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News in November
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| Ad Bot |
Posted on 24-11-2024 23:15
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 04-11-2016 07:29
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World Champion
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Btw. great article on Sagans 2016 and his building of position among the cycling greats.
https://cyclingti...gs-greats/
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| Shonak |
Posted on 04-11-2016 07:30
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15615
Joined: 16-07-2013
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Avin Wargunnson wrote:
Shonak wrote:
Cyclingtips awards of the year. https://cyclingti...st-riders/
Giving ride of the year to Hayman instead of Tommeke is a joke. Basically everything Hayman did was due to Tommeke. Boonen made the race 100km out, his team and he took control of it all, and he was stubbornly active in the finale too, none weaker than Hayman really, who naturally reserved more energy than Tommeke. Hayman got lucky he had Tommeke at his side. Boonen forced his luck. Bullshit award that belittles the legend of Tommeke's PR 2016 ride.
Pff, Hayman is very well deserved winner of that award, it was truly the ride of the year what he did in P-R. Boonen was just lame not to beat him with his experience in that race...
No because Boonen instigated the moves for the entire race, in fact even Hayman's race winning move (when they got away in the last cbs section, was down by Boonen, Hayman just following). If you value only value 200 meters of a 200km+ race, then Hayman is your pick but actually he already got another award with Upset of the year, and the fitting name for the velodrome sprint would be best win of the year then. But for ride of the year we take in everything, thus any other choice has to be Boonen for such an award. Paris Roubaix 2016 is the greatest race I've ever seen because of the coup d'etat he was willing to pull off.
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
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| Avin Wargunnson |
Posted on 04-11-2016 07:32
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World Champion
Posts: 14236
Joined: 20-06-2011
PCM$: 300.00
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We have to agree to disagree, because i cant even think about awarding ride of the year to a rider who lost.
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| trekbmc |
Posted on 04-11-2016 07:52
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Team Leader
Posts: 7366
Joined: 11-07-2014
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Poels most improved rider is definetly disagreeable, while LBL was the achievement of a lifetime, he did just spend the rest of the year pacing for Froome and it's not like he wasn't a class rider beforehand. Perhaps more deserving would be one of the GC contenders who stepped up there gme this year (Yates, Chaves..,), Jungels, Naesen (or another young talent who stepped us this season) or even Sagan for stepping up another level from where he already was, amongst other names (Laporte!  ).
Giving two prizes to Hayman for the same race was weird. Best sprinter Cav just sounds wrong but admittedly I don't know who I'd replace him with and best puncheur Van Avermaet sounds really wrong, because I just can't see him as a punchuer, no matter how good his season is. So I guess I can't really argue with those.
"What done is, is one." - Benji Naesen
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 04-11-2016 08:14
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3472
Joined: 03-01-2008
PCM$: 1348.00
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Shonak wrote:
Avin Wargunnson wrote:
Shonak wrote:
Cyclingtips awards of the year. https://cyclingti...st-riders/
Giving ride of the year to Hayman instead of Tommeke is a joke. Basically everything Hayman did was due to Tommeke. Boonen made the race 100km out, his team and he took control of it all, and he was stubbornly active in the finale too, none weaker than Hayman really, who naturally reserved more energy than Tommeke. Hayman got lucky he had Tommeke at his side. Boonen forced his luck. Bullshit award that belittles the legend of Tommeke's PR 2016 ride.
Pff, Hayman is very well deserved winner of that award, it was truly the ride of the year what he did in P-R. Boonen was just lame not to beat him with his experience in that race...
No because Boonen instigated the moves for the entire race, in fact even Hayman's race winning move (when they got away in the last cbs section, was down by Boonen, Hayman just following). If you value only value 200 meters of a 200km+ race, then Hayman is your pick but actually he already got another award with Upset of the year, and the fitting name for the velodrome sprint would be best win of the year then. But for ride of the year we take in everything, thus any other choice has to be Boonen for such an award. Paris Roubaix 2016 is the greatest race I've ever seen because of the coup d'etat he was willing to pull off.
I must agree with Avin here. You can't award the ride of the year award to someone who lost. Lots of riders ride very good races but lose. As well as Boonen rode, tactically he totally cocked it up. In order for ride of the year you have to ride a erfect race from start to finish. Boonen cocked up the last few K's so it can't be considered ride of the year. Hayman meanwhile rode the perfect race, that suited his attributes, and finished it off with the win. A perfect ride.
It boils down to Boonen got beat in a sprint by Hayman. How can you award that ride of the year?
"Ringo is exactly right", Shonak - 8 September 2016
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 04-11-2016 08:25
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3472
Joined: 03-01-2008
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Avin Wargunnson wrote:
We have to agree to disagree, because i cant even think about awarding ride of the year to a rider who lost.
Agreed. Technically Boonen's ride wasn't even the best of that day so how can it be considered best ride in the whole year?
"Ringo is exactly right", Shonak - 8 September 2016
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 04-11-2016 08:33
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3472
Joined: 03-01-2008
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I would like to dispute that unfair Zabel'ing 
Although thinking about it I Zabel'ed myself a bit
"Ringo is exactly right", Shonak - 8 September 2016
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| trekbmc |
Posted on 04-11-2016 08:35
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Team Leader
Posts: 7366
Joined: 11-07-2014
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I figured you Zabel'd yourself there. I can take it off if you want though.
"What done is, is one." - Benji Naesen
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 04-11-2016 08:37
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3472
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trekbmc wrote:
I figured you Zabel'd yourself there. I can take it off if you want though.
Nah, that's alright. I'll just be on the lookout to Zabel you back at the earliest opportunity
"Ringo is exactly right", Shonak - 8 September 2016
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 04-11-2016 08:41
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World Champion
Posts: 14563
Joined: 08-08-2011
PCM$: 9100.00
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Hayman won the race, but it was Boonen's racing that made the race what it was. True, he made a mistake in the end getting boxed in by riders he should have dropped way before. But we got the best Paris-Roubai in years thanks to Boonen, not thanks to Hayman (who does deserve all credit for winning the race though).
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| Shonak |
Posted on 04-11-2016 08:48
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15615
Joined: 16-07-2013
PCM$: 350.00
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Boonen's ride of Paris-Roubaix is a deed for the ages, winning the race is just semantics. Sometimes a race is bigger than winning.
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 04-11-2016 08:50
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3472
Joined: 03-01-2008
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Surely the real ride of the year was Nibali on stage 19 at the Giro anyway?
"Ringo is exactly right", Shonak - 8 September 2016
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| Riis123 |
Posted on 04-11-2016 10:06
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Grand Tour Specialist
Posts: 5075
Joined: 07-08-2008
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Shonak wrote:
Cyclingtips awards of the year. https://cyclingti...st-riders/
Giving ride of the year to Hayman instead of Tommeke is a joke. Basically everything Hayman did was due to Tommeke. Boonen made the race 100km out, his team and he took control of it all, and he was stubbornly active in the finale too, none weaker than Hayman really, who naturally reserved more energy than Tommeke. Hayman got lucky he had Tommeke at his side. Boonen forced his luck. Bullshit award that belittles the legend of Tommeke's PR 2016 ride.
You are being way too hard here IMO.
Hayman winning a race like P-R like that from the break of the day AFTER being injured and barely racing that much has to be the most impressive. While Boonen was super impressive and most rooted for him to win that sprint like crazy, me included, losing to Hayman while still being one of the best sprinters after a hard race can't net him that award. Hayman winning felt meh to me as well, but he was crazy impressive and strong.
Other notable rides: Wellens in Poland, Nibali on Risoul and maybe Sagan in Flanders. |
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 04-11-2016 10:38
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3472
Joined: 03-01-2008
PCM$: 1348.00
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I think there is some confusion between ride of the year and race of the year.
P-R 2016 was possibly the Race of the year, and Boonen's efforts went a long way to making it the race of the year.
However, ultimately his efforts, no matter how great, were unsuccessful. Therefore he helped to create the race of the year, but it wasn't the ride of the year.
It's like football. How many times does a commentator say "if that had gone in it would have been goal of the season"? But it didn't go in so it is just a good chance that will be forgotten.
If Boonen had won it would have been ride of the year hands down. But he didn't win so it can't be considered ride of the year.
"Ringo is exactly right", Shonak - 8 September 2016
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 04-11-2016 10:57
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World Champion
Posts: 14563
Joined: 08-08-2011
PCM$: 9100.00
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ringo182 wrote:
I think there is some confusion between ride of the year and race of the year.
P-R 2016 was possibly the Race of the year, and Boonen's efforts went a long way to making it the race of the year.
However, ultimately his efforts, no matter how great, were unsuccessful. Therefore he helped to create the race of the year, but it wasn't the ride of the year.
It's like football. How many times does a commentator say "if that had gone in it would have been goal of the season"? But it didn't go in so it is just a good chance that will be forgotten.
If Boonen had won it would have been ride of the year hands down. But he didn't win so it can't be considered ride of the year.
A goal is only a goal if it's a goal, there is no win needed to have a good ride. Unless my english abandons me.
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| Croatia14 |
Posted on 04-11-2016 11:14
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Directeur Sportif
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Riis123 wrote:
Other notable rides: Wellens in Poland, Nibali on Risoul and maybe Sagan in Flanders.
This!
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 04-11-2016 11:14
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3472
Joined: 03-01-2008
PCM$: 1348.00
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Ollfardh wrote:
ringo182 wrote:
I think there is some confusion between ride of the year and race of the year.
P-R 2016 was possibly the Race of the year, and Boonen's efforts went a long way to making it the race of the year.
However, ultimately his efforts, no matter how great, were unsuccessful. Therefore he helped to create the race of the year, but it wasn't the ride of the year.
It's like football. How many times does a commentator say "if that had gone in it would have been goal of the season"? But it didn't go in so it is just a good chance that will be forgotten.
If Boonen had won it would have been ride of the year hands down. But he didn't win so it can't be considered ride of the year.
A goal is only a goal if it's a goal, there is no win needed to have a good ride. Unless my english abandons me.
No a win isn't needed to be a good ride. But a surely a win is needed to be "Ride of the Year".
At the risk of being Zabel'd again, Boonen was beaten by Hayman. So his wasn't the best ride of that day. Given the attributes of the two riders, and the riders in the final group, Boonen should have won hands down. But Hayman, at 37 years old, with a broken arm and half the ability of Boonen and many other riders managed to ride a race so perfect that he won the biggest one day race of the year. That is why Hayman deserves the ride of the year award.
"Ringo is exactly right", Shonak - 8 September 2016
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| Ollfardh |
Posted on 04-11-2016 11:30
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World Champion
Posts: 14563
Joined: 08-08-2011
PCM$: 9100.00
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ringo182 wrote:
Ollfardh wrote:
ringo182 wrote:
I think there is some confusion between ride of the year and race of the year.
P-R 2016 was possibly the Race of the year, and Boonen's efforts went a long way to making it the race of the year.
However, ultimately his efforts, no matter how great, were unsuccessful. Therefore he helped to create the race of the year, but it wasn't the ride of the year.
It's like football. How many times does a commentator say "if that had gone in it would have been goal of the season"? But it didn't go in so it is just a good chance that will be forgotten.
If Boonen had won it would have been ride of the year hands down. But he didn't win so it can't be considered ride of the year.
A goal is only a goal if it's a goal, there is no win needed to have a good ride. Unless my english abandons me.
No a win isn't needed to be a good ride. But a surely a win is needed to be "Ride of the Year".
At the risk of being Zabel'd again, Boonen was beaten by Hayman. So his wasn't the best ride of that day. Given the attributes of the two riders, and the riders in the final group, Boonen should have won hands down. But Hayman, at 37 years old, with a broken arm and half the ability of Boonen and many other riders managed to ride a race so perfect that he won the biggest one day race of the year. That is why Hayman deserves the ride of the year award.
No, a win would be needed to have the "win of the year". Any good ride deserves the ride of the year. Didn't Tony Martin win it a few years ago with that Vuelta solo where he go beaten in the last few meters?
Changed my sig, this was getting absurd.
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| ringo182 |
Posted on 04-11-2016 11:41
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Classics Specialist
Posts: 3472
Joined: 03-01-2008
PCM$: 1348.00
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Ollfardh wrote:
ringo182 wrote:
Ollfardh wrote:
ringo182 wrote:
I think there is some confusion between ride of the year and race of the year.
P-R 2016 was possibly the Race of the year, and Boonen's efforts went a long way to making it the race of the year.
However, ultimately his efforts, no matter how great, were unsuccessful. Therefore he helped to create the race of the year, but it wasn't the ride of the year.
It's like football. How many times does a commentator say "if that had gone in it would have been goal of the season"? But it didn't go in so it is just a good chance that will be forgotten.
If Boonen had won it would have been ride of the year hands down. But he didn't win so it can't be considered ride of the year.
A goal is only a goal if it's a goal, there is no win needed to have a good ride. Unless my english abandons me.
No a win isn't needed to be a good ride. But a surely a win is needed to be "Ride of the Year".
At the risk of being Zabel'd again, Boonen was beaten by Hayman. So his wasn't the best ride of that day. Given the attributes of the two riders, and the riders in the final group, Boonen should have won hands down. But Hayman, at 37 years old, with a broken arm and half the ability of Boonen and many other riders managed to ride a race so perfect that he won the biggest one day race of the year. That is why Hayman deserves the ride of the year award.
No, a win would be needed to have the "win of the year". Any good ride deserves the ride of the year. Didn't Tony Martin win it a few years ago with that Vuelta solo where he go beaten in the last few meters?
If that's the case then I stand corrected, and the award should be renamed "effort of the year"
However I still maintain that Hayman deserves the award over Boonen, given the respective attributes and expectations of the two riders.
Boonen has the attributes to win, was one of the favourites to win, but didn't win.
Hayman had never before shown the attributes to win, was never mentioned as having a chance of winning, but won.
I guess it comes down to interpretation. Does effort outweigh tactical perfection? Is loosing gallantly better then winning against the odds? Is a favourite dominating a race but ultimately falling short better then a complete underdog riding the race of his life, getting a bit of luck but ultimately pulling of one of the biggest upsets in the history of the race.
"Ringo is exactly right", Shonak - 8 September 2016
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| Shonak |
Posted on 04-11-2016 12:35
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Tour de France Champion
Posts: 15615
Joined: 16-07-2013
PCM$: 350.00
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Following your guys's logic, the ride of Quintana and Contador is less impressive because Brambilla won that one stage in Vuelta instead of them. Yet no one attributes the epicness of that day to him.
"It’s a little bit scary when Contador attacks." - Tommy V
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