TheManxMissile wrote:
Probably because Trump is a xenophobic racist, and Obama isn't. Actions will be responded to differently based upon their reasoning and cause. Trumps base reasoning is highly questionable, hence the reaction is so strong and outspoken. It's not helped by his administrations reactions to the reactions, which is somewhere between laughable and downright socipathic.
Agreed.
Although if the whole of America reacts to everything Trump does like they have done up until now it's going to be a very long 4/5 years. At some point they just need to calm down and stop protesting every single policy.
Why should they stop? The more protests, the more pressure. Even if there's the slightest chance it'll make Trump's policies slightly less outrageous, I'd say it's worth it. That said, I get your point it may be tiring, but still, I think the benefits are higher.
Also worth remembering is that Trump does not represent a majority of the people. Without going over all the flaws in the American election system again, I think it's safe to say the protests are legit.
TheManxMissile wrote:
Probably because Trump is a xenophobic racist, and Obama isn't. Actions will be responded to differently based upon their reasoning and cause. Trumps base reasoning is highly questionable, hence the reaction is so strong and outspoken. It's not helped by his administrations reactions to the reactions, which is somewhere between laughable and downright socipathic.
Agreed.
Although if the whole of America reacts to everything Trump does like they have done up until now it's going to be a very long 4/5 years. At some point they just need to calm down and stop protesting every single policy.
So what should they do? Stand aside while their country is being destroyed?
TheManxMissile wrote:
Probably because Trump is a xenophobic racist, and Obama isn't. Actions will be responded to differently based upon their reasoning and cause. Trumps base reasoning is highly questionable, hence the reaction is so strong and outspoken. It's not helped by his administrations reactions to the reactions, which is somewhere between laughable and downright socipathic.
Agreed.
Although if the whole of America reacts to everything Trump does like they have done up until now it's going to be a very long 4/5 years. At some point they just need to calm down and stop protesting every single policy.
So what should they do? Stand aside while their country is being destroyed?
No, but there is a balance. Constantly protesting every decision will be just as destructive as not protesting at all.
At the end of the day there was a democratic election and, electoral system flaws aside, one side won and one side lost. You can't have a democratic system in place and then riot whenever you lose a vote. There comes a time when you have to accept the result and move on.
"Ringo is exactly right", Shonak - 8 September 2016
TheManxMissile wrote:
Probably because Trump is a xenophobic racist, and Obama isn't. Actions will be responded to differently based upon their reasoning and cause. Trumps base reasoning is highly questionable, hence the reaction is so strong and outspoken. It's not helped by his administrations reactions to the reactions, which is somewhere between laughable and downright socipathic.
Agreed.
Although if the whole of America reacts to everything Trump does like they have done up until now it's going to be a very long 4/5 years. At some point they just need to calm down and stop protesting every single policy.
So what should they do? Stand aside while their country is being destroyed?
No, but there is a balance. Constantly protesting every decision will be just as destructive as not protesting at all.
At the end of the day there was a democratic election and, electoral system flaws aside, one side won and one side lost. You can't have a democratic system in place and then riot whenever you lose a vote. There comes a time when you have to accept the result and move on.
How long does that hold? Let's say Trump shoots someone tomorrow, should people still just accept it and move on? We're already at the point where human rights are being violated, murder is just a small step up.
Which human rights close to being murdered are actually being violated? Right to enter the soil of a sovergein state as you please? I dont know about any right like that, so even as the no Trump supporter, i dont see any problem with tries to push your program via democratic means. I am no expert on american constitution, i will leave that to the federal courts, but probably different judges have different opinions on that?
Which human rights close to being murdered are actually being violated? Right to enter the soil of a sovergein state as you please? I dont know about any right like that, so even as the no Trump supporter, i dont see any problem with tries to push your program via democratic means. I am no expert on american constitution, i will leave that to the federal courts, but probably different judges have different opinions on that?
Not exactly is it though? The ban was on visa holders who already undergo extreme vetting and checks.
Similarly any refugees: https://www.nytim...ocess.html
( but I'm sure Trump is gonna improve this process with his magic)
Ollfardh was dramatic I concur, but this discriminatory law definitely justifies all kinds of protesting. Ringo would make an ideal fascist regime citizen
P.S. May I add Rick Perry is gonna have his senate confirmation as Secretary of Eenrgy. The department he is going to lead?
I just think that these American protests lack any kind of leadership or direction. To me it just looks like random groups protesting every little thing that happens. It's like the travel restriction thing. "I know, lets protest the governments travel restrictions on certain people entering the country by protesting in the arrivals lounge at the airport and making it impossible for anyone to enter the country".
They need to pick their battles. By protesting everything that happens it looses it's impact and people just get fed up and stop paying attention.
Look at Romania. Get everyone organised and protesting the same thing and you can make a difference. If you just run around protesting for the sake of it, which is what is currently happening in America, you just get a mess.
"Ringo is exactly right", Shonak - 8 September 2016
Which human rights close to being murdered are actually being violated? Right to enter the soil of a sovergein state as you please? I dont know about any right like that, so even as the no Trump supporter, i dont see any problem with tries to push your program via democratic means. I am no expert on american constitution, i will leave that to the federal courts, but probably different judges have different opinions on that?
Not exactly is it though? The ban was on visa holders who already undergo extreme vetting and checks.
Similarly any refugees: https://www.nytim...ocess.html
( but I'm sure Trump is gonna improve this process with his magic)
Ollfardh was dramatic I concur, but this discriminatory law definitely justifies all kinds of protesting. Ringo would make an ideal fascist regime citizen
I just think if your going to protest, do it properly. Nothing will be achieved by everyone protesting in different directions as is currently happening.
"Ringo is exactly right", Shonak - 8 September 2016
I just think that these American protests lack any kind of leadership or direction. To me it just looks like random groups protesting every little thing that happens. It's like the travel restriction thing. "I know, lets protest the governments travel restrictions on certain people entering the country by protesting in the arrivals lounge at the airport and making it impossible for anyone to enter the country".
They need to pick their battles. By protesting everything that happens it looses it's impact and people just get fed up and stop paying attention.
Look at Romania. Get everyone organised and protesting the same thing and you can make a difference. If you just run around protesting for the sake of it, which is what is currently happening in America, you just get a mess.
But it's not a mess is it? The court rejected Trump's ban. And he's losing the plot.The protesters must have made some impact then, especially bringing this issue on wider scale.
Edited by Alakagom on 06-02-2017 15:17
I'm sure the Womens March was completly unorganised and wasted. Not like millions of people around the world all did the same thing with the same argument for that one.
I'm sure those thousands of people outside the airports were all protesting for different reasons.
Agree it was a bit of dramatisation. But in the few weeks since he became president he is discriminating refugees, removed government healthcare, took away freedom of speech from certain science institutes, turned the clock back a few decades when it comes to abortion, approved the controversial pipeline plans and his cabinet members are possibly worse.
The point was indeed about the refugees, where his decree goes directly against Article 14 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Granted, other countries have done or tried similar things, but combine that with the attack on woman's rights, the environment, native americans, etc. There's a problem. A problem that should be protested against, Even if he "won a democratic election".
TheManxMissile wrote:
I'm sure the Womens March was completly unorganised and wasted. Not like millions of people around the world all did the same thing with the same argument for that one.
I'm sure those thousands of people outside the airports were all protesting for different reasons.
But that's two different groups protesting two different things. Which is my point.
The groups need to merge and protest together otherwise it's just different groups protesting different things and they all drown each other out.
"Ringo is exactly right", Shonak - 8 September 2016
Which human rights close to being murdered are actually being violated? Right to enter the soil of a sovergein state as you please? I dont know about any right like that, so even as the no Trump supporter, i dont see any problem with tries to push your program via democratic means. I am no expert on american constitution, i will leave that to the federal courts, but probably different judges have different opinions on that?
Not exactly is it though? The ban was on visa holders who already undergo extreme vetting and checks.
Similarly any refugees: https://www.nytim...ocess.html
( but I'm sure Trump is gonna improve this process with his magic)
Ollfardh was dramatic I concur, but this discriminatory law definitely justifies all kinds of protesting. Ringo would make an ideal fascist regime citizen
I just think if your going to protest, do it properly. Nothing will be achieved by everyone protesting in different directions as is currently happening.
I think the main problem is, that violent protests lead to nothing. Look at Romania. Non-violent protests. And they seem to work. But smashing starbucks windows, hitting people with poles and blocking people from getting to work, is not the way to go, I think.
TheManxMissile wrote:
I'm sure the Womens March was completly unorganised and wasted. Not like millions of people around the world all did the same thing with the same argument for that one.
I'm sure those thousands of people outside the airports were all protesting for different reasons.
But that's two different groups protesting two different things. Which is my point.
The groups need to merge and protest together otherwise it's just different groups protesting different things and they all drown each other out.
You're right, it is toally confusing and drowning. One group is protesting against Trump and his actions, and another group is protesting against Trump and his actions. No-one else protest against Trump and his actions, if there are three protests on this same point involving millions of people how will we know what thse people want.
I guess everyone must love Trump and support him, because they are protesting so confusingly this is the message i must take from it.
Which human rights close to being murdered are actually being violated? Right to enter the soil of a sovergein state as you please? I dont know about any right like that, so even as the no Trump supporter, i dont see any problem with tries to push your program via democratic means. I am no expert on american constitution, i will leave that to the federal courts, but probably different judges have different opinions on that?
Not exactly is it though? The ban was on visa holders who already undergo extreme vetting and checks.
Similarly any refugees: https://www.nytim...ocess.html
( but I'm sure Trump is gonna improve this process with his magic)
Ollfardh was dramatic I concur, but this discriminatory law definitely justifies all kinds of protesting. Ringo would make an ideal fascist regime citizen
I just think if your going to protest, do it properly. Nothing will be achieved by everyone protesting in different directions as is currently happening.
I think the main problem is, that violent protests lead to nothing. Look at Romania. Non-violent protests. And they seem to work. But smashing starbucks windows, hitting people with poles and blocking people from getting to work, is not the way to go, I think.
There were sporadic violent clashes between police and people protesting at times in Romania. Same way there were few violent clashes in USA, that doesn't invalidate all the protest now does it?
Right wing media seems to obsess over few violent clashes that made up 0.001% of the protests. But what would Fox be without cherrypicking.
As far as I know Women's March and airport protests have been almost entirely peaceful as well. The Milo thing is a whole separate issue.
TheManxMissile wrote:
I'm sure the Womens March was completly unorganised and wasted. Not like millions of people around the world all did the same thing with the same argument for that one.
I'm sure those thousands of people outside the airports were all protesting for different reasons.
But that's two different groups protesting two different things. Which is my point.
The groups need to merge and protest together otherwise it's just different groups protesting different things and they all drown each other out.
You're right, it is toally confusing and drowning. One group is protesting against Trump and his actions, and another group is protesting against Trump and his actions. No-one else protest against Trump and his actions, if there are three protests on this same point involving millions of people how will we know what thse people want.
I guess everyone must love Trump and support him, because they are protesting so confusingly this is the message i must take from it.
Well it is confusing. Some are protesting womens rights, some the wall, some the travel restrictions, some the removal of health benefits etc. If the protestors are all protesting different things then they aren't as strong as they can be.
Lots of people dislike their government. But if there isn't an organised movement they will get nowhere.
Yes there are people protesting. But there are many millions more who aren't. The protesters are the minority and in order to make a difference they need to be organised.
"Ringo is exactly right", Shonak - 8 September 2016
Alakagom wrote:
There were sporadic violent clashes between police and people protesting at times in Romania. Same way there were few violent clashes in USA, that doesn't invalidate all the protest now does it?
Right wing media seems to obsess over few violent clashes that made up 0.001% of the protests. But what would Fox be without cherrypicking.
As far as I know Women's March and airport protests have been almost entirely peaceful as well. The Milo thing is a whole separate issue.
Alakagom wrote:
There were sporadic violent clashes between police and people protesting at times in Romania. Same way there were few violent clashes in USA, that doesn't invalidate all the protest now does it?
In only happened one day. And a small group of people were doing it (~100 from a crowd of 150k). Those that started the violence had nothing to do with the protests. Were there either for the thrill or, most likely, payed by the party that the protests are against.
![imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg](https://imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg)
