from them.
yeah I have seen Tour de France. I think nobody can keep with Froome is not the right expression. In the last Tou for instance Porte definetely could. Regarding of Quintana it was not possible since he had some problems ( as was reported). Well, maybe excuse but then if you saw la Vuelta you could see that Froome was not able to drop him. So assuming that everything is fine with both of them (top shape) Quintana can certainly keep up with Froome (speaking about climbing).
Well Contador. Lets see. But still the best stage racer of this generation. And Contador could also dropp Froome however it is unknown if it will be still possible for him. Contador is 34 Froome will be 32. Its not such a big difference (2 years and a half).
Froome is never in top shape in Vuelta and certainly not after had won Dauphiné, won Tour and won Olympic bronze...
Yes Quintana has always problems in tour, problem is that Froome is much better...
Contador? He was good in Tour this time where Froome was not with and he was also doped...
Porte could not keep up with Froome last year: https://youtu.be/0WEvW_n6gGs?t=8m00s
Yes when he was +3 minutes behind in the standings, he could well be allowed, because he was not dangerous anymore.
Quintana has already shown on the Tour (2015) that he can be better climber than Froome. For me they have a similar climbing skills and the differences comes from the shape.
After them, Porte and Contador have similar climbing level.
And on the third step there are lot of cyclist on the same level. Sometimes some of them are better and sometimes others. I would add on that list at least Krwuiswijk, Zakarin, Pinot. Yates brothers near too.
We will see Dumoulin climbing better, because he has change his training to improve it. Last year was focused on the TT as he said, but this year looks for improving on GC. |
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