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The Politics Thread
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| TheManxMissile |
Posted on 06-12-2016 19:54
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ringo182 wrote:
I don't really want to get involved in this as one of my new years resolutions is to be less argumentative on this site, however if you consider that "American Americans" probably make up 99% of the population and refugees 1% (only example figures) you figure of 73 American and 11 refugee shootings actually shows an enormous leaning towards refugees if you use shootings per person rather than the actual number of shootings.
Immigrants, not Refugees. I think it broke down as something like: 2 Russians, 1 Korean, 1 Indian, 1 Pakistani, 1 Lebanese and various Hispanics/Latinos (although can't remember exactly). Of those, none came as Refugees, but rather immigrants coming for work or education.
And in 2014 (best data i could find at a quick glance) the Immigrant Population stood at 13.3% (about 42.4million).
And that 11 out of 127 would be 8.7%.
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| wackojackohighcliffe |
Posted on 06-12-2016 19:56
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ringo182 wrote:
TheManxMissile wrote:
jseadog1 wrote:
So start listing ones that have been from Un-American people. You would probably have just as long of a list if not at least more casualties.. The Florida Gay Night Club... This Ohio State one, multiple ones in movie theaters.
So from a list of 127 Shootings from 2010 to now the results are:
American 73
Immigrant 11
Unkown 43
Non-Muslim 78
Muslim 2
Unknown 47
Now i'll admit, this is only 127 shootings and is way short of the total number commited in the USA since 2010. And as you can see there are a number of occasions of "Unknown", this being where either no-one was caught or i couldn't find the information (i'm not going to spend hours trawling google to find every detail on every shooting).
But it's a good sample size either way, and certainly enough to support my argument that Americans are at the least as dangerous to themselves are Immigrant's or Muslims or Immigrant Muslims are.
I don't really want to get involved in this as one of my new years resolutions is to be less argumentative on this site, however if you consider that "American Americans" probably make up 99% of the population and refugees 1% (only example figures) you figure of 73 American and 11 refugee shootings actually shows an enormous leaning towards refugees if you use shootings per person rather than the actual number of shootings.
For someone who talked about immigrants and refugees getting confused, you jumped straight from immigrants to refugees there.
Also, "American Americans" might need to be fleshed out a bit more as a phrase.
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 06-12-2016 20:04
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wackojackohighcliffe wrote:
ringo182 wrote:
TheManxMissile wrote:
jseadog1 wrote:
So start listing ones that have been from Un-American people. You would probably have just as long of a list if not at least more casualties.. The Florida Gay Night Club... This Ohio State one, multiple ones in movie theaters.
So from a list of 127 Shootings from 2010 to now the results are:
American 73
Immigrant 11
Unkown 43
Non-Muslim 78
Muslim 2
Unknown 47
Now i'll admit, this is only 127 shootings and is way short of the total number commited in the USA since 2010. And as you can see there are a number of occasions of "Unknown", this being where either no-one was caught or i couldn't find the information (i'm not going to spend hours trawling google to find every detail on every shooting).
But it's a good sample size either way, and certainly enough to support my argument that Americans are at the least as dangerous to themselves are Immigrant's or Muslims or Immigrant Muslims are.
I don't really want to get involved in this as one of my new years resolutions is to be less argumentative on this site, however if you consider that "American Americans" probably make up 99% of the population and refugees 1% (only example figures) you figure of 73 American and 11 refugee shootings actually shows an enormous leaning towards refugees if you use shootings per person rather than the actual number of shootings.
For someone who talked about immigrants and refugees getting confused, you jumped straight from immigrants to refugees there.
Also, "American Americans" might need to be fleshed out a bit more as a phrase.
I'm quoting refugees as that is what people have been talking about throughout the thread. I misread TMMs post so apologies.
"Ringo is exactly right", Shonak - 8 September 2016
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 06-12-2016 20:32
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Immigration is always going to be a huge issue. This year the brexit vote, Trump a nd the recent Italian referendum have all been won and lost on this issue.
Immigration is a good thing in moderation. However for too long people's concerns have not been listened to which has lead to an increase in right wing politics in many countries.
You can't simply call people racist for having concerns about immigration, particularly in Europe where it is forced upon countries by the EU. Ehile I don't believe the vast majority of immigrants carry any risk of carrying out acts of terrorism, I do believe that many countries have to listen to the concerns of the population or there will be many more Brexits and Trumps over the next few years.
"Ringo is exactly right", Shonak - 8 September 2016
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| Paul23 |
Posted on 06-12-2016 20:34
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I can only speak for Germany, hence here's a map of all documented criminal acts of immigrants in 2016 in Germany and Austria.(and some swiss ones as well)
https://www.googl...92&z=6
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| Alakagom |
Posted on 06-12-2016 20:46
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ringo182 wrote:
Immigration is always going to be a huge issue. This year the brexit vote, Trump a nd the recent Italian referendum have all been won and lost on this issue.
Immigration is a good thing in moderation. However for too long people's concerns have not been listened to which has lead to an increase in right wing politics in many countries.
You can't simply call people racist for having concerns about immigration, particularly in Europe where it is forced upon countries by the EU. Ehile I don't believe the vast majority of immigrants carry any risk of carrying out acts of terrorism, I do believe that many countries have to listen to the concerns of the population or there will be many more Brexits and Trumps over the next few years.
That is way too diplomatic answer from you.
I want old Ringo. Be like Paul. Never give up. Never surrender.
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| matt17br |
Posted on 06-12-2016 20:52
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Trump a nd the recent Italian referendum have all been won and lost on this issue.
What has our referendum got to do with immigration exactly? It's on a completely different topic and not even the populist parties mentioned the issue as an argument to vote against yes - which would have been stupid anyway.
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 06-12-2016 21:05
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matt17br wrote:
Trump a nd the recent Italian referendum have all been won and lost on this issue.
What has our referendum got to do with immigration exactly? It's on a completely different topic and not even the populist parties mentioned the issue as an argument to vote against yes - which would have been stupid anyway.
It's been reported in Britain as a vote of no confidence against your PM, partly because of his failure to handle the immigrant crisis.
You obviously know better being Italian  however that's the version of events I've read.
"Ringo is exactly right", Shonak - 8 September 2016
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| Alakagom |
Posted on 06-12-2016 21:08
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Media is retarded (or smart in order to have most views there's two ways of looking at this). They appeal to the lowest common denominator, every issue can be brought down to geopolitics for them. It's easy to explain that way. These people work as journalists for a good reason as well.
If you want to have good source google translating Italian papers will still give you better info that reading BBC and the likes.
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| Waghlon |
Posted on 06-12-2016 21:11
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Paul23 wrote:
I can only speak for Germany, hence here's a map of all documented criminal acts of immigrants in 2016 in Germany and Austria.(and some swiss ones as well)
https://www.googl...92&z=6
And here's a map of crimes commited by Germans who immigrated to other countries:
https://germanhist...h-edit.jpg
THE THOMAS VOECKLER PROPHET OF PCM DAILY
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 22-11-2024 22:35
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 06-12-2016 21:12
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Alakagom wrote:
Media is retarded (or smart in order to have most views there's two ways of looking at this). They appeal to the lowest common denominator, every issue can be brought down to geopolitics for them. It's easy to explain that way. These people work as journalists for a good reason as well.
If you want to have good source google translating Italian papers will still give you better info that reading BBC and the likes.
Am I the lowest common denominator then?
"Ringo is exactly right", Shonak - 8 September 2016
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| matt17br |
Posted on 06-12-2016 21:13
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ringo182 wrote:
matt17br wrote:
Trump a nd the recent Italian referendum have all been won and lost on this issue.
What has our referendum got to do with immigration exactly? It's on a completely different topic and not even the populist parties mentioned the issue as an argument to vote against yes - which would have been stupid anyway.
It's been reported in Britain as a vote of no confidence against your PM, partly because of his failure to handle the immigrant crisis.
You obviously know better being Italian however that's the version of events I've read.
Typical media then, nothing new.
Renzi has made several mistakes during his mandate as every PM does, but handling immigration is something everyone in Italy knows can't be handled in a correct way, mostly because of how Europe really doesn't lend a hand in any way. A bit like trying to fight mafia
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| Alakagom |
Posted on 06-12-2016 21:13
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ringo182 wrote:
Alakagom wrote:
Media is retarded (or smart in order to have most views there's two ways of looking at this). They appeal to the lowest common denominator, every issue can be brought down to geopolitics for them. It's easy to explain that way. These people work as journalists for a good reason as well.
If you want to have good source google translating Italian papers will still give you better info that reading BBC and the likes.
Am I the lowest common denominator then?
Trying to relate the Italian referendum to Brexit. Saying it was about migrants. Helping the British public relate to the issue. Where this referendum could not be related to any of these issues. It's too complex.
P.S. I read your post wrong. I didn't mean you. Media is to blame for painting the referendum wrongly. I don't blame the public, they don't have time to find this shit out.
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 06-12-2016 21:23
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I've been called worse on this site to be fair
It isn't solely been reported as down to immigration. That's just a one of a number of things. I just picked it out because it's happened recently and we are discussing immigration.
I think it can be compared to Brexit in a way as that was in part a vote of no confidence for David Cameron. Unless the whole vote of no confidence thing is wrong in Italy's case.
"Ringo is exactly right", Shonak - 8 September 2016
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| Alakagom |
Posted on 06-12-2016 21:27
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Reforms were needed, but his reforms were quite obscene. He wanted to change the Senate from being appointed to being elected, something more similar to House of Lords in UK. Now that to an average joe doesn't sound very democractic, (even it's far more complex that just that and kinda-ish made sense).
It's complex issue, but even a quick look at the issue would show he was gonna have hard time passing this.
Basically people in Italy know change is needed in government, but the reforms he proposed were not to liking of most. If he proposed more balanced plan I'm sure he would have won.
He lost not because he was establishment and people wanted him out, he lost because of the reforms he proposed.
But that's not gonna attract as many clicks on news website will it  Basically none of the common news sites or newspapers tried to explain the Italian government system. I saw FT and Economist do it, and then 60 minutes by CBS slightly cover it. Otherwise others just fuck it, ITALYEXITTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT
Edited by Alakagom on 06-12-2016 21:38
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| matt17br |
Posted on 06-12-2016 21:51
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Reforms were needed, but his reforms were quite obscene. He wanted to change the Senate from being appointed to being elected, something more similar to House of Lords in UK.
It's complex issue, but even a quick look would show he was gonna have hard time passing this.
Media might have painted it this way, but the fact the Senate can't be elected is far from being the reason Yes didn't win.
The referendum was needed for laws to be approved in reasonable times. Look up our Parliament's system, where any kind of reform or draft law needs to be approved by the Chamber of Deputies, then by the Senate who if in disagreement with any kind of thing, even wording, has to reject it and get it back to the Deputies who approve their changes and so on.
It's therefore a continuous back and forth that makes it impossible for any kind of substantial changes to be made on a short time notice in not only the Constitution, which anyway Renzi was close to doing. This was the main object of the reform, as well as the suppression of a useless institutions such as the CNEL, where people literally jerk off all the day instead of doing actual stuff. But they're not to blame, you are not forced to do anything more than nothing when you're paid to do something redundant.
You're gonna wonder why the Yes didn't win then. Because Renzi was alone on this. The 5 star movement was against, a party that tries to distance themselves from the definition of a party but in all truth are not better than anyone around. They poll around 30% and normally their voters vote like they're told to. Beppe Grillo literally told them to vote with their gut feeling and not with their head, something that in a normal country wouldn't have been seen as normal.
The Lega Nord, polling around 12%, was against. They're a party that since the '90s wanted seccession for the North of the country, 'nuff said. They're calming the fuck down now though. Berlusconi's party and the rest of the right and far right were against.
And why were they against? To send him home with the excuse of him not being elected by the people when everyone who's literate knows people can't elect the PM but the parliament only. And considering he got a 41% on his own, that's still pretty impressive, even given how his party is not anywhere near polling 41%.
True, the reform of the Parliament could have been made better, but it's gonna take years before a similar chance occurrs to the Italian population because of the mechanisms that are required for something like this referendum to actually be proposed.
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| Paul23 |
Posted on 06-12-2016 21:53
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Funny how that gets upvoted. Shows the intellect of those users.
"Immigrants do shit."
"SHUT UP! HITLER DID SHIT AS WELL!"
-moron logic
This is not about Hitler, this is not about nazis, this is about the current situation. If you honestly complain about Hitler now, you're not better than those morons, who argue for islam, when they say, that christianity did crusades.
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| Alakagom |
Posted on 06-12-2016 21:55
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matt17br wrote:
Reforms were needed, but his reforms were quite obscene. He wanted to change the Senate from being appointed to being elected, something more similar to House of Lords in UK.
It's complex issue, but even a quick look would show he was gonna have hard time passing this.
Media might have painted it this way, but the fact the Senate can't be elected is far from being the reason Yes didn't win.
The referendum was needed for laws to be approved in reasonable times. Look up our Parliament's system, where any kind of reform or draft law needs to be approved by the Chamber of Deputies, then by the Senate who if in disagreement with any kind of thing, even wording, has to reject it and get it back to the Deputies who approve their changes and so on.
It's therefore a continuous back and forth that makes it impossible for any kind of substantial changes to be made on a short time notice in not only the Constitution, which anyway Renzi was close to doing. This was the main object of the reform, as well as the suppression of a useless institutions such as the CNEL, where people literally jerk off all the day instead of doing actual stuff. But they're not to blame, you are not forced to do anything more than nothing when you're paid to do something redundant.
You're gonna wonder why the Yes didn't win then. Because Renzi was alone on this. The 5 star movement was against, a party that tries to distance themselves from the definition of a party but in all truth are not better than anyone around. They poll around 30% and normally their voters vote like they're told to. Beppe Grillo literally told them to vote with their gut feeling and not with their head, something that in a normal country wouldn't have been seen as normal.
The Lega Nord, polling around 12%, was against. They're a party that in the '90s wanted seccession for the North of the country, 'nuff said. Berlusconi's party and the rest of the right and far right were against.
And why were they against? To send him home with the excuse of him not being elected by the people when everyone who's literate knows people can't elect the PM but the parliament only. And considering he got a 41% on his own, that's still pretty impressive, even given how his party is not anywhere near polling 41%.
True, the reform of the Parliament could have been made better, but it's gonna take years before a similar chance occurrs to the Italian population because of the mechanisms that are required for something like this referendum to actually be proposed.
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| wackojackohighcliffe |
Posted on 06-12-2016 23:23
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Paul23 wrote:
Funny how that gets upvoted. Shows the intellect of those users.
"Immigrants do shit."
"SHUT UP! HITLER DID SHIT AS WELL!"
-moron logic
This is not about Hitler, this is not about nazis, this is about the current situation. If you honestly complain about Hitler now, you're not better than those morons, who argue for islam, when they say, that christianity did crusades.
You know what? I think Waghlon might even have been making a joke. Highly out of character in all fairness.
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| Paul23 |
Posted on 07-12-2016 00:57
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wackojackohighcliffe wrote:
Paul23 wrote:
Funny how that gets upvoted. Shows the intellect of those users.
"Immigrants do shit."
"SHUT UP! HITLER DID SHIT AS WELL!"
-moron logic
This is not about Hitler, this is not about nazis, this is about the current situation. If you honestly complain about Hitler now, you're not better than those morons, who argue for islam, when they say, that christianity did crusades.
You know what? I think Waghlon might even have been making a joke. Highly out of character in all fairness.
I know that Waghlon made a Joke....a Joke about a topic, which should be taken seriously. It's pretty Boring now, that every Post "against" me gets upvotes. He could've written: "Paul, you're a cunt." And would've gotten upvotes. Don't get me wrong. I don't care about the upvotes itself, but it just Shows alot about daily, when Posts against me get upvotes, no matter what they are about. It almost seems like people are uniting against Facts. 
"Oh No! He says things I don't want to hear. Lalalalalalalala. I can't hear you. Let's give everyone who makes fun of his Posts or who's against him upvotes, to voice my opinion. I'm so progressive!"
Ringo got everything on Point during his last Posts. Nobody cares about his Posts though, BECAUSE WAGHLON MADE A NAZI JOKE! Why not Name this thread: "The Politics Thread, but only if it's conform with my opinion"...?
We could also create Safe spaces for the offended LGBTQTTIB people, so that they and all their quadrillion genders can live in harmony with the feminists and the radical leftist and refugees, they adore so much.
Honestly, I don't give a fuck about LGBTQTTIB people, about feminazis, about radical of any sort and about refugees that create trouble.
I also think that there are only 3 genders, that 3rd Wave feminism is cancer, that the Islam is a Dangerous ideology and that probably too many refugees don't flee at all. I also think that Hitler wasn't stupid or that he did some good things as well. I also like combustion engines, fast Cars and free speech. I dislike Safe spaces, because I think that they help our society to become retarded. Well, it actually is already. I also think that taxes should be equal and raised/lowered onto 25% for everyone. I also think that equality is important between men and women. I also like to be a Gentleman towards women, but I would probably Hit a woman, if she Hits first, because equality. I like the concept of sovereign states with clear borders. I like the German culture. I think that every country should control their borders, if needed, with weapons after the ultima Ratio. And yes, if that's needed they should also shoot children and women. I think that Trump is better than Hillary and I'm pro-choice. Also I'm for the death penalty. My rant is hereby done.
Tl;Dr: I'm basically Satan for you, I guess. And I couldn't care less at the Moment.
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![imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg](https://imgur.com/KlJUqDx.jpg[/img[img]]https://imgur.com/yUygrQ.jpg)
